Ontology:Q29,44 - Revision history

Reversedragon: formatting - edit from 2026-01-01T12:23:34H

2026-02-13T11:11:03Z

formatting - edit from 2026-01-01T12:23:34H

Reversedragon: labels

2025-08-18T05:51:39Z

labels

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:51, 18 August 2025
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	{{~~HueCSS~~}}<~~ol class="hue clean compound"><li~~>		{{ArticleTitle\|[S2] Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers - MX - Q29,44}}
	<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="29,44" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q29,44\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q29,44\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1\|enddfn=1}}</onlyinclude>		<includeonly><onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="29,44" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q29,44\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q29,44\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1\|enddfn=1}}</onlyinclude></includeonly><!--
	</li><~~/ol~~><!-- duplication: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q29,44]] --> __NOTOC__		-->{{HueNumberPreview\|{{E:Q29,44}}}}<!-- duplication hint: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q29,44]] --> __NOTOC__

	== Core characteristics ==		== Core characteristics ==
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	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{E:Q2944}} \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} \| [[E:~~Trotskyists are the new spherical cows\|~~Trotskyists are the new spherical cows]] }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{E:Q2944}} \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} \| [[E:Trotskyists are the new spherical cows]] }}
	{{HueClaim \|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history]] }}		{{HueClaim \|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history]] }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P42~~\| 4 as Trotskyist number~~ \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42/BB\| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: shares thematic block -->
			{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| 4 as Trotskyist number }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->
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	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| ~~Trotskyists are the new spherical cows~~ }} <!-- en: From ?? ?? -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} }} <!-- en: From Leon Trotsky ?? Trotskyists are the new spherical cows -->
	{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: From jamming proposition ~~Leon Trotsky~~ -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: From Leon Trotsky jamming proposition -->
	</dl>		</dl>

Reversedragon: sense labels

2025-08-18T05:23:50Z

sense labels

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:23, 18 August 2025
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	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{~~Ontology~~:Q2944}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{E:Q2944}} \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} \| [[E:Trotskyists are the new spherical cows\|Trotskyists are the new spherical cows]] }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history~~]] \| [[E:Trotskyists are the new spherical cows\|Trotskyists are the new spherical cows~~]] }}		{{HueClaim \|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history]] }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~subset of~~\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~instance of~~\| {{Ontology:Q941}} \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: instance of jamming proposition meta-Marxist hypothesis -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| {{Ontology:Q941}} \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: instance of jamming proposition meta-Marxist hypothesis -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~superset of~~\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~appears in work~~\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P14\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=has application as Property\| {{Ontology:P204}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=has application as Property\| {{Ontology:P204}} }}
	</dl>		</dl>

Reversedragon: page aliases

2025-08-13T10:30:04Z

page aliases

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:30, 13 August 2025
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	{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>		{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>
	<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="~~2944~~" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[~~Ontology~~:~~{{{1}}}~~\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[~~Ontology~~:~~Q2944~~\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}~~</dfn>~~</onlyinclude> ~~__NOTOC__~~		<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="29,44" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q29,44\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q29,44\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1\|enddfn=1}}</onlyinclude>
	</li></ol><!-- duplication: ~~see table~~ -->		</li></ol><!-- duplication: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q29,44]] --> __NOTOC__

	== ~~Characteristics in draft ==~~		== Core characteristics ==

	~~=== Properties =~~==

	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are }}		{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history]] \| [[E:Trotskyists are the new spherical cows\|Trotskyists are the new spherical cows]] }}
	~~{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)~~\| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| Trotsky model (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	~~{{HueClaim~~\|~~P=alias (en)~~\| Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history \| Trotskyists are the new spherical cows }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~{{Ontology:~~P42}}\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| ~~MDem hypothesis~~ }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~{{Ontology:~~P56}}\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=subset of\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->		{{HueRoster\|P=subset of\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=instance of\| {{Ontology:Q941}} \| ~~MDem hypothesis~~ }} <!-- en: instance of jamming proposition -->		{{HueRoster\|P=instance of\| {{Ontology:Q941}} \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: instance of jamming proposition meta-Marxist hypothesis -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=superset of\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->		{{HueRoster\|P=superset of\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->		{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=has application as Property\| {{Ontology:P204}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=has application as Property\| {{Ontology:P204}} }}
	~~{{HueRoster\|P=duplication hint\| <code>copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/</code>{{REVISIONID}}<code>\|Q2944]]</code> }}~~
	</dl>		</dl>

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	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==

	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveBuild\| meta-ontology \| {{~~Ontology~~:Q92}} }} <!-- en: ~~WITH~~ ?? ~~PRODUCES~~ meta-Marxism -->		{{WaveBuild\| {{E:Q29,44}} \| meta-ontology \| {{E:Q92}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? meta-Marxism -->
	{{WaveBuild\| {{~~Ontology~~:P200}} \| {{~~Ontology~~:P204}} }} <!-- en: ~~WITH~~ communication rating level ~~PRODUCES~~ "Trotsky test" -->		{{WaveBuild\| {{E:Q29,44}} \| {{E:P200}} \| {{E:P204}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces communication rating level "Trotsky test" -->
	</dl>		</dl>

	== ~~Characterizations~~ ==		=== Wavebuilder characterizations ===

	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| Trotskyists are the new spherical cows }} <!-- en: ~~FROM~~ ?? ?? -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| Trotskyists are the new spherical cows }} <!-- en: From ?? ?? -->
	{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: ~~FROM~~ jamming proposition Leon Trotsky -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: From jamming proposition Leon Trotsky -->
	</dl>		</dl>

