Ontology:Q19,09 - Revision history

Reversedragon: put motifs into prototype's numbering

2025-07-30T00:05:43Z

put motifs into prototype's numbering

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:05, 30 July 2025
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	<!-- {{HueCSS}} --><ol class="hue clean">		<!-- {{HueCSS}} --><ol class="hue clean">
	</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="~~618~~" data-dimension="S2">We can only perceive psychical elements, not physical elements ~~-> the positivist core of empirio-criticism~~		</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="3860" data-dimension="S2">Sensation is a fence / We can only perceive psychical elements, not physical elements
	~~</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S2">Sensation is a fence -> yeah, it's more of a fuzzy boundary between a lawn and a road if it's anything~~		</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="3850" data-dimension="S">crossing from mental images into physical world
	</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="~~618~~" data-dimension="S">crossing from mental images into physical world		</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="3851" data-dimension="S2">Experiencing a unicorn doesn't make it real
	</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="~~618~~" data-dimension="S2">Experiencing a unicorn doesn't make it real ~~/ Regarding the whole world as qualia fails to explain where the world comes from~~		</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="3853" data-dimension="S2">If the brain was a liver you wouldn't see anything
	</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="~~618~~" data-dimension="S2">If the brain was a liver you wouldn't see anything / If the brain is a liver, you won't see anything / If the brain secretes consciousness like the liver secretes bile, that does not explain where external objects come from and how there are any external objects for people to see		</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="3852" data-dimension="S2">People's minds are not a single mind-plane
	</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="~~618~~" data-dimension="S2">People's minds are not a single mind-plane / We don't live in <cite>Deltarune</cite> / Idealism is unworkable because Stalin doesn't perceive reality through Trotsky / Stalin doesn't perceive reality through Trotsky / Vegeta doesn't perceive reality through Goku		</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="3855" data-dimension="S2">If we can only perceive sensations and not object models, there's no way to predict how they will connect
	</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="~~618~~" data-dimension="S2">If we can only perceive sensations and not object models, there's no way to predict how they will connect -> ~~somehow both a problem in Idealism and fiction~~		</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="3854" data-dimension="S2">Structuralist linguistics is better than empirio-criticism
			</li><li {{IS2/ES/class}} value="3849">Perceptions are names for objects

	</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S2">Structuralist linguistics is better than empirio-criticism -> I don't think this is much of a hot take. I think structuralism gets better when you see it specifically as ontology rather than language, but otherwise, yeah, it's literally better		</li><li {{IS1/MX/class}} value="3859" data-dimension="S">the earth was the experience of a worm
	</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S2">Inside the mind sensory information is indistinguishable from signifiers -> what I thought of instantly when Mach talked about "symbols". but somehow that wasn't what he was saying.

	</li><li {{IS1/MX/class}} value="~~618~~" data-dimension="S">the earth was the experience of a worm / prior to man the earth was the experience of a worm -> this one is violet because this thought experiment would get you all the way to meta-Marxism if you only did it with "the world before mainstream Marxism-Leninism" or "the world before Trotskyism". if Trotsky was only smart enough to be able to see a world where he hadn't been born and realize that for a Marxist theorist people are fungible and the actual world shouldn't be different we wouldn't be in this mess
	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: number list

2025-07-29T22:23:40Z

number list

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:23, 29 July 2025
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	{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>		{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li> {{ArticleTitle\|[Z] Materialism and Empirio-criticism (Lenin 1909) - ML / Q19,09}}
	<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_ML" data-dimension="Z" data-qid="~~1909~~" data-numbersign="200" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-lexeme="">[[Ontology:Q1909\|<cite>Materialism and Empirio-criticism</cite>]]<ins class="note author-year"> (Lenin 1909)</ins>{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude~~> <seo title="Materialism and Empirio-criticism (Lenin 1909) - ML / Z1 / Q'19'09" /~~>		<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_ML" data-dimension="Z" data-qid="19,09" data-numbersign="200" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-lexeme="">[[Ontology:Q1909\|<cite>Materialism and Empirio-criticism</cite>]]<ins class="note author-year"> (Lenin 1909)</ins>{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude>
	</li></ol><!-- duplication hint: copy fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q1909]] --> __NOTOC__		</li></ol><!-- duplication hint: copy fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q1909]] --> __NOTOC__

