Category:Undertale-Deltarune ontology - Revision history

Reversedragon: Magic glass is diegetic

2025-11-06T01:13:21Z

Magic glass is diegetic

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:13, 6 November 2025
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	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="F2">The shadow mantle is a bulletproof vest / [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fistful_of_Dollars Fistful of Dollars] theory -> the claim that the Shadow Mantle is a shield used for blocking projectiles in Deltarune's green Soul mode, but the discarded boss doesn't want the player finding it. edit: because it wasn't used by Susie in the green fight, this one is false.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="F2">The shadow mantle is a bulletproof vest / [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fistful_of_Dollars Fistful of Dollars] theory -> the claim that the Shadow Mantle is a shield used for blocking projectiles in Deltarune's green Soul mode, but the discarded boss doesn't want the player finding it. edit: because it wasn't used by Susie in the green fight, this one is false.

	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Magic glass is diegetic -> the claim that the "magic glass" that acts as an error handler in Undertale is an in-universe kind of magic, where the (speculated) fact anything can happen outside the boundaries of a game acts to actually create this nonsensical fix to Undertale's world. see: the vast field of darkness outside Deltarune's borders is a fountain of creative fantasy
	</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="M3">What did Ralsei say to Kris?		</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="M3">What did Ralsei say to Kris?
	</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Ralsei told Kris the Dark World is an Angel cage -> look closely at what Susie did right before Ralsei says this in the prison section. Susie attacks Lancer. given a particular situation she is forced to make Lancer the bad guy and fight him to the death. but if she is in the Dark World when this happens, nobody truly gets hurt even if she kills a Darkner. "so, that's why" we are opening Dark Fountains and fighting these seemingly meaningless antagonists: if we didn't do that, The Angel might take control of Kris and do that to the Light World. in this scenario Kris already knows about the ritual of keeping The Angel contained. they know The Angel's "special containment procedures".		</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Ralsei told Kris the Dark World is an Angel cage -> look closely at what Susie did right before Ralsei says this in the prison section. Susie attacks Lancer. given a particular situation she is forced to make Lancer the bad guy and fight him to the death. but if she is in the Dark World when this happens, nobody truly gets hurt even if she kills a Darkner. "so, that's why" we are opening Dark Fountains and fighting these seemingly meaningless antagonists: if we didn't do that, The Angel might take control of Kris and do that to the Light World. in this scenario Kris already knows about the ritual of keeping The Angel contained. they know The Angel's "special containment procedures".
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	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Each of the seven fallen humans represents an act of playing through Undertale -> kind of uncontroversial when totally figurative but becomes more important as a literal statement		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Each of the seven fallen humans represents an act of playing through Undertale -> kind of uncontroversial when totally figurative but becomes more important as a literal statement
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2"><b class="caps">Chara</b> reincarnated into the seven fallen humans -> not sure there is evidence for this but it's definitely an interesting idea		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2"><b class="caps">Chara</b> reincarnated into the seven fallen humans -> not sure there is evidence for this but it's definitely an interesting idea
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Undertale monsters exist through an act of stage magic -> the claim that the term "magic" refers to a special kind of illusionism which can apply to the creation of fictional works.
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">The crystals that guided monsters Home are a parallel to shadow crystals -> the argument here is that if monsters can use crystals to see, the crystals are bringing light to darkness, so they are doing something vaguely similar to the way Dark Worlds begin in darkness and generate their own kind of light.
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Sans was animated from a bone by an act of stage magic / Sans bleeds the blood of the other creature he came from -> a better theory than that Sans is Ness. real bones could contain bone marrow if they died very recently, so, a bone leaking blood is only a little silly. the real question is, which reality did the bone come from?
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">The Light World is an escape from something just as the Dark Worlds are / The Light World represents the idea that the real world is a social construct -> I like this one though I have no idea what the point of it would be to Toby Fox. it's similar to the idea of Adventure Time's different realities all springing out of imagination and ending with <b class="caps">Golb</b> — because none of them are technically the most real one anyway, the pillow world isn't exactly fake, it's equally as real or unreal.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: "stay away from her, you fiend!"

2025-11-06T00:27:43Z

"stay away from her, you fiend!"