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	How can you properly comply with Marxism-Leninism while being Trotsky? Would Trotsky truly be able to construct a Trotskyist workers' state over large regions of the world without it falling apart if other Trotskyists think his model is wrong? If half the United States was composed of center-Liberals and the other half was composed of Trotskyists, would Liberalism function the same way it does when half of the population is Tories? If Existentialism thinks The Subject is sacred and everyone must tolerate and appreciate everyone else's ideology and culture, doesn't that mean that by backing Trotsky against the Soviet Union Existentialists are obligated to support people actually trying to build Trotskyist workers' states over part of the world and get rid of Liberalism? If we imagine the afterlife was a real place, what afterlife would Trotsky go to, and by what moral standards would that be determined? If Trotsky is born in the Soviet Union and those are the people who are most like him, but he still doesn't really fit in there and he thinks that the people of the Soviet Union are not doing what's morally right, but the people of the United States don't like Leninists of any kind and largely don't see him as able to do what's morally right, how can he even know how to do the right thing and be a good person without a group of people to fit into? Has everyone been conceptualizing morality and ethics wrong, and should we instead be judging Trotskyites by their ability to fit into the social structure and moral values of a hypothetical Trotskyist workers' state? Is "Trotskyist" actually a nationality or cultural group? If various periods of Existentialism are obsessed with picking apart prejudices but they would never want to construct a Trotskyist workers' state anywhere, can you level a claim of anti-Trotskyist xenophobia against them by their own standards and call them out for not deconstructing all their [[redlink - the postcolonial project is smashing signs\|anti-Trotskyist signs]]? If Trotsky believes the Soviet Union has been doing everything wrong, but he managed to get a Trotskyist workers' state built somewhere else and he made most of the same mistakes, would he effectively have also been calling out himself the first time around? If Trotsky is unsatisfied with the Soviet Union does it imply there is a particular structural composition of things which would actually leave him satisfied, and thus which would logically be the actual definition of Trotskyism? If different Trotskyist parties are secretly imagining different results, is Trotskyism actually multiple things rather than one thing? If Trotskyism is actually multiple ideologies with multiple corresponding results, then could they ever successfully form a Fourth International without first realizing they are entirely different Marxisms? If Stalin and Trotsky will always construct two separate countries even if Trotsky succeeds, then can there ever even be such a thing as a single world proletariat, or are there always multiple proletariats pursuing multiple separate Marxisms that have to form a Communist International around the agreement to tolerate each other as separate unique objects with totally different ideologies?		How can you properly comply with Marxism-Leninism while being Trotsky? Would Trotsky truly be able to construct a Trotskyist workers' state over large regions of the world without it falling apart if other Trotskyists think his model is wrong? If half the United States was composed of center-Liberals and the other half was composed of Trotskyists, would Liberalism function the same way it does when half of the population is Tories? If Existentialism thinks The Subject is sacred and everyone must tolerate and appreciate everyone else's ideology and culture, doesn't that mean that by backing Trotsky against the Soviet Union Existentialists are obligated to support people actually trying to build Trotskyist workers' states over part of the world and get rid of Liberalism? If we imagine the afterlife was a real place, what afterlife would Trotsky go to, and by what moral standards would that be determined? If Trotsky is born in the Soviet Union and those are the people who are most like him, but he still doesn't really fit in there and he thinks that the people of the Soviet Union are not doing what's morally right, but the people of the United States don't like Leninists of any kind and largely don't see him as able to do what's morally right, how can he even know how to do the right thing and be a good person without a group of people to fit into? Has everyone been conceptualizing morality and ethics wrong, and should we instead be judging Trotskyites by their ability to fit into the social structure and moral values of a hypothetical Trotskyist workers' state? Is "Trotskyist" actually a nationality or cultural group? If various periods of Existentialism are obsessed with picking apart prejudices but they would never want to construct a Trotskyist workers' state anywhere, can you level a claim of anti-Trotskyist xenophobia against them by their own standards and call them out for not deconstructing all their [[redlink - the postcolonial project is smashing signs\|anti-Trotskyist signs]]? If Trotsky believes the Soviet Union has been doing everything wrong, but he managed to get a Trotskyist workers' state built somewhere else and he made most of the same mistakes, would he effectively have also been calling out himself the first time around? If Trotsky is unsatisfied with the Soviet Union does it imply there is a particular structural composition of things which would actually leave him satisfied, and thus which would logically be the actual definition of Trotskyism? If different Trotskyist parties are secretly imagining different results, is Trotskyism actually multiple things rather than one thing? If Trotskyism is actually multiple ideologies with multiple corresponding results, then could they ever successfully form a Fourth International without first realizing they are entirely different Marxisms? If Stalin and Trotsky will always construct two separate countries even if Trotsky succeeds, then can there ever even be such a thing as a single world proletariat, or are there always multiple proletariats pursuing multiple separate Marxisms that have to form a Communist International around the agreement to tolerate each other as separate unique objects with totally different ideologies?

	Ask enough questions about Trotsky, and you ultimately end up with meta-Marxism: the study of ideologies as [[~~redlink - L??? Bauplan~~\|parallel hypothetical structures]] that realize themselves into [[~~redlink - L???~~ Social-Philosophical-Material System\|material objects]], and of how [[Ontology:Q2970\|living individuals]] stochastically or deliberately assemble themselves into subpopulations and then into bigger populations. In practice every question about Trotsky actually turns out to be a question not just about Trotsky, but about how Trotsky interacts with the other things around him. This is the key. Any question about Trotsky can be used to introduce the notion that reality is actually made up of plural forces in contradiction — something which by now is often bizarrely forgotten even in a lot of Marxist analysis. If you can't imagine a particular Marxist theorist giving even a <em>conceivable</em> answer for how one could get Trotsky or Stalin to integrate into the other's vision of world Bolshevism or work with the other against world capitalism, there are some questions you should be asking that party. If an Existentialist proposition about factions or prejudices or "social balance" sounds like something is off, try replacing the central characters with Trotsky and Stalin, and you might begin to see where the error is.		Ask enough questions about Trotsky, and you ultimately end up with meta-Marxism: the study of ideologies as [[E:civilizational shape\|parallel hypothetical structures]] that realize themselves into [[Term:Social-Philosophical-Material System\|material objects]], and of how [[Ontology:Q2970\|living individuals]] stochastically or deliberately assemble themselves into subpopulations and then into bigger populations. In practice every question about Trotsky actually turns out to be a question not just about Trotsky, but about how Trotsky interacts with the other things around him. This is the key. Any question about Trotsky can be used to introduce the notion that reality is actually made up of plural forces in contradiction — something which by now is often bizarrely forgotten even in a lot of Marxist analysis. If you can't imagine a particular Marxist theorist giving even a <em>conceivable</em> answer for how one could get Trotsky or Stalin to integrate into the other's vision of world Bolshevism or work with the other against world capitalism, there are some questions you should be asking that party. If an Existentialist proposition about factions or prejudices or "social balance" sounds like something is off, try replacing the central characters with Trotsky and Stalin, and you might begin to see where the error is.

	Finally: hypothetical propositions like these are not meant to be in denial of the real damage caused by the 1930s Trotskyite conspiracy, or the statement that it deliberately killed officials and attacked Soviet civilization. The point to be made in thought experiments of this kind is that even groups of people who kill others in wars or conspiracies are still human beings, who still have their own needs and goals they realize by building civilization. Many people in the United States resort to calling Che Guevara "a terrorist" in reference to the fact the Latin America region was experiencing a two-sided conflict between the united [[~~redlink -~~ Filament effect\|Filament-axis]] of First World armies and a tiny Marxist force that came up with an unlikely method to wage war on them for national independence. History is a two-sided affair where multiple groups of people all have experiences, but sometimes people kill each other over what amounts to the arrangement of graphs. It's never possible to get the full story just by listening to some particular [[redlink - ~~S2 society~~ is just one big group of friends\|socially-linked group of friends]] in one country talk about the rest of the world. But, if there happened to be both bourgeois Filaments and nominally Leninist factions people had neglected to form prejudices about within the same geographic and conceptual spheres, such people might find it harder to control the narrative.		Finally: hypothetical propositions like these are not meant to be in denial of the real damage caused by the 1930s Trotskyite conspiracy, or the statement that it deliberately killed officials and attacked Soviet civilization. The point to be made in thought experiments of this kind is that even groups of people who kill others in wars or conspiracies are still human beings, who still have their own needs and goals they realize by building civilization. Many people in the United States resort to calling Che Guevara "[[E:Che Guevara ruined my life\|a terrorist]]" in reference to the fact the Latin America region was experiencing a two-sided conflict between the united [[Term:Filament effect\|Filament-axis]] of First World armies and a tiny Marxist force that came up with an unlikely method to wage war on them for national independence. History is a two-sided affair where multiple groups of people all have experiences, but sometimes people kill each other over what amounts to the arrangement of graphs. It's never possible to get the full story just by listening to some particular [[redlink - Society is just one big group of friends\|socially-linked group of friends]] in one country talk about the rest of the world. But, if there happened to be both bourgeois Filaments and nominally Leninist factions people had neglected to form prejudices about within the same geographic and conceptual spheres, such people might find it harder to control the narrative.


