Ontology:Q33,29 - Revision history

Reversedragon: category

2026-03-26T23:42:50Z

Reversedragon: proofread / page aliases

2025-07-27T05:25:02Z

proofread / page aliases

Show changes

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page Ontology:Q3329 to Ontology:Q33,29: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

2025-07-27T02:07:38Z

Reversedragon moved page Ontology:Q3329 to Ontology:Q33,29: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

← Older revision	Revision as of 02:07, 27 July 2025
(No difference)

Reversedragon: link: Nature is a multiplication table

2025-06-02T05:29:50Z

link: Nature is a multiplication table

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:29, 2 June 2025
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	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">
	{{WaveBuild\| ~~Q?? Nature is a multiplication table~~ \| (the more correct one) }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES ?? -->		{{WaveBuild\| {{Ontology:Q2223}} \| (the more correct one) }} <!-- en: WITH [S2] Nature is a multiplication table PRODUCES ?? -->
	</dl>		</dl>

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	One upside of this approach was that it was conducive to understanding the world's populations without ever creating stereotypes. If the people of Spain are not defined by mandatory customs they have to perform to be Spanish, then nobody will be pushed to depict "Spanish people" as looking or acting a particular way versus [[Ontology:Q3328\|being able to more or less be anything]]. If somebody assumes that stereotypes are a major factor in constructing