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:27, 6 November 2025
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	</li><li class="field_fantasy" data-tradition="UTDR" value="618" data-dimension="S2">{{TTS\|tts=Rules Card\|Rouxls Kaard}} did not create the clock puzzle		</li><li class="field_fantasy" data-tradition="UTDR" value="618" data-dimension="S2">{{TTS\|tts=Rules Card\|Rouxls Kaard}} did not create the clock puzzle

	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"stay away from her, you fiend!" -> Tenna's encounter with or without Spamton where he is discovered to have a Pipis. the Pipis is referred to as "a certain person's special ???", which strangely connects to the Shadow Crystal being "like throwing away someone's ???". this scene is making a strange joke out of the Freudian concept of boundaries and suggesting that <em>secrets</em> are the hard line to be crossed that some people want to get into and some people would be really offended to see; the Pipis is found and the audience and Tenna both act like they just discovered pornography or something. this seems to be some kind of hint at what Shadow Crystals ("Glass") and the Black Shard are. this, and the fact that when Susie shattered the glass window <em>its contents was a secret</em>, at least to the Red Soul. we have heavy themes of secrets between two people and breaking the boundaries to obtain secrets in Deltarune.

	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Deltarune's secret death animation actually means that making attacks red makes them more powerful		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Deltarune's secret death animation actually means that making attacks red makes them more powerful

Reversedragon: serialized video game chapter

2025-11-05T09:03:33Z

serialized video game chapter

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:03, 5 November 2025
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	{{HueNumber\|Q7617}} <!-- en: Deltarune -->		{{HueNumber\|Q7617}} <!-- en: Deltarune -->
	</ol>		</ol>

	~~=== <cite>Deltarune</cite> chapters ===~~

	~~<ol class="hue clean reset">~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">serialized video game chapter~~
	~~</li></ol>~~

	== Proposed Items (Deltarune) ==		== Proposed Items (Deltarune) ==
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	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Toby Fox made Undertale "parasocial" for a reason		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Toby Fox made Undertale "parasocial" for a reason

	~~</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Deltarune is one big Angel cage~~
	</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Dess is merely hiding from the Angel / Dess isn't actually gone, she's hiding from The Angel -> if we accept that Deltarune is an Angel cage, then maybe the reason people don't talk about Dess is that they have to keep up the fake narrative she's missing so the player won't know what's actually happening and they can all buy time. by the time Dess actually reaches her goal, the player will feel bad for her instead of seeing her as a threat who set out to defeat and banish them, and might not fight back. alternatively, maybe something like this indeed happened but Dess failed halfway so now Kris has to do the same thing without ever letting the player catch on. it's a weird and funny coincidence that "December" sounds like a [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Cammy#Juni valid anti-Shadaloo agent name] in the context of <cite>Street Fighter</cite>: June, July, [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Decapre December]. someone who was once trapped, but now is secretly helping everyone else break out. is that intentional? I have absolutely no idea.		</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Dess is merely hiding from the Angel / Dess isn't actually gone, she's hiding from The Angel -> if we accept that Deltarune is an Angel cage, then maybe the reason people don't talk about Dess is that they have to keep up the fake narrative she's missing so the player won't know what's actually happening and they can all buy time. by the time Dess actually reaches her goal, the player will feel bad for her instead of seeing her as a threat who set out to defeat and banish them, and might not fight back. alternatively, maybe something like this indeed happened but Dess failed halfway so now Kris has to do the same thing without ever letting the player catch on. it's a weird and funny coincidence that "December" sounds like a [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Cammy#Juni valid anti-Shadaloo agent name] in the context of <cite>Street Fighter</cite>: June, July, [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Decapre December]. someone who was once trapped, but now is secretly helping everyone else break out. is that intentional? I have absolutely no idea.
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Asgore, Toriel, and Asriel form a trinity around the values of Undertale / Asgore, Toriel, and Asriel represent comparing a player's connection to a game to a believer's connection to religion -> sounds really out there at first but becomes much more obvious when you've seen Deltarune with its mentions of The Angel. also brings up an interesting contradiction: Asgore is at first presented as some kind of king of demons, but turns out to be more like the god of one religion reviled by someone else's.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Asgore, Toriel, and Asriel form a trinity around the values of Undertale / Asgore, Toriel, and Asriel represent comparing a player's connection to a game to a believer's connection to religion -> sounds really out there at first but becomes much more obvious when you've seen Deltarune with its mentions of The Angel. also brings up an interesting contradiction: Asgore is at first presented as some kind of king of demons, but turns out to be more like the god of one religion reviled by someone else's.