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	{{HueCSS}}<dl class="wikitable hue">		{{HueCSS}}<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| {{Template:Z1}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:Z1}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~{{Ontology:~~PPPA/L}}\|lang=en\| {{Ontology:Q1909}} \| [[E:Materialism and Empirio-criticism]] }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\|lang=en\| {{Ontology:Q1909}} \| [[E:Materialism and Empirio-criticism]] \| [[E:Materialism and Empirio-criticism (Lenin 1909)]] }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~{{Ontology:~~PPPA}}\|lang=en\| -- }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA\|lang=en\| -- }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~{{Ontology:~~P42}}\| exact or approximate publication date }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| exact or approximate publication date }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~{{Ontology:~~P56}}\| -- }} <!-- en: color swatch references -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| -- }} <!-- en: color swatch references -->
	{{~~HueClaim~~\|P=~~{{Ontology:~~P4}}\| materialist text }} <!-- en: case of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| materialist text }} <!-- en: case of -->
	~~{{HueClaim\|P=title (en)\| Materialism and empirio-criticism \|OP=citation style\| APA }}~~		{{HueClaim \|P=URL\| [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/ marxists.org] \| [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Mach#Empirio-criticism Empirio-criticism] }}
	~~{{HueClaim\|P=author\| Vladimir Lenin }}~~		{{HueClaim \|P=[[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand\|prototype]] notes\| a text that had textbook status in the Soviet Union. worth annotating entry with important motifs / propositions / Lexemes. }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=URL\| [https://en.~~wikipedia~~.org/~~wiki~~/~~Ernst_Mach#Empirio-criticism Empirio-criticism~~] }}
	~~{{HueClaim\|P=URL~~\| [https://~~www~~.~~marxists~~.org/~~archive/lenin/works/1908/mec~~/] }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=[[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand\|prototype]] notes\| a text that had textbook status in the Soviet Union. worth annotating entry with important motifs / propositions / Lexemes. }}
	</dl>		</dl>

	=== Bibliographic information ===		=== Bibliographic information (any edition) ===

	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim\|P=publication date\| -- }}		{{HueClaim\|P=author\| Vladimir Lenin }}
			{{HueClaim\|P=title (en)\| Materialism and empirio-criticism \|OP=citation style\| APA }}
			<!-- {{HueClaim\|P=publication date\| -- }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=edition number\| -- }}		{{HueClaim\|P=edition number\| -- }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=medium\| -- }}		{{HueClaim\|P=medium\| -- }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=page count\| -- \|OP=method\| greatest page number }}		{{HueClaim\|P=page count\| -- \|OP=method\| greatest page number }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=printed in\| -- }}		{{HueClaim\|P=printed in\| -- }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=ISBN\| -- }}		{{HueClaim\|P=ISBN\| -- }} -->
	</dl>		</dl>

	== Motifs ==		== Motifs ==

	<dl class="~~wikitable~~ hue">		<!-- {{HueCSS}} --><ol class="hue clean">
	{{~~HueRoster\|P~~={{~~Ontology:P115~~}}~~\| [F2] Inside the mind sensory information~~ is ~~indistinguishable from signifiers }} <!-- en: depicts proposition~~ ~~? -~~->		</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S2">We can only perceive psychical elements, not physical elements -> the positivist core of empirio-criticism
	{{~~HueRoster\|P~~={{~~Ontology:P115~~}}~~\| [~~S2] Regarding the whole world as qualia fails to explain where the world comes from / ~~Experiencing a unicorn doesn't make it real }}~~ <~~!-- en: depicts proposition ? -->~~		</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S2">Sensation is a fence -> yeah, it's more of a fuzzy boundary between a lawn and a road if it's anything
	{{~~HueRoster\|P=uses motif\| [S] crossing from mental images into physical world~~ }} ~~<!-- en: depicts proposition ? -~~->		</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S">crossing from mental images into physical world
	{{~~HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P115~~}}~~\| [~~S2] We don't live in <cite>Deltarune</cite> ~~/ People's minds are not a single mind-plane~~ / Idealism is unworkable because Stalin doesn't perceive reality through Trotsky }} <!-- ~~en: depicts proposition~~ ~~? -~~->		</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S2">Experiencing a unicorn doesn't make it real / Regarding the whole world as qualia fails to explain where the world comes from
	</dl>		</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S2">If the brain was a liver you wouldn't see anything / If the brain is a liver, you won't see anything / If the brain secretes consciousness like the liver secretes bile, that does not explain where external objects come from and how there are any external objects for people to see
			</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S2">People's minds are not a single mind-plane / We don't live in <cite>Deltarune</cite> / Idealism is unworkable because Stalin doesn't perceive reality through Trotsky / Stalin doesn't perceive reality through Trotsky / Vegeta doesn't perceive reality through Goku
			</li><li {{IS1/ML/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S2">If we can only perceive sensations and not object models, there's no way to predict how they will connect -> somehow both a problem in Idealism and fiction

			</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S2">Structuralist linguistics is better than empirio-criticism -> I don't think this is much of a hot take. I think structuralism gets better when you see it specifically as ontology rather than language, but otherwise, yeah, it's literally better
			</li><li {{IS1/ES/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S2">Inside the mind sensory information is indistinguishable from signifiers -> what I thought of instantly when Mach talked about "symbols". but somehow that wasn't what he was saying.