	[[Category:Meta-ontology ontology]] [[Category:Meta-Marxist hypotheses ontology]]		[[Category:Meta-ontology ontology]] [[Category:Meta-Marxist hypotheses ontology]]

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page Ontology:Q2944 to Ontology:Q29,44: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

2025-08-02T02:01:37Z

Reversedragon moved page Ontology:Q2944 to Ontology:Q29,44: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

← Older revision	Revision as of 02:01, 2 August 2025
(No difference)

Reversedragon: combination: assume a spherical cow

2025-06-13T13:27:42Z

combination: assume a spherical cow

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:27, 13 June 2025
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	{{HueCSS}}~~<!--~~		{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>
	~~-->~~<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>		<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="2944" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[Ontology:{{{1}}}\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[Ontology:Q2944\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> __NOTOC__
	<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="2944" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[Ontology:{{{1}}}\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[Ontology:Q2944\|~~Applying~~ any claim ~~to Trotsky~~ eventually yields ~~the correct~~ answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> __NOTOC__
	</li></ol><!-- duplication: see table -->		</li></ol><!-- duplication: see table -->

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	{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}		{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are }}		{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| Trotsky model (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) }}		{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| Trotsky model (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) }}
			{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history \| Trotskyists are the new spherical cows }}
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| MDem hypothesis }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| MDem hypothesis }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P56}}\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P56}}\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
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	{{WaveBuild\| meta-ontology \| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES meta-Marxism -->		{{WaveBuild\| meta-ontology \| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES meta-Marxism -->
	{{WaveBuild\| {{Ontology:P200}} \| {{Ontology:P204}} }} <!-- en: WITH communication rating level PRODUCES "Trotsky test" -->		{{WaveBuild\| {{Ontology:P200}} \| {{Ontology:P204}} }} <!-- en: WITH communication rating level PRODUCES "Trotsky test" -->
			</dl>

			== Characterizations ==

			<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">
			{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| Trotskyists are the new spherical cows }} <!-- en: FROM ?? ?? -->
			{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: FROM jamming proposition Leon Trotsky -->
	</dl>		</dl>

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	There are many, many sub-examples of how to use this method of "force other philosophical claims to explain Trotsky" — so many that this one concept alone formed the basis for a great stack of MDem scraps, and became one of the central themes of the text, after the more universal theme of "[[redlink - postification\|study all other philosophies and incorporate the correct answers to all their questions]]".		There are many, many sub-examples of how to use this method of "force other philosophical claims to explain Trotsky" — so many that this one concept alone formed the basis for a great stack of MDem scraps, and became one of the central themes of the text, after the more universal theme of "[[redlink - postification\|study all other philosophies and incorporate the correct answers to all their questions]]".
	How can you properly comply with Marxism-Leninism while being Trotsky? Would Trotsky truly be able to construct a Trotskyist workers' state over large regions of the world without it falling apart if other Trotskyists think his model is wrong? If half the United States was composed of center-Liberals and the other half was composed of Trotskyists, would Liberalism function the same way it does when half of the population is Tories? If Existentialism thinks The Subject is sacred and everyone must tolerate and appreciate everyone else's ideology and culture, doesn't that mean that by backing Trotsky against the Soviet Union Existentialists are obligated to support people actually trying to build Trotskyist workers' states over part of the world and get rid of Liberalism? If we imagine the afterlife was a real place, what afterlife would Trotsky go to, and by what moral standards would that be determined? If Trotsky is born in the Soviet Union and those are the people who are most like him, but he still doesn't really fit in there and he thinks that the people of the Soviet Union are not doing what's morally right, but the people of the United States don't like Leninists of any kind and largely don't see him as able to do what's morally right, how can he even know how to do the right thing and be a good person without a group of people to fit into? Has everyone been conceptualizing morality and ethics wrong, and should we instead be judging Trotskyites by their ability to fit into the social structure and moral values of a hypothetical Trotskyist workers' state? Is "Trotskyist" actually a nationality or cultural group? If various periods of Existentialism are obsessed with picking apart prejudices but they would never want to construct a Trotskyist workers' state anywhere, can you level a claim of anti-Trotskyist xenophobia against them by their own standards and call them out for not deconstructing all their anti-Trotskyist signs? If Trotsky believes the Soviet Union has been doing everything wrong, but he managed to get a Trotskyist workers' state built somewhere else and he made most of the same mistakes, would he effectively have also been calling out himself? If Trotsky is unsatisfied with the Soviet Union does it imply there is a particular structural composition of things which would actually leave him satisfied, and thus which would logically be the actual definition of Trotskyism? If different Trotskyist parties are secretly imagining different results, is Trotskyism actually multiple things rather than one thing? If Trotskyism is actually multiple ideologies with multiple corresponding results, then could they ever successfully form a Fourth International without first realizing they are entirely different Marxisms? If Stalin and Trotsky will always construct two separate countries even if Trotsky succeeds, then can there ever even be such a thing as a single world proletariat, or are there always multiple proletariats pursuing multiple separate Marxisms that have to form a Communist International around the agreement to tolerate each other as separate unique objects with totally different ideologies?		How can you properly comply with Marxism-Leninism while being Trotsky? Would Trotsky truly be able to construct a Trotskyist workers' state over large regions of the world without it falling apart if other Trotskyists think his model is wrong? If half the United States was composed of center-Liberals and the other half was composed of Trotskyists, would Liberalism function the same way it does when half of the population is Tories? If Existentialism thinks The Subject is sacred and everyone must tolerate and appreciate everyone else's ideology and culture, doesn't that mean that by backing Trotsky against the Soviet Union Existentialists are obligated to support people actually trying to build Trotskyist workers' states over part of the world and get rid of Liberalism? If we imagine the afterlife was a real place, what afterlife would Trotsky go to, and by what moral standards would that be determined? If Trotsky is born in the Soviet Union and those are the people who are most like him, but he still doesn't really fit in there and he thinks that the people of the Soviet Union are not doing what's morally right, but the people of the United States don't like Leninists of any kind and largely don't see him as able to do what's morally right, how can he even know how to do the right thing and be a good person without a group of people to fit into? Has everyone been conceptualizing morality and ethics wrong, and should we instead be judging Trotskyites by their ability to fit into the social structure and moral values of a hypothetical Trotskyist workers' state? Is "Trotskyist" actually a nationality or cultural group? If various periods of Existentialism are obsessed with picking apart prejudices but they would never want to construct a Trotskyist workers' state anywhere, can you level a claim of anti-Trotskyist xenophobia against them by their own standards and call them out for not deconstructing all their [[redlink - the postcolonial project is smashing signs\|anti-Trotskyist signs]]? If Trotsky believes the Soviet Union has been doing everything wrong, but he managed to get a Trotskyist workers' state built somewhere else and he made most of the same mistakes, would he effectively have also been calling out himself the first time around? If Trotsky is unsatisfied with the Soviet Union does it imply there is a particular structural composition of things which would actually leave him satisfied, and thus which would logically be the actual definition of Trotskyism? If different Trotskyist parties are secretly imagining different results, is Trotskyism actually multiple things rather than one thing? If Trotskyism is actually multiple ideologies with multiple corresponding results, then could they ever successfully form a Fourth International without first realizing they are entirely different Marxisms? If Stalin and Trotsky will always construct two separate countries even if Trotsky succeeds, then can there ever even be such a thing as a single world proletariat, or are there always multiple proletariats pursuing multiple separate Marxisms that have to form a Communist International around the agreement to tolerate each other as separate unique objects with totally different ideologies?