Reversedragon: "nothing keeping it at bay but my axe"

2025-11-05T07:41:15Z

"nothing keeping it at bay but my axe"

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:41, 5 November 2025
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	<ol class="hue clean reset">		<ol class="hue clean reset">
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">serialized video game chapter		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">serialized video game chapter

	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">further Deltarune chapters / Deltarune chapter 0 -> Deltarune chapters which are not listed on the chapter select screen. currently hypothetical.
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="Z">Deltarune Chapter 1~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="Z">Deltarune Chapter 2~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="Z">Deltarune Chapter 3~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="Z">Deltarune Chapter 4~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="Z">Deltarune Chapter 5 (unreleased)~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="Z">Deltarune Chapter 6 (unreleased)~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="Z">Deltarune Chapter 7 (unreleased)~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">Deltarune chapter and save menus -> filling a slot with something slightly important.~~
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">Deltarune credits sequence -> we can strongly guess there will be one looking at Undertale and the "gallery" window. whether it's at all important is the question. it might not be important at all. or there might be exactly one interesting credits presentation trope that makes it not totally useless to code here.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

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	</li><li class="field_fantasy" data-tradition="UTDR" value="618" data-dimension="S2">{{TTS\|tts=Rules Card\|Rouxls Kaard}} did not create the clock puzzle		</li><li class="field_fantasy" data-tradition="UTDR" value="618" data-dimension="S2">{{TTS\|tts=Rules Card\|Rouxls Kaard}} did not create the clock puzzle

	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"nothing keeping it at bay but my axe" -> cf. Varik~~
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"stay away from her, you fiend!" -> Tenna's encounter with or without Spamton where he is discovered to have a Pipis. the Pipis is referred to as "a certain person's special ???", which strangely connects to the Shadow Crystal being "like throwing away someone's ???". this scene is making a strange joke out of the Freudian concept of boundaries and suggesting that <em>secrets</em> are the hard line to be crossed that some people want to get into and some people would be really offended to see; the Pipis is found and the audience and Tenna both act like they just discovered pornography or something. this seems to be some kind of hint at what Shadow Crystals ("Glass") and the Black Shard are. this, and the fact that when Susie shattered the glass window <em>its contents was a secret</em>, at least to the Red Soul. we have heavy themes of secrets between two people and breaking the boundaries to obtain secrets in Deltarune.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"stay away from her, you fiend!" -> Tenna's encounter with or without Spamton where he is discovered to have a Pipis. the Pipis is referred to as "a certain person's special ???", which strangely connects to the Shadow Crystal being "like throwing away someone's ???". this scene is making a strange joke out of the Freudian concept of boundaries and suggesting that <em>secrets</em> are the hard line to be crossed that some people want to get into and some people would be really offended to see; the Pipis is found and the audience and Tenna both act like they just discovered pornography or something. this seems to be some kind of hint at what Shadow Crystals ("Glass") and the Black Shard are. this, and the fact that when Susie shattered the glass window <em>its contents was a secret</em>, at least to the Red Soul. we have heavy themes of secrets between two people and breaking the boundaries to obtain secrets in Deltarune.

Line 42:		Line 29:
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Toby Fox made Undertale "parasocial" for a reason		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Toby Fox made Undertale "parasocial" for a reason

	</li><li class="~~field_fantasy~~" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Deltarune is one big Angel cage		</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Deltarune is one big Angel cage
	</li><li class="~~field_fantasy~~" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Dess isn't actually gone, she's hiding from The Angel -> if we accept that Deltarune is an Angel cage, then maybe the reason people don't talk about Dess is that they have to keep up the fake narrative she's missing so the player won't know what's actually happening and they can all buy time. by the time Dess actually reaches her goal, the player will feel bad for her instead of seeing her as a threat who set out to defeat and banish them, and might not fight back. alternatively, maybe something like this indeed happened but Dess failed halfway so now Kris has to do the same thing without ever letting the player catch on. it's a weird and funny coincidence that "December" sounds like a [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Cammy#Juni valid anti-Shadaloo agent name] in the context of <cite>Street Fighter</cite>: June, July, [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Decapre December]. someone who was once trapped, but now is secretly helping everyone else break out. is that intentional? I have absolutely no idea.		</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Dess is merely hiding from the Angel / Dess isn't actually gone, she's hiding from The Angel -> if we accept that Deltarune is an Angel cage, then maybe the reason people don't talk about Dess is that they have to keep up the fake narrative she's missing so the player won't know what's actually happening and they can all buy time. by the time Dess actually reaches her goal, the player will feel bad for her instead of seeing her as a threat who set out to defeat and banish them, and might not fight back. alternatively, maybe something like this indeed happened but Dess failed halfway so now Kris has to do the same thing without ever letting the player catch on. it's a weird and funny coincidence that "December" sounds like a [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Cammy#Juni valid anti-Shadaloo agent name] in the context of <cite>Street Fighter</cite>: June, July, [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Decapre December]. someone who was once trapped, but now is secretly helping everyone else break out. is that intentional? I have absolutely no idea.
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Asgore, Toriel, and Asriel form a trinity around the values of Undertale / Asgore, Toriel, and Asriel represent comparing a player's connection to a game to a believer's connection to religion -> sounds really out there at first but becomes much more obvious when you've seen Deltarune with its mentions of The Angel. also brings up an interesting contradiction: Asgore is at first presented as some kind of king of demons, but turns out to be more like the god of one religion reviled by someone else's.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Asgore, Toriel, and Asriel form a trinity around the values of Undertale / Asgore, Toriel, and Asriel represent comparing a player's connection to a game to a believer's connection to religion -> sounds really out there at first but becomes much more obvious when you've seen Deltarune with its mentions of The Angel. also brings up an interesting contradiction: Asgore is at first presented as some kind of king of demons, but turns out to be more like the god of one religion reviled by someone else's.
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Asriel is the son of the Underground / Asriel is the son or avatar of the abstract Father of the Underground -> The Father would not literally be Asgore in this case even though Asgore has to be there to remind us of the concept of The Father versus The Son.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Asriel is the son of the Underground / Asriel is the son or avatar of the abstract Father of the Underground -> The Father would not literally be Asgore in this case even though Asgore has to be there to remind us of the concept of The Father versus The Son.