	* If the brain is a liver, you won't see anything		</li><li {{IS1/MX/class}} value="618" data-dimension="S">the earth was the experience of a worm / prior to man the earth was the experience of a worm -> this one is violet because this thought experiment would get you all the way to meta-Marxism if you only did it with "the world before mainstream Marxism-Leninism" or "the world before Trotskyism". if Trotsky was only smart enough to be able to see a world where he hadn't been born and realize that for a Marxist theorist people are fungible and the actual world shouldn't be different we wouldn't be in this mess
	* undialectical idealism, historical non-materialism, and class ~~non-analysis~~		</li></ol>
	* sensation is a fence
	* Structuralist linguistics is better than empirio-criticism
	* If we can only perceive sensations and not object models, there's no way to predict how they will connect -> ~~somehow both a problem in Idealism and fiction~~
	* we can only perceive psychical elements, not physical elements
	* United States people are born the ~~petty bourgeoisie, not~~ the ~~proletariat~~
	* prior to man the earth was the experience of a worm

	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==
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	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveRoute\| Mach \| Vladimir Lenin \| {{Ontology:Q1909}} }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES ?? -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{E:Q618/ES\|positivism}} \| Vladimir Lenin \| {{Ontology:Q1909}} }}
			{{WaveRoute\| {{E:Q618/ES\|Mach}} \| Vladimir Lenin \| {{Ontology:Q1909}} }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES ?? -->
	</dl>		</dl>


	[[Category:Materialism ontology]]		[[Category:Materialism ontology]]

Reversedragon: /* Motifs */ the earth was the experience of a worm

2025-07-29T10:42:25Z

Motifs: the earth was the experience of a worm

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:42, 29 July 2025
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	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P115}}\| [F2] Inside the mind sensory information is indistinguishable from signifiers }} <!-- en: depicts proposition ? -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P115}}\| [F2] Inside the mind sensory information is indistinguishable from signifiers }} <!-- en: depicts proposition ? -->
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P115}}\| [S2] Regarding the whole world as qualia fails to explain where the world comes from }} <!-- en: depicts proposition ? -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P115}}\| [S2] Regarding the whole world as qualia fails to explain where the world comes from / Experiencing a unicorn doesn't make it real }} <!-- en: depicts proposition ? -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=uses motif\| [S] crossing from mental images into physical world }} <!-- en: depicts proposition ? -->		{{HueRoster\|P=uses motif\| [S] crossing from mental images into physical world }} <!-- en: depicts proposition ? -->
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P115}}\| [S2] We don't live in <cite>Deltarune</cite> / People's minds are not a single mind-plane / Idealism is unworkable because Stalin doesn't perceive reality through Trotsky }} <!-- en: depicts proposition ? -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P115}}\| [S2] We don't live in <cite>Deltarune</cite> / People's minds are not a single mind-plane / Idealism is unworkable because Stalin doesn't perceive reality through Trotsky }} <!-- en: depicts proposition ? -->
	</dl>		</dl>

			* If the brain is a liver, you won't see anything
			* undialectical idealism, historical non-materialism, and class non-analysis
			* sensation is a fence
			* Structuralist linguistics is better than empirio-criticism
			* If we can only perceive sensations and not object models, there's no way to predict how they will connect -> somehow both a problem in Idealism and fiction
			* we can only perceive psychical elements, not physical elements
			* United States people are born the petty bourgeoisie, not the proletariat
			* prior to man the earth was the experience of a worm

	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==

Reversedragon: /* Core characteristics */ page alias: Materialism and Empirio-criticism

2025-07-29T08:08:22Z

Core characteristics: page alias: Materialism and Empirio-criticism

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:08, 29 July 2025
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	== Core characteristics ==		== Core characteristics ==

	<dl class="wikitable hue">		{{HueCSS}}<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| {{Template:Z1}} }}		{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| {{Template:Z1}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:PPPA/L}}\|lang=en\| {{Ontology:Q1909}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:PPPA/L}}\|lang=en\| {{Ontology:Q1909}} \| [[E:Materialism and Empirio-criticism]] }}
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:PPPA}}\|lang=en\| -- }}		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:PPPA}}\|lang=en\| -- }}
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| exact or approximate publication date }}		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| exact or approximate publication date }}

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page Ontology:Q1909 to Ontology:Q19,09: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

2025-07-29T08:06:22Z

Reversedragon moved page Ontology:Q1909 to Ontology:Q19,09: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

← Older revision	Revision as of 08:06, 29 July 2025
(No difference)