	Ask enough questions about Trotsky, and you ultimately end up with meta-Marxism: the study of ideologies as [[redlink - L??? Bauplan\|parallel ~~ontologies~~]] that realize themselves into [[redlink - L??? Social-Philosophical-Material System\|material objects]], and of how [[Ontology:Q2970\|living individuals]] stochastically or deliberately assemble themselves into subpopulations and then into bigger populations. In practice every question about Trotsky actually turns out to be a question not just about Trotsky, but about how Trotsky interacts with the other things around him. This is the key. Any question about Trotsky can be used to introduce the notion that reality is actually made up of plural forces in contradiction — something which by now is often bizarrely forgotten even in a lot of Marxist analysis. If you can't imagine a particular Marxist theorist giving even a <em>conceivable</em> answer for how one could get Trotsky or Stalin to integrate into the other's vision of world Bolshevism or work with the other against world capitalism, there are some questions you should be asking that party. If an Existentialist proposition about factions or prejudices or "social balance" sounds like something is off, try replacing the central characters with Trotsky and Stalin, and you might begin to see where the error is.		Ask enough questions about Trotsky, and you ultimately end up with meta-Marxism: the study of ideologies as [[redlink - L??? Bauplan\|parallel hypothetical structures]] that realize themselves into [[redlink - L??? Social-Philosophical-Material System\|material objects]], and of how [[Ontology:Q2970\|living individuals]] stochastically or deliberately assemble themselves into subpopulations and then into bigger populations. In practice every question about Trotsky actually turns out to be a question not just about Trotsky, but about how Trotsky interacts with the other things around him. This is the key. Any question about Trotsky can be used to introduce the notion that reality is actually made up of plural forces in contradiction — something which by now is often bizarrely forgotten even in a lot of Marxist analysis. If you can't imagine a particular Marxist theorist giving even a <em>conceivable</em> answer for how one could get Trotsky or Stalin to integrate into the other's vision of world Bolshevism or work with the other against world capitalism, there are some questions you should be asking that party. If an Existentialist proposition about factions or prejudices or "social balance" sounds like something is off, try replacing the central characters with Trotsky and Stalin, and you might begin to see where the error is.

	Finally: hypothetical propositions like these are not meant to be in denial of the real damage caused by the 1930s Trotskyite conspiracy, or the statement that it deliberately killed officials and attacked Soviet civilization. The point to be made in thought experiments of this kind is that even groups of people who kill others in wars or conspiracies are still human beings, who still have their own needs and goals they realize by building civilization. Many people in the United States resort to calling Che Guevara "a terrorist" in reference to the fact the Latin America region was experiencing a two-sided conflict between the united [[redlink - Filament effect\|Filament-axis]] of First World armies and a tiny Marxist force that came up with an unlikely method to wage war on them for national independence. History is a two-sided affair where multiple groups of people all have experiences, but sometimes people kill each other over what amounts to the arrangement of graphs. It's never possible to get the full story just by listening to some particular [[redlink - S2 society is just one big group of friends\|socially-linked group of friends]] in one country talk about the rest of the world. But, if there happened to be both bourgeois Filaments and nominally Leninist factions people had neglected to form prejudices about within the same geographic and conceptual spheres, such people might find it harder to control the narrative.		Finally: hypothetical propositions like these are not meant to be in denial of the real damage caused by the 1930s Trotskyite conspiracy, or the statement that it deliberately killed officials and attacked Soviet civilization. The point to be made in thought experiments of this kind is that even groups of people who kill others in wars or conspiracies are still human beings, who still have their own needs and goals they realize by building civilization. Many people in the United States resort to calling Che Guevara "a terrorist" in reference to the fact the Latin America region was experiencing a two-sided conflict between the united [[redlink - Filament effect\|Filament-axis]] of First World armies and a tiny Marxist force that came up with an unlikely method to wage war on them for national independence. History is a two-sided affair where multiple groups of people all have experiences, but sometimes people kill each other over what amounts to the arrangement of graphs. It's never possible to get the full story just by listening to some particular [[redlink - S2 society is just one big group of friends\|socially-linked group of friends]] in one country talk about the rest of the world. But, if there happened to be both bourgeois Filaments and nominally Leninist factions people had neglected to form prejudices about within the same geographic and conceptual spheres, such people might find it harder to control the narrative.

Reversedragon: alias: Trotsky model

2025-06-02T03:03:47Z

alias: Trotsky model

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:03, 2 June 2025
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	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are }}		{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) }}		{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| Trotsky model (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) }}
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| MDem hypothesis }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| MDem hypothesis }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P56}}\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P56}}\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
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	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">
	{{WaveBuild\| meta-ontology \| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES meta-Marxism -->		{{WaveBuild\| meta-ontology \| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES meta-Marxism -->
	{{WaveBuild\| P200 ~~rating~~ \| {{Ontology:P204}} }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES "Trotsky test" -->		{{WaveBuild\| {{Ontology:P200}} \| {{Ontology:P204}} }} <!-- en: WITH communication rating level PRODUCES "Trotsky test" -->
	</dl>		</dl>

Reversedragon: Trotsky test

2025-06-01T08:53:28Z

Trotsky test

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:53, 1 June 2025
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	{{HueRoster\|P=superset of\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->		{{HueRoster\|P=superset of\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->		{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->
			{{HueRoster\|P=has application as Property\| {{Ontology:P204}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=duplication hint\| <code>copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/</code>{{REVISIONID}}<code>\|Q2944]]</code> }}		{{HueRoster\|P=duplication hint\| <code>copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/</code>{{REVISIONID}}<code>\|Q2944]]</code> }}
	</dl>		</dl>

Reversedragon: category

2025-05-30T06:38:54Z

Reversedragon: category

2025-05-30T05:10:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:51, 18 August 2025
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	{{~~HueCSS~~}}<~~ol class="hue clean compound"><li~~>		{{ArticleTitle\|[S2] Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers - MX - Q29,44}}
	<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="29,44" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q29,44\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q29,44\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1\|enddfn=1}}</onlyinclude>		<includeonly><onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="29,44" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q29,44\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q29,44\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1\|enddfn=1}}</onlyinclude></includeonly><!--
	</li><~~/ol~~><!-- duplication: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q29,44]] --> __NOTOC__		-->{{HueNumberPreview\|{{E:Q29,44}}}}<!-- duplication hint: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q29,44]] --> __NOTOC__

	== Core characteristics ==		== Core characteristics ==
Line 7:		Line 7:
	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{E:Q2944}} \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} \| [[E:~~Trotskyists are the new spherical cows\|~~Trotskyists are the new spherical cows]] }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{E:Q2944}} \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} \| [[E:Trotskyists are the new spherical cows]] }}
	{{HueClaim \|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history]] }}		{{HueClaim \|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history]] }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P42~~\| 4 as Trotskyist number~~ \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42/BB\| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: shares thematic block -->
			{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| 4 as Trotskyist number }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->
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	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| ~~Trotskyists are the new spherical cows~~ }} <!-- en: From ?? ?? -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} }} <!-- en: From Leon Trotsky ?? Trotskyists are the new spherical cows -->
	{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: From jamming proposition ~~Leon Trotsky~~ -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: From Leon Trotsky jamming proposition -->
	</dl>		</dl>

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:23, 18 August 2025
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	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{~~Ontology~~:Q2944}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{E:Q2944}} \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} \| [[E:Trotskyists are the new spherical cows\|Trotskyists are the new spherical cows]] }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history~~]] \| [[E:Trotskyists are the new spherical cows\|Trotskyists are the new spherical cows~~]] }}		{{HueClaim \|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history]] }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~subset of~~\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~instance of~~\| {{Ontology:Q941}} \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: instance of jamming proposition meta-Marxist hypothesis -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| {{Ontology:Q941}} \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: instance of jamming proposition meta-Marxist hypothesis -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~superset of~~\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~appears in work~~\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P14\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=has application as Property\| {{Ontology:P204}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=has application as Property\| {{Ontology:P204}} }}
	</dl>		</dl>