Reversedragon: Kris gained the Red Soul after dying

2025-11-05T05:19:34Z

Kris gained the Red Soul after dying

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:19, 5 November 2025
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	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

	~~=== Theories ===~~

	~~{{HueON}}~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="6629" data-dimension="S2">Kris gained the Red Soul after dying~~
	~~{{HueOFF}}~~

	== Proposed Items (Deltarune) ==		== Proposed Items (Deltarune) ==
Line 39:		Line 33:
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"stay away from her, you fiend!" -> Tenna's encounter with or without Spamton where he is discovered to have a Pipis. the Pipis is referred to as "a certain person's special ???", which strangely connects to the Shadow Crystal being "like throwing away someone's ???". this scene is making a strange joke out of the Freudian concept of boundaries and suggesting that <em>secrets</em> are the hard line to be crossed that some people want to get into and some people would be really offended to see; the Pipis is found and the audience and Tenna both act like they just discovered pornography or something. this seems to be some kind of hint at what Shadow Crystals ("Glass") and the Black Shard are. this, and the fact that when Susie shattered the glass window <em>its contents was a secret</em>, at least to the Red Soul. we have heavy themes of secrets between two people and breaking the boundaries to obtain secrets in Deltarune.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"stay away from her, you fiend!" -> Tenna's encounter with or without Spamton where he is discovered to have a Pipis. the Pipis is referred to as "a certain person's special ???", which strangely connects to the Shadow Crystal being "like throwing away someone's ???". this scene is making a strange joke out of the Freudian concept of boundaries and suggesting that <em>secrets</em> are the hard line to be crossed that some people want to get into and some people would be really offended to see; the Pipis is found and the audience and Tenna both act like they just discovered pornography or something. this seems to be some kind of hint at what Shadow Crystals ("Glass") and the Black Shard are. this, and the fact that when Susie shattered the glass window <em>its contents was a secret</em>, at least to the Red Soul. we have heavy themes of secrets between two people and breaking the boundaries to obtain secrets in Deltarune.

	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">level (Deltarune)~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">Q??55 Level of Violence (Undertale)~~
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Deltarune's secret death animation actually means that making attacks red makes them more powerful		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Deltarune's secret death animation actually means that making attacks red makes them more powerful

	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="F2">The shadow mantle is a bulletproof vest / [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fistful_of_Dollars Fistful of Dollars] theory -> the claim that the Shadow Mantle is a shield used for blocking projectiles in Deltarune's green Soul mode, but the discarded boss doesn't want the player finding it. edit: because it wasn't used by Susie in the green fight, this one is false.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="F2">The shadow mantle is a bulletproof vest / [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fistful_of_Dollars Fistful of Dollars] theory -> the claim that the Shadow Mantle is a shield used for blocking projectiles in Deltarune's green Soul mode, but the discarded boss doesn't want the player finding it. edit: because it wasn't used by Susie in the green fight, this one is false.