Reversedragon: combination; browser title

2025-06-29T07:52:52Z

combination; browser title

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:52, 29 June 2025
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	{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>		{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>
	<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_ML" data-dimension="Z" data-qid="1909" data-numbersign="200" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-lexeme="">[[Ontology:Q1909\|<cite>Materialism and Empirio-criticism</cite>]]<ins class="note author-year"> (Lenin 1909)</ins>{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> <seo title="" />		<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_ML" data-dimension="Z" data-qid="1909" data-numbersign="200" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-lexeme="">[[Ontology:Q1909\|<cite>Materialism and Empirio-criticism</cite>]]<ins class="note author-year"> (Lenin 1909)</ins>{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> <seo title="Materialism and Empirio-criticism (Lenin 1909) - ML / Z1 / Q'19'09" />
	</li></ol><!-- duplication hint: copy fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q1909]] --> __NOTOC__		</li></ol><!-- duplication hint: copy fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q1909]] --> __NOTOC__

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	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| {{Template:Z1}} }}		{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| {{Template:Z1}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~label (~~en)\| {{Ontology:Q1909}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:PPPA/L}}\|lang=en\| {{Ontology:Q1909}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~alias (~~en)\| -- }}		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:PPPA}}\|lang=en\| -- }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~QID references~~\| exact or approximate publication date }}		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| exact or approximate publication date }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~color swatch references~~\| -- }} <!-- en: color swatch references -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P56}}\| -- }} <!-- en: color swatch references -->
	{{HueClaim\|P={{Ontology:P4}}\| materialist text }} <!-- en: case of -->		{{HueClaim\|P={{Ontology:P4}}\| materialist text }} <!-- en: case of -->
	{{HueClaim\|P=title (en)\| Materialism and empirio-criticism \|OP=citation style\| APA }}		{{HueClaim\|P=title (en)\| Materialism and empirio-criticism \|OP=citation style\| APA }}
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	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==

	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveBuildNone\| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES ?? -->		{{WaveBuildNone\| -- \| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES ?? -->
			</dl>

			=== Wavebuilder characterizations ===

			<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
			{{WaveRoute\| Mach \| Vladimir Lenin \| {{Ontology:Q1909}} }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES ?? -->
	</dl>		</dl>


	[[Category:Materialism ontology]]		[[Category:Materialism ontology]]

Reversedragon: copy fake Item from Q1895; cr. 2025-06-28T08:52:34Z

2025-06-28T10:49:08Z

copy fake Item from Q1895; cr. 2025-06-28T08:52:34Z

New page

{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>
<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_ML" data-dimension="Z" data-qid="1909" data-numbersign="200" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-lexeme="">[[Ontology:Q1909|<cite>Materialism and Empirio-criticism</cite>]]<ins class="note author-year"> (Lenin 1909)</ins>{{WaveScore|sum=1|quilt=1|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> <seo title="" />
</li></ol> __NOTOC__

== Core characteristics ==

<dl class="wikitable hue">
{{HueClaim|P=item type| {{Template:Z1}} }}
{{HueRoster|P=label (en)| {{Ontology:Q1909}} }}
{{HueRoster|P=alias (en)| -- }}
{{HueRoster|P=QID references| exact or approximate publication date }}
{{HueRoster|P=color swatch references| -- }} 
{{HueClaim|P={{Ontology:P4}}| materialist text }} 
{{HueClaim|P=title (en)| Materialism and empirio-criticism |OP=citation style| APA }}
{{HueClaim|P=author| Vladimir Lenin }}
{{HueClaim|P=URL| [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Mach#Empirio-criticism Empirio-criticism] }}
{{HueClaim|P=URL| [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/] }}
{{HueClaim|P=[[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand|prototype]] notes| a text that had textbook status in the Soviet Union. worth annotating entry with important motifs / propositions / Lexemes. }}
</dl>

=== Bibliographic information ===

<dl class="wikitable hue">
{{HueClaim|P=publication date| -- }}
{{HueClaim|P=edition number| -- }}
{{HueClaim|P=medium| -- }}
{{HueClaim|P=page count| -- |OP=method| greatest page number }}
{{HueClaim|P=printed in| -- }}
{{HueClaim|P=ISBN| -- }}
</dl>

== Motifs ==

<dl class="wikitable hue">
{{HueRoster|P={{Ontology:P115}}| [F2] Inside the mind sensory information is indistinguishable from signifiers }} 
{{HueRoster|P={{Ontology:P115}}| [S2] Regarding the whole world as qualia fails to explain where the world comes from }} 
{{HueRoster|P=uses motif| [S] crossing from mental images into physical world }} 
{{HueRoster|P={{Ontology:P115}}| [S2] We don't live in <cite>Deltarune</cite> / People's minds are not a single mind-plane / Idealism is unworkable because Stalin doesn't perceive reality through Trotsky }} 
</dl>

== Wavebuilder combinations ==

<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">
{{WaveBuildNone| -- | -- }} 
</dl>

[[Category:Materialism ontology]]