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:30, 13 August 2025
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>		{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>
	<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="~~2944~~" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[~~Ontology~~:~~{{{1}}}~~\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[~~Ontology~~:~~Q2944~~\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}~~</dfn>~~</onlyinclude> ~~__NOTOC__~~		<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="29,44" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q29,44\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q29,44\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1\|enddfn=1}}</onlyinclude>
	</li></ol><!-- duplication: ~~see table~~ -->		</li></ol><!-- duplication: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q29,44]] --> __NOTOC__

	== ~~Characteristics in draft ==~~		== Core characteristics ==

	~~=== Properties =~~==

	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are }}		{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history]] \| [[E:Trotskyists are the new spherical cows\|Trotskyists are the new spherical cows]] }}
	~~{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)~~\| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| Trotsky model (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	~~{{HueClaim~~\|~~P=alias (en)~~\| Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history \| Trotskyists are the new spherical cows }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~{{Ontology:~~P42}}\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| ~~MDem hypothesis~~ }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=~~{{Ontology:~~P56}}\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=subset of\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->		{{HueRoster\|P=subset of\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=instance of\| {{Ontology:Q941}} \| ~~MDem hypothesis~~ }} <!-- en: instance of jamming proposition -->		{{HueRoster\|P=instance of\| {{Ontology:Q941}} \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: instance of jamming proposition meta-Marxist hypothesis -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=superset of\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->		{{HueRoster\|P=superset of\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->		{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=has application as Property\| {{Ontology:P204}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=has application as Property\| {{Ontology:P204}} }}
	~~{{HueRoster\|P=duplication hint\| <code>copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/</code>{{REVISIONID}}<code>\|Q2944]]</code> }}~~
	</dl>		</dl>

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	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==

	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveBuild\| meta-ontology \| {{~~Ontology~~:Q92}} }} <!-- en: ~~WITH~~ ?? ~~PRODUCES~~ meta-Marxism -->		{{WaveBuild\| {{E:Q29,44}} \| meta-ontology \| {{E:Q92}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? meta-Marxism -->
	{{WaveBuild\| {{~~Ontology~~:P200}} \| {{~~Ontology~~:P204}} }} <!-- en: ~~WITH~~ communication rating level ~~PRODUCES~~ "Trotsky test" -->		{{WaveBuild\| {{E:Q29,44}} \| {{E:P200}} \| {{E:P204}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces communication rating level "Trotsky test" -->
	</dl>		</dl>

	== ~~Characterizations~~ ==		=== Wavebuilder characterizations ===

	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| Trotskyists are the new spherical cows }} <!-- en: ~~FROM~~ ?? ?? -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| Trotskyists are the new spherical cows }} <!-- en: From ?? ?? -->
	{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: ~~FROM~~ jamming proposition Leon Trotsky -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: From jamming proposition Leon Trotsky -->
	</dl>		</dl>

Line 50:		Line 45:
	How can you properly comply with Marxism-Leninism while being Trotsky? Would Trotsky truly be able to construct a Trotskyist workers' state over large regions of the world without it falling apart if other Trotskyists think his model is wrong? If half the United States was composed of center-Liberals and the other half was composed of Trotskyists, would Liberalism function the same way it does when half of the population is Tories? If Existentialism thinks The Subject is sacred and everyone must tolerate and appreciate everyone else's ideology and culture, doesn't that mean that by backing Trotsky against the Soviet Union Existentialists are obligated to support people actually trying to build Trotskyist workers' states over part of the world and get rid of Liberalism? If we imagine the afterlife was a real place, what afterlife would Trotsky go to, and by what moral standards would that be determined? If Trotsky is born in the Soviet Union and those are the people who are most like him, but he still doesn't really fit in there and he thinks that the people of the Soviet Union are not doing what's morally right, but the people of the United States don't like Leninists of any kind and largely don't see him as able to do what's morally right, how can he even know how to do the right thing and be a good person without a group of people to fit into? Has everyone been conceptualizing morality and ethics wrong, and should we instead be judging Trotskyites by their ability to fit into the social structure and moral values of a hypothetical Trotskyist workers' state? Is "Trotskyist" actually a nationality or cultural group? If various periods of Existentialism are obsessed with picking apart prejudices but they would never want to construct a Trotskyist workers' state anywhere, can you level a claim of anti-Trotskyist xenophobia against them by their own standards and call them out for not deconstructing all their [[redlink - the postcolonial project is smashing signs\|anti-Trotskyist signs]]? If Trotsky believes the Soviet Union has been doing everything wrong, but he managed to get a Trotskyist workers' state built somewhere else and he made most of the same mistakes, would he effectively have also been calling out himself the first time around? If Trotsky is unsatisfied with the Soviet Union does it imply there is a particular structural composition of things which would actually leave him satisfied, and thus which would logically be the actual definition of Trotskyism? If different Trotskyist parties are secretly imagining different results, is Trotskyism actually multiple things rather than one thing? If Trotskyism is actually multiple ideologies with multiple corresponding results, then could they ever successfully form a Fourth International without first realizing they are entirely different Marxisms? If Stalin and Trotsky will always construct two separate countries even if Trotsky succeeds, then can there ever even be such a thing as a single world proletariat, or are there always multiple proletariats pursuing multiple separate Marxisms that have to form a Communist International around the agreement to tolerate each other as separate unique objects with totally different ideologies?		How can you properly comply with Marxism-Leninism while being Trotsky? Would Trotsky truly be able to construct a Trotskyist workers' state over large regions of the world without it falling apart if other Trotskyists think his model is wrong? If half the United States was composed of center-Liberals and the other half was composed of Trotskyists, would Liberalism function the same way it does when half of the population is Tories? If Existentialism thinks The Subject is sacred and everyone must tolerate and appreciate everyone else's ideology and culture, doesn't that mean that by backing Trotsky against the Soviet Union Existentialists are obligated to support people actually trying to build Trotskyist workers' states over part of the world and get rid of Liberalism? If we imagine the afterlife was a real place, what afterlife would Trotsky go to, and by what moral standards would that be determined? If Trotsky is born in the Soviet Union and those are the people who are most like him, but he still doesn't really fit in there and he thinks that the people of the Soviet Union are not doing what's morally right, but the people of the United States don't like Leninists of any kind and largely don't see him as able to do what's morally right, how can he even know how to do the right thing and be a good person without a group of people to fit into? Has everyone been conceptualizing morality and ethics wrong, and should we instead be judging Trotskyites by their ability to fit into the social structure and moral values of a hypothetical Trotskyist workers' state? Is "Trotskyist" actually a nationality or cultural group? If various periods of Existentialism are obsessed with picking apart prejudices but they would never want to construct a Trotskyist workers' state anywhere, can you level a claim of anti-Trotskyist xenophobia against them by their own standards and call them out for not deconstructing all their [[redlink - the postcolonial project is smashing signs\|anti-Trotskyist signs]]? If Trotsky believes the Soviet Union has been doing everything wrong, but he managed to get a Trotskyist workers' state built somewhere else and he made most of the same mistakes, would he effectively have also been calling out himself the first time around? If Trotsky is unsatisfied with the Soviet Union does it imply there is a particular structural composition of things which would actually leave him satisfied, and thus which would logically be the actual definition of Trotskyism? If different Trotskyist parties are secretly imagining different results, is Trotskyism actually multiple things rather than one thing? If Trotskyism is actually multiple ideologies with multiple corresponding results, then could they ever successfully form a Fourth International without first realizing they are entirely different Marxisms? If Stalin and Trotsky will always construct two separate countries even if Trotsky succeeds, then can there ever even be such a thing as a single world proletariat, or are there always multiple proletariats pursuing multiple separate Marxisms that have to form a Communist International around the agreement to tolerate each other as separate unique objects with totally different ideologies?