	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="M3">Why was Deltarune hard to make before Undertale? -> this could have a simple answer in terms of Deltarune being a longer game and so forth... or it could have a much more specific answer. could it be that Deltarune was genuinely supposed to be based on things <em>cut from Undertale</em> before Undertale was made?
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Magic glass is diegetic -> the claim that the "magic glass" that acts as an error handler in Undertale is an in-universe kind of magic, where the (speculated) fact anything can happen outside the boundaries of a game acts to actually create this nonsensical fix to Undertale's world. see: the vast field of darkness outside Deltarune's borders is a fountain of creative fantasy		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Magic glass is diegetic -> the claim that the "magic glass" that acts as an error handler in Undertale is an in-universe kind of magic, where the (speculated) fact anything can happen outside the boundaries of a game acts to actually create this nonsensical fix to Undertale's world. see: the vast field of darkness outside Deltarune's borders is a fountain of creative fantasy
	</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="M3">What did Ralsei say to Kris?		</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="M3">What did Ralsei say to Kris?
	</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Ralsei told Kris the Dark World is an Angel cage -> look closely at what Susie did right before Ralsei says this in the prison section. Susie attacks Lancer. given a particular situation she is forced to make Lancer the bad guy and fight him to the death. but if she is in the Dark World when this happens, nobody truly gets hurt even if she kills a Darkner. "so, that's why" we are opening Dark Fountains and fighting these seemingly meaningless antagonists: if we didn't do that, The Angel might take control of Kris and do that to the Light World. in this scenario Kris already knows about the ritual of keeping The Angel contained. they know The Angel's "special containment procedures".		</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Ralsei told Kris the Dark World is an Angel cage -> look closely at what Susie did right before Ralsei says this in the prison section. Susie attacks Lancer. given a particular situation she is forced to make Lancer the bad guy and fight him to the death. but if she is in the Dark World when this happens, nobody truly gets hurt even if she kills a Darkner. "so, that's why" we are opening Dark Fountains and fighting these seemingly meaningless antagonists: if we didn't do that, The Angel might take control of Kris and do that to the Light World. in this scenario Kris already knows about the ritual of keeping The Angel contained. they know The Angel's "special containment procedures".
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Varik is Ness -> a silly theory created by young Toby Fox during Earthbound Halloween Hack. there is not a lot of difference between Ares and Ness despite their very different fantasy (?) and suburban sci-fi settings, leading to the funny theory that one could just have turned into the other at some point. they should be different individuals with different lives, but how would you even know they weren't interchangeable? this seems to have intentionally led to the concept of Frisk getting displaced by Chara, and unintentionally led to "Sans is Ness" when matpat <em>almost</em> correctly saw the pattern but just barely overshot in the wrong direction.
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Varik is secretly afraid of monsters -> what seems to have led to the themes of prejudice in Undertale~~
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Toby Fox made Undertale "parasocial" for a reason		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Toby Fox made Undertale "parasocial" for a reason
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Undertale is already fiction within fiction~~
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2"><b class="caps">Chara</b> does the same thing to The Underground that The Player does to Kris or Varik [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-5lBec9lO4] -> very good catch. this is like noticing that Noelle is acting as "the angel" to the Dark World when she is ordered to clear it out; certain elements of Deltarune and maybe Undertale <em>do</em> reflect particular things the player could do to the world in things that the characters do to each other. note Noelle. also note Lancer being "forced to be the bad guy" in the Dark World's narrative when The Knight (Kris?) creates the Dark World. The Knight wields Kris to fight Lancer and Spade King, just like The Player or The Angel wields Kris to fight the fabled Knight, just like <b class="caps">Chara</b> wields Asgore to fight humans. this view of parallels rather implies the view that Deltarune is one big box to trap the player so they can't actually hurt anybody — Kris made up The Knight so the player would chase after this fake enemy and the fake characters in the Dark Worlds but could never target the people of the Light World. that also has disturbing implications for where the weird route is going: maybe the player really can break out of the box and hurt someone in the Light World.
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Deltarune is one big Angel cage		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Deltarune is one big Angel cage
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Dess isn't actually gone, she's hiding from The Angel -> if we accept that Deltarune is an Angel cage, then maybe the reason people don't talk about Dess is that they have to keep up the fake narrative she's missing so the player won't know what's actually happening and they can all buy time. by the time Dess actually reaches her goal, the player will feel bad for her instead of seeing her as a threat who set out to defeat and banish them, and might not fight back. alternatively, maybe something like this indeed happened but Dess failed halfway so now Kris has to do the same thing without ever letting the player catch on. it's a weird and funny coincidence that "December" sounds like a [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Cammy#Juni valid anti-Shadaloo agent name] in the context of <cite>Street Fighter</cite>: June, July, [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Decapre December]. someone who was once trapped, but now is secretly helping everyone else break out. is that intentional? I have absolutely no idea.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Dess isn't actually gone, she's hiding from The Angel -> if we accept that Deltarune is an Angel cage, then maybe the reason people don't talk about Dess is that they have to keep up the fake narrative she's missing so the player won't know what's actually happening and they can all buy time. by the time Dess actually reaches her goal, the player will feel bad for her instead of seeing her as a threat who set out to defeat and banish them, and might not fight back. alternatively, maybe something like this indeed happened but Dess failed halfway so now Kris has to do the same thing without ever letting the player catch on. it's a weird and funny coincidence that "December" sounds like a [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Cammy#Juni valid anti-Shadaloo agent name] in the context of <cite>Street Fighter</cite>: June, July, [https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Decapre December]. someone who was once trapped, but now is secretly helping everyone else break out. is that intentional? I have absolutely no idea.
Line 62:		Line 50:
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Undertale monsters exist through an act of stage magic -> the claim that the term "magic" refers to a special kind of illusionism which can apply to the creation of fictional works.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Undertale monsters exist through an act of stage magic -> the claim that the term "magic" refers to a special kind of illusionism which can apply to the creation of fictional works.
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">The crystals that guided monsters Home are a parallel to shadow crystals -> the argument here is that if monsters can use crystals to see, the crystals are bringing light to darkness, so they are doing something vaguely similar to the way Dark Worlds begin in darkness and generate their own kind of light.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">The crystals that guided monsters Home are a parallel to shadow crystals -> the argument here is that if monsters can use crystals to see, the crystals are bringing light to darkness, so they are doing something vaguely similar to the way Dark Worlds begin in darkness and generate their own kind of light.
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Golden flowers represent the world outside a console RPG -> this can be used with "<b class="caps">Chara</b> weaponized Asgore" to argue that Flowey metaphorically represents <b class="caps">Chara</b> transforming the innocent people of the RPG world into cynical outside-world style people in a kind of death of what they were. I like that interpretation a lot more than the interpretation that Flowey is only what happens when people exhaust the possibilities in a game. it provides an actual explanation for why Asriel would have died before the player even did anything: Undertale has history whether the player is there or not, and a whole different player "played" (deceived) the Underground in a very negative sense to give the result that "god is dead and <b class="caps">Chara</b> killed him". I also like the way this implies that a "touch grass" message isn't always productive because sometimes it's the real world that makes people terrible and letting them back into the material world to hurt people would actually be worse.
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Sans was animated from a bone by an act of stage magic / Sans bleeds the blood of the other creature he came from -> a better theory than that Sans is Ness. real bones could contain bone marrow if they died very recently, so, a bone leaking blood is only a little silly. the real question is, which reality did the bone come from?		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Sans was animated from a bone by an act of stage magic / Sans bleeds the blood of the other creature he came from -> a better theory than that Sans is Ness. real bones could contain bone marrow if they died very recently, so, a bone leaking blood is only a little silly. the real question is, which reality did the bone come from?
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Undertale is not actually making an "I believe that everybody" statement -> video creator remarks that Undertale's endings simply telling you to not do what <b class="caps">Chara</b> did in weaponizing Asriel and Asgore seem shallow and like basically they have not properly done a historical-materialist analysis of either the player or <b class="caps">Chara</b> — thus, it must actually be the case that there is something missing from the narrative of Undertale that correctly understands the notion of historical materialism. one of the single most Marxist things I have ever heard a probably non-Marxist Undertale theorizer say.
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">The Light World is an escape from something just as the Dark Worlds are / The Light World represents the idea that the real world is a social construct -> I like this one though I have no idea what the point of it would be to Toby Fox. it's similar to the idea of Adventure Time's different realities all springing out of imagination and ending with <b class="caps">Golb</b> — because none of them are technically the most real one anyway, the pillow world isn't exactly fake, it's equally as real or unreal.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">The Light World is an escape from something just as the Dark Worlds are / The Light World represents the idea that the real world is a social construct -> I like this one though I have no idea what the point of it would be to Toby Fox. it's similar to the idea of Adventure Time's different realities all springing out of imagination and ending with <b class="caps">Golb</b> — because none of them are technically the most real one anyway, the pillow world isn't exactly fake, it's equally as real or unreal.
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Ralsei's connection to The Angel parallels Asriel's connection to <b class="caps">Chara</b>~~