	Ask enough questions about Trotsky, and you ultimately end up with meta-Marxism: the study of ideologies as [[~~redlink - L??? Bauplan~~\|parallel hypothetical structures]] that realize themselves into [[~~redlink - L???~~ Social-Philosophical-Material System\|material objects]], and of how [[Ontology:Q2970\|living individuals]] stochastically or deliberately assemble themselves into subpopulations and then into bigger populations. In practice every question about Trotsky actually turns out to be a question not just about Trotsky, but about how Trotsky interacts with the other things around him. This is the key. Any question about Trotsky can be used to introduce the notion that reality is actually made up of plural forces in contradiction — something which by now is often bizarrely forgotten even in a lot of Marxist analysis. If you can't imagine a particular Marxist theorist giving even a <em>conceivable</em> answer for how one could get Trotsky or Stalin to integrate into the other's vision of world Bolshevism or work with the other against world capitalism, there are some questions you should be asking that party. If an Existentialist proposition about factions or prejudices or "social balance" sounds like something is off, try replacing the central characters with Trotsky and Stalin, and you might begin to see where the error is.		Ask enough questions about Trotsky, and you ultimately end up with meta-Marxism: the study of ideologies as [[E:civilizational shape\|parallel hypothetical structures]] that realize themselves into [[Term:Social-Philosophical-Material System\|material objects]], and of how [[Ontology:Q2970\|living individuals]] stochastically or deliberately assemble themselves into subpopulations and then into bigger populations. In practice every question about Trotsky actually turns out to be a question not just about Trotsky, but about how Trotsky interacts with the other things around him. This is the key. Any question about Trotsky can be used to introduce the notion that reality is actually made up of plural forces in contradiction — something which by now is often bizarrely forgotten even in a lot of Marxist analysis. If you can't imagine a particular Marxist theorist giving even a <em>conceivable</em> answer for how one could get Trotsky or Stalin to integrate into the other's vision of world Bolshevism or work with the other against world capitalism, there are some questions you should be asking that party. If an Existentialist proposition about factions or prejudices or "social balance" sounds like something is off, try replacing the central characters with Trotsky and Stalin, and you might begin to see where the error is.

	Finally: hypothetical propositions like these are not meant to be in denial of the real damage caused by the 1930s Trotskyite conspiracy, or the statement that it deliberately killed officials and attacked Soviet civilization. The point to be made in thought experiments of this kind is that even groups of people who kill others in wars or conspiracies are still human beings, who still have their own needs and goals they realize by building civilization. Many people in the United States resort to calling Che Guevara "a terrorist" in reference to the fact the Latin America region was experiencing a two-sided conflict between the united [[~~redlink -~~ Filament effect\|Filament-axis]] of First World armies and a tiny Marxist force that came up with an unlikely method to wage war on them for national independence. History is a two-sided affair where multiple groups of people all have experiences, but sometimes people kill each other over what amounts to the arrangement of graphs. It's never possible to get the full story just by listening to some particular [[redlink - ~~S2 society~~ is just one big group of friends\|socially-linked group of friends]] in one country talk about the rest of the world. But, if there happened to be both bourgeois Filaments and nominally Leninist factions people had neglected to form prejudices about within the same geographic and conceptual spheres, such people might find it harder to control the narrative.		Finally: hypothetical propositions like these are not meant to be in denial of the real damage caused by the 1930s Trotskyite conspiracy, or the statement that it deliberately killed officials and attacked Soviet civilization. The point to be made in thought experiments of this kind is that even groups of people who kill others in wars or conspiracies are still human beings, who still have their own needs and goals they realize by building civilization. Many people in the United States resort to calling Che Guevara "[[E:Che Guevara ruined my life\|a terrorist]]" in reference to the fact the Latin America region was experiencing a two-sided conflict between the united [[Term:Filament effect\|Filament-axis]] of First World armies and a tiny Marxist force that came up with an unlikely method to wage war on them for national independence. History is a two-sided affair where multiple groups of people all have experiences, but sometimes people kill each other over what amounts to the arrangement of graphs. It's never possible to get the full story just by listening to some particular [[redlink - Society is just one big group of friends\|socially-linked group of friends]] in one country talk about the rest of the world. But, if there happened to be both bourgeois Filaments and nominally Leninist factions people had neglected to form prejudices about within the same geographic and conceptual spheres, such people might find it harder to control the narrative.


	[[Category:Meta-ontology ontology]] [[Category:Meta-Marxist hypotheses ontology]]		[[Category:Meta-ontology ontology]] [[Category:Meta-Marxist hypotheses ontology]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:27, 13 June 2025
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	{{HueCSS}}~~<!--~~		{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>
	~~-->~~<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>		<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="2944" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[Ontology:{{{1}}}\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[Ontology:Q2944\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> __NOTOC__
	<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="2944" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[Ontology:{{{1}}}\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[Ontology:Q2944\|~~Applying~~ any claim ~~to Trotsky~~ eventually yields ~~the correct~~ answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> __NOTOC__
	</li></ol><!-- duplication: see table -->		</li></ol><!-- duplication: see table -->

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	{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}		{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are }}		{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| Trotsky model (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) }}		{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| Trotsky model (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) }}
			{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history \| Trotskyists are the new spherical cows }}
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| MDem hypothesis }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| 4 as Trotskyist number \| MDem hypothesis }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P56}}\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P56}}\| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
Line 34:		Line 34:
	{{WaveBuild\| meta-ontology \| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES meta-Marxism -->		{{WaveBuild\| meta-ontology \| {{Ontology:Q92}} }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES meta-Marxism -->
	{{WaveBuild\| {{Ontology:P200}} \| {{Ontology:P204}} }} <!-- en: WITH communication rating level PRODUCES "Trotsky test" -->		{{WaveBuild\| {{Ontology:P200}} \| {{Ontology:P204}} }} <!-- en: WITH communication rating level PRODUCES "Trotsky test" -->
			</dl>

			== Characterizations ==

			<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">
			{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| Trotskyists are the new spherical cows }} <!-- en: FROM ?? ?? -->
			{{WaveRoute\| {{Ontology:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{Ontology:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: FROM jamming proposition Leon Trotsky -->
	</dl>		</dl>

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	There are many, many sub-examples of how to use this method of "force other philosophical claims to explain Trotsky" — so many that this one concept alone formed the basis for a great stack of MDem scraps, and became one of the central themes of the text, after the more universal theme of "[[redlink - postification\|study all other philosophies and incorporate the correct answers to all their questions]]".		There are many, many sub-examples of how to use this method of "force other philosophical claims to explain Trotsky" — so many that this one concept alone formed the basis for a great stack of MDem scraps, and became one of the central themes of the text, after the more universal theme of "[[redlink - postification\|study all other philosophies and incorporate the correct answers to all their questions]]".
	How can you properly comply with Marxism-Leninism while being Trotsky? Would Trotsky truly be able to construct a Trotskyist workers' state over large regions of the world without it falling apart if other Trotskyists think his model is wrong? If half the United States was composed of center-Liberals and the other half was composed of Trotskyists, would Liberalism function the same way it does when half of the population is Tories? If Existentialism thinks The Subject is sacred and everyone must tolerate and appreciate everyone else's ideology and culture, doesn't that mean that by backing Trotsky against the Soviet Union Existentialists are obligated to support people actually trying to build Trotskyist workers' states over part of the world and get rid of Liberalism? If we imagine the afterlife was a real place, what afterlife would Trotsky go to, and by what moral standards would that be determined? If Trotsky is born in the Soviet Union and those are the people who are most like him, but he still doesn't really fit in there and he thinks that the people of the Soviet Union are not doing what's morally right, but the people of the United States don't like Leninists of any kind and largely don't see him as able to do what's morally right, how can he even know how to do the right thing and be a good person without a group of people to fit into? Has everyone been conceptualizing morality and ethics wrong, and should we instead be judging Trotskyites by their ability to fit into the social structure and moral values of a hypothetical Trotskyist workers' state? Is "Trotskyist" actually a nationality or cultural group? If various periods of Existentialism are obsessed with picking apart prejudices but they would never want to construct a Trotskyist workers' state anywhere, can you level a claim of anti-Trotskyist xenophobia against them by their own standards and call them out for not deconstructing all their anti-Trotskyist signs? If Trotsky believes the Soviet Union has been doing everything wrong, but he managed to get a Trotskyist workers' state built somewhere else and he made most of the same mistakes, would he effectively have also been calling out himself? If Trotsky is unsatisfied with the Soviet Union does it imply there is a particular structural composition of things which would actually leave him satisfied, and thus which would logically be the actual definition of Trotskyism? If different Trotskyist parties are secretly imagining different results, is Trotskyism actually multiple things rather than one thing? If Trotskyism is actually multiple ideologies with multiple corresponding results, then could they ever successfully form a Fourth International without first realizing they are entirely different Marxisms? If Stalin and Trotsky will always construct two separate countries even if Trotsky succeeds, then can there ever even be such a thing as a single world proletariat, or are there always multiple proletariats pursuing multiple separate Marxisms that have to form a Communist International around the agreement to tolerate each other as separate unique objects with totally different ideologies?		How can you properly comply with Marxism-Leninism while being Trotsky? Would Trotsky truly be able to construct a Trotskyist workers' state over large regions of the world without it falling apart if other Trotskyists think his model is wrong? If half the United States was composed of center-Liberals and the other half was composed of Trotskyists, would Liberalism function the same way it does when half of the population is Tories? If Existentialism thinks The Subject is sacred and everyone must tolerate and appreciate everyone else's ideology and culture, doesn't that mean that by backing Trotsky against the Soviet Union Existentialists are obligated to support people actually trying to build Trotskyist workers' states over part of the world and get rid of Liberalism? If we imagine the afterlife was a real place, what afterlife would Trotsky go to, and by what moral standards would that be determined? If Trotsky is born in the Soviet Union and those are the people who are most like him, but he still doesn't really fit in there and he thinks that the people of the Soviet Union are not doing what's morally right, but the people of the United States don't like Leninists of any kind and largely don't see him as able to do what's morally right, how can he even know how to do the right thing and be a good person without a group of people to fit into? Has everyone been conceptualizing morality and ethics wrong, and should we instead be judging Trotskyites by their ability to fit into the social structure and moral values of a hypothetical Trotskyist workers' state? Is "Trotskyist" actually a nationality or cultural group? If various periods of Existentialism are obsessed with picking apart prejudices but they would never want to construct a Trotskyist workers' state anywhere, can you level a claim of anti-Trotskyist xenophobia against them by their own standards and call them out for not deconstructing all their [[redlink - the postcolonial project is smashing signs\|anti-Trotskyist signs]]? If Trotsky believes the Soviet Union has been doing everything wrong, but he managed to get a Trotskyist workers' state built somewhere else and he made most of the same mistakes, would he effectively have also been calling out himself the first time around? If Trotsky is unsatisfied with the Soviet Union does it imply there is a particular structural composition of things which would actually leave him satisfied, and thus which would logically be the actual definition of Trotskyism? If different Trotskyist parties are secretly imagining different results, is Trotskyism actually multiple things rather than one thing? If Trotskyism is actually multiple ideologies with multiple corresponding results, then could they ever successfully form a Fourth International without first realizing they are entirely different Marxisms? If Stalin and Trotsky will always construct two separate countries even if Trotsky succeeds, then can there ever even be such a thing as a single world proletariat, or are there always multiple proletariats pursuing multiple separate Marxisms that have to form a Communist International around the agreement to tolerate each other as separate unique objects with totally different ideologies?

	Ask enough questions about Trotsky, and you ultimately end up with meta-Marxism: the study of ideologies as [[redlink - L??? Bauplan\|parallel ~~ontologies~~]] that realize themselves into [[redlink - L??? Social-Philosophical-Material System\|material objects]], and of how [[Ontology:Q2970\|living individuals]] stochastically or deliberately assemble themselves into subpopulations and then into bigger populations. In practice every question about Trotsky actually turns out to be a question not just about Trotsky, but about how Trotsky interacts with the other things around him. This is the key. Any question about Trotsky can be used to introduce the notion that reality is actually made up of plural forces in contradiction — something which by now is often bizarrely forgotten even in a lot of Marxist analysis. If you can't imagine a particular Marxist theorist giving even a <em>conceivable</em> answer for how one could get Trotsky or Stalin to integrate into the other's vision of world Bolshevism or work with the other against world capitalism, there are some questions you should be asking that party. If an Existentialist proposition about factions or prejudices or "social balance" sounds like something is off, try replacing the central characters with Trotsky and Stalin, and you might begin to see where the error is.		Ask enough questions about Trotsky, and you ultimately end up with meta-Marxism: the study of ideologies as [[redlink - L??? Bauplan\|parallel hypothetical structures]] that realize themselves into [[redlink - L??? Social-Philosophical-Material System\|material objects]], and of how [[Ontology:Q2970\|living individuals]] stochastically or deliberately assemble themselves into subpopulations and then into bigger populations. In practice every question about Trotsky actually turns out to be a question not just about Trotsky, but about how Trotsky interacts with the other things around him. This is the key. Any question about Trotsky can be used to introduce the notion that reality is actually made up of plural forces in contradiction — something which by now is often bizarrely forgotten even in a lot of Marxist analysis. If you can't imagine a particular Marxist theorist giving even a <em>conceivable</em> answer for how one could get Trotsky or Stalin to integrate into the other's vision of world Bolshevism or work with the other against world capitalism, there are some questions you should be asking that party. If an Existentialist proposition about factions or prejudices or "social balance" sounds like something is off, try replacing the central characters with Trotsky and Stalin, and you might begin to see where the error is.

	Finally: hypothetical propositions like these are not meant to be in denial of the real damage caused by the 1930s Trotskyite conspiracy, or the statement that it deliberately killed officials and attacked Soviet civilization. The point to be made in thought experiments of this kind is that even groups of people who kill others in wars or conspiracies are still human beings, who still have their own needs and goals they realize by building civilization. Many people in the United States resort to calling Che Guevara "a terrorist" in reference to the fact the Latin America region was experiencing a two-sided conflict between the united [[redlink - Filament effect\|Filament-axis]] of First World armies and a tiny Marxist force that came up with an unlikely method to wage war on them for national independence. History is a two-sided affair where multiple groups of people all have experiences, but sometimes people kill each other over what amounts to the arrangement of graphs. It's never possible to get the full story just by listening to some particular [[redlink - S2 society is just one big group of friends\|socially-linked group of friends]] in one country talk about the rest of the world. But, if there happened to be both bourgeois Filaments and nominally Leninist factions people had neglected to form prejudices about within the same geographic and conceptual spheres, such people might find it harder to control the narrative.		Finally: hypothetical propositions like these are not meant to be in denial of the real damage caused by the 1930s Trotskyite conspiracy, or the statement that it deliberately killed officials and attacked Soviet civilization. The point to be made in thought experiments of this kind is that even groups of people who kill others in wars or conspiracies are still human beings, who still have their own needs and goals they realize by building civilization. Many people in the United States resort to calling Che Guevara "a terrorist" in reference to the fact the Latin America region was experiencing a two-sided conflict between the united [[redlink - Filament effect\|Filament-axis]] of First World armies and a tiny Marxist force that came up with an unlikely method to wage war on them for national independence. History is a two-sided affair where multiple groups of people all have experiences, but sometimes people kill each other over what amounts to the arrangement of graphs. It's never possible to get the full story just by listening to some particular [[redlink - S2 society is just one big group of friends\|socially-linked group of friends]] in one country talk about the rest of the world. But, if there happened to be both bourgeois Filaments and nominally Leninist factions people had neglected to form prejudices about within the same geographic and conceptual spheres, such people might find it harder to control the narrative.

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:11, 13 February 2026
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	{{ArticleTitle\|[S2] Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers - MX - Q29,44}}		{{ArticleTitle\|[S2] Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers - MX - Q29,44\|NoContents=y}}
	<includeonly><onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="29,44" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q29,44\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q29,44\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1\|enddfn=1}}</onlyinclude></includeonly><!--		<includeonly><onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual flag" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="29,44" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q29,44\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q29,44\|Trotsky plus any claim eventually yields answers]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1\|enddfn=1}}</onlyinclude></includeonly><!--
	-->{{HueNumberPreview\|{{E:Q29,44}}}}<!-- duplication hint: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q29,44]] --> ~~__NOTOC__~~		-->{{HueNumberPreview\|{{E:Q29,44}}}}<!-- duplication hint: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q29,44]] -->

	== Core characteristics ==		== Core characteristics ==
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	{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{E:Q2944}} \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} \| [[E:Trotskyists are the new spherical cows]] }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{E:Q2944}} \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} \| [[E:Trotskyists are the new spherical cows]] }}
	{{HueClaim \|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history]] }}		{{HueClaim \|P=alias (en)\| Applying any claim to Trotsky eventually yields the correct answers \| Applying any philosophy to Trotsky eventually gets you to the correct answers \| Trotsky holds all the answers, though he doesn't know what any of them are \| Trotskyism jamming proposition (meta-Marxist strategy to make people analyze other ideologies from those ideologies' perspectives) \| [[E:Trotsky model\|Trotsky model]] (analogy used to examine prejudices or conflicts between two demographic subpopulations) \| [[E:Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history\|Trotskyists are the spherical cows of world history]] \| (... [[E:Q29,44/PPPA\|full list of aliases]]) }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P42/BB\| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: shares thematic block -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42/BB\| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: shares thematic block -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| 4 as Trotskyist number }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| 4 as Trotskyist number }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{~~Ontology~~:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P56\| {{E:Q92}} }} <!-- en: color swatch references meta-Marxism -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| {{~~Ontology~~:Q941}} \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: instance of jamming proposition meta-Marxist hypothesis -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| {{E:Q941}} \| {{E:Q2900}} }} <!-- en: instance of jamming proposition meta-Marxist hypothesis -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P14\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P14\| (MDem entry unknown) }} <!-- en: appears in work -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=has application as Property\| {{~~Ontology~~:P204}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=has application as Property\| {{E:P204}} }}
	</dl>		</dl>

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	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==

	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveBuild\| {{E:Q29,44}} \| meta-ontology \| {{E:Q92}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? meta-Marxism -->		{{WaveBuild\| {{E:Q29,44}} \| meta-ontology \| {{E:Q92}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? meta-Marxism -->
	{{WaveBuild\| {{E:Q29,44}} \| {{E:P200}} \| {{E:P204}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces communication rating level "Trotsky test" -->		{{WaveBuild\| {{E:Q29,44}} \| {{E:P200}} \| {{E:P204}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces communication rating level "Trotsky test" -->
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	=== Wavebuilder characterizations ===		=== Wavebuilder characterizations ===

	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveRoute\| {{~~Ontology~~:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} }} <!-- en: From Leon Trotsky ?? Trotskyists are the new spherical cows -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{E:Q4941}} \| assume a spherical cow \| {{E:Q29,44/SC}} }} <!-- en: From Leon Trotsky ?? Trotskyists are the new spherical cows -->
	{{WaveRoute\| {{~~Ontology~~:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{~~Ontology~~:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: From Leon Trotsky jamming proposition -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{E:Q4941}} \| {{Ontology:Q940}} \| {{E:Q2944}} }} <!-- en: From Leon Trotsky jamming proposition -->
	</dl>		</dl>

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	Finally: hypothetical propositions like these are not meant to be in denial of the real damage caused by the 1930s Trotskyite conspiracy, or the statement that it deliberately killed officials and attacked Soviet civilization. The point to be made in thought experiments of this kind is that even groups of people who kill others in wars or conspiracies are still human beings, who still have their own needs and goals they realize by building civilization. Many people in the United States resort to calling Che Guevara "[[E:Che Guevara ruined my life\|a terrorist]]" in reference to the fact the Latin America region was experiencing a two-sided conflict between the united [[Term:Filament effect\|Filament-axis]] of First World armies and a tiny Marxist force that came up with an unlikely method to wage war on them for national independence. History is a two-sided affair where multiple groups of people all have experiences, but sometimes people kill each other over what amounts to the arrangement of graphs. It's never possible to get the full story just by listening to some particular [[redlink - Society is just one big group of friends\|socially-linked group of friends]] in one country talk about the rest of the world. But, if there happened to be both bourgeois Filaments and nominally Leninist factions people had neglected to form prejudices about within the same geographic and conceptual spheres, such people might find it harder to control the narrative.		Finally: hypothetical propositions like these are not meant to be in denial of the real damage caused by the 1930s Trotskyite conspiracy, or the statement that it deliberately killed officials and attacked Soviet civilization. The point to be made in thought experiments of this kind is that even groups of people who kill others in wars or conspiracies are still human beings, who still have their own needs and goals they realize by building civilization. Many people in the United States resort to calling Che Guevara "[[E:Che Guevara ruined my life\|a terrorist]]" in reference to the fact the Latin America region was experiencing a two-sided conflict between the united [[Term:Filament effect\|Filament-axis]] of First World armies and a tiny Marxist force that came up with an unlikely method to wage war on them for national independence. History is a two-sided affair where multiple groups of people all have experiences, but sometimes people kill each other over what amounts to the arrangement of graphs. It's never possible to get the full story just by listening to some particular [[redlink - Society is just one big group of friends\|socially-linked group of friends]] in one country talk about the rest of the world. But, if there happened to be both bourgeois Filaments and nominally Leninist factions people had neglected to form prejudices about within the same geographic and conceptual spheres, such people might find it harder to control the narrative.

			<!-- == Aliases / Labels / More languages ==
			{{E:Q29,44/PPPA}} -->


	[[Category:Meta-ontology ontology]] [[Category:Meta-Marxist hypotheses ontology]]		[[Category:Meta-ontology ontology]] [[Category:Meta-Marxist hypotheses ontology]]

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	[[Category:Meta-ontology ontology]]		[[Category:Meta-ontology ontology]] [[Category:Meta-Marxist hypotheses ontology]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:10, 30 May 2025
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	[[Category:~~Molecular~~-~~Marxist propositions~~ ontology]]		[[Category:Meta-ontology ontology]]