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Ralsei is the green crayon

2025-10-10T19:35:22Z

Ralsei is the green crayon

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:35, 10 October 2025
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	</li><li class="field_fantasy" data-tradition="UTDR" value="618" data-dimension="S2">{{TTS\|tts=Rules Card\|Rouxls Kaard}} did not create the clock puzzle		</li><li class="field_fantasy" data-tradition="UTDR" value="618" data-dimension="S2">{{TTS\|tts=Rules Card\|Rouxls Kaard}} did not create the clock puzzle
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" data-tradition="UTDR" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Ralsei and Flowey share themes -> it seems this has led some people to think Ralsei is Asriel. {{YouTube\|wpX8zsq2ses}}

	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"nothing keeping it at bay but my axe" -> cf. Varik		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"nothing keeping it at bay but my axe" -> cf. Varik
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	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="M3">Why was Deltarune hard to make before Undertale? -> this could have a simple answer in terms of Deltarune being a longer game and so forth... or it could have a much more specific answer. could it be that Deltarune was genuinely supposed to be based on things <em>cut from Undertale</em> before Undertale was made?		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="M3">Why was Deltarune hard to make before Undertale? -> this could have a simple answer in terms of Deltarune being a longer game and so forth... or it could have a much more specific answer. could it be that Deltarune was genuinely supposed to be based on things <em>cut from Undertale</em> before Undertale was made?
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Ralsei is Kris' horned headband~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Ralsei is the green crayon~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Ralsei is a drawing / Ralsei is Asriel's drawing~~
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Ralsei is Asriel's shedded fur -> an explanation for why Ralsei is able to be everywhere. maybe even an explanation for why Ralsei is affiliated with Gaster — he exists as a bunch of scattered shards, effectively. ...that also describes playing cards and spam emails. oh no.
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Magic glass is diegetic -> the claim that the "magic glass" that acts as an error handler in Undertale is an in-universe kind of magic, where the (speculated) fact anything can happen outside the boundaries of a game acts to actually create this nonsensical fix to Undertale's world. see: the vast field of darkness outside Deltarune's borders is a fountain of creative fantasy		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Magic glass is diegetic -> the claim that the "magic glass" that acts as an error handler in Undertale is an in-universe kind of magic, where the (speculated) fact anything can happen outside the boundaries of a game acts to actually create this nonsensical fix to Undertale's world. see: the vast field of darkness outside Deltarune's borders is a fountain of creative fantasy
	</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="M3">What did Ralsei say to Kris?		</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="M3">What did Ralsei say to Kris?

Reversedragon: /* Proposed Items (Deltarune) */ Rouxls Kaard did not create the clock puzzle

2025-10-03T00:54:05Z

Proposed Items (Deltarune): Rouxls Kaard did not create the clock puzzle

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:54, 3 October 2025
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	<ol class="hue clean reset">		<ol class="hue clean reset">

			</li><li class="field_fantasy" data-tradition="UTDR" value="618" data-dimension="S2">{{TTS\|tts=Rules Card\|Rouxls Kaard}} did not create the clock puzzle
			</li><li class="field_fantasy" data-tradition="UTDR" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Ralsei and Flowey share themes -> it seems this has led some people to think Ralsei is Asriel. {{YouTube\|wpX8zsq2ses}}

	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"nothing keeping it at bay but my axe" -> cf. Varik		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"nothing keeping it at bay but my axe" -> cf. Varik

Reversedragon: Tenna's word-art

2025-09-16T10:27:07Z

Tenna's word-art

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:27, 16 September 2025
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	<ol class="hue clean reset">		<ol class="hue clean reset">

	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">Tenna's word-art / Tenna putting fonts and images in dialogue boxes -> feels like a contribution to the theme of dialogue boxes getting a third level of artificial
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"nothing keeping it at bay but my axe" -> cf. Varik		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"nothing keeping it at bay but my axe" -> cf. Varik
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"stay away from her, you fiend!" -> Tenna's encounter with or without Spamton where he is discovered to have a Pipis. the Pipis is referred to as "a certain person's special ???", which strangely connects to the Shadow Crystal being "like throwing away someone's ???". this scene is making a strange joke out of the Freudian concept of boundaries and suggesting that <em>secrets</em> are the hard line to be crossed that some people want to get into and some people would be really offended to see; the Pipis is found and the audience and Tenna both act like they just discovered pornography or something. this seems to be some kind of hint at what Shadow Crystals ("Glass") and the Black Shard are. this, and the fact that when Susie shattered the glass window <em>its contents was a secret</em>, at least to the Red Soul. we have heavy themes of secrets between two people and breaking the boundaries to obtain secrets in Deltarune.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">"stay away from her, you fiend!" -> Tenna's encounter with or without Spamton where he is discovered to have a Pipis. the Pipis is referred to as "a certain person's special ???", which strangely connects to the Shadow Crystal being "like throwing away someone's ???". this scene is making a strange joke out of the Freudian concept of boundaries and suggesting that <em>secrets</em> are the hard line to be crossed that some people want to get into and some people would be really offended to see; the Pipis is found and the audience and Tenna both act like they just discovered pornography or something. this seems to be some kind of hint at what Shadow Crystals ("Glass") and the Black Shard are. this, and the fact that when Susie shattered the glass window <em>its contents was a secret</em>, at least to the Red Soul. we have heavy themes of secrets between two people and breaking the boundaries to obtain secrets in Deltarune.

Reversedragon: Elemental pairs / Shadow Crystals

2025-09-16T07:20:06Z

Elemental pairs / Shadow Crystals

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 </ol>
-== <cite>Deltarune</cite> ontology ==
+=== <cite>Deltarune</cite> chapters ===
 <ol class="hue clean reset">
 </li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">serialized video game chapter
@@ Line 35: / Line 21: @@
 </li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">Deltarune chapter and save menus  ->  filling a slot with something slightly important.
 </li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">Deltarune credits sequence  ->  we can strongly guess there will be one looking at Undertale and the "gallery" window. whether it's at all important is the question. it might not be important at all. or there might be exactly one interesting credits presentation trope that makes it not totally useless to code here.
 </li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">Tenna's word-art / Tenna putting fonts and images in dialogue boxes  ->  feels like a contribution to the theme of dialogue boxes getting a third level of artificial
@@ Line 43: / Line 41: @@
 </li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">Q??55 Level of Violence (Undertale)
 </li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S2">Deltarune's secret death animation actually means that making attacks red makes them more powerful
 </li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="F2">The shadow mantle is a bulletproof vest / [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fistful_of_Dollars Fistful of Dollars] theory  ->  the claim that the Shadow Mantle is a shield used for blocking projectiles in Deltarune's green Soul mode, but the discarded boss doesn't want the player finding it. edit: because it wasn't used by Susie in the green fight, this one is false.

Reversedragon: objectification (Deltarune)

2025-09-16T06:45:34Z

objectification (Deltarune)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:45, 16 September 2025
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	{{HueON}}		{{HueON}}
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="6618">[S] Man behind the tree (Deltarune)~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="6620">[S] The Angel (Deltarune)~~
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="6624">[S] eggs of unclear importance		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="6624">[S] eggs of unclear importance
	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="6625">[S] Shadow Crystals		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="6625">[S] Shadow Crystals
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="6626">[S] Seam~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="6627">[S] Jevil~~
	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="6628">[S] Spamton~~
	{{HueOFF}}		{{HueOFF}}

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	== Proposed Items (Deltarune) ==		== Proposed Items (Deltarune) ==

	~~{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound">~~
	~~{{HueNumber\|Q7617}}~~
	~~</ol>~~

	<ol class="hue clean reset">		<ol class="hue clean reset">

	~~</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">Asriel and eggs {{YouTube\|XSVkRG6V70s}} -> commentator noted that egg decorations were part of Asriel's memories.~~

	~~</li><li class="field_horror" value="6684">the final tragedy / subject of last prophecy panel~~

	</li><li class="field_horror element_empty" value="6697" data-dimension="S">getting instructions from a phone / "Mike!" (implied to be but not proved to be connected to phone) / "the phone kept ringing indefinitely" (Deltarune chapter 1) {{YouTube\|XSVkRG6V70s}}

	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">serialized video game chapter		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">serialized video game chapter

	~~</li><li class="field_horror" value="618" data-dimension="S">objectification (Deltarune)~~

	</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">further Deltarune chapters / Deltarune chapter 0 -> Deltarune chapters which are not listed on the chapter select screen. currently hypothetical.		</li><li class="field_fantasy" value="618" data-dimension="S">further Deltarune chapters / Deltarune chapter 0 -> Deltarune chapters which are not listed on the chapter select screen. currently hypothetical.
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	[[Category:Fictional series and metaseries ontologies]] ~~__NOTOC__~~		[[Category:Fictional series and metaseries ontologies]] {{ArticleTitle\|NoContents=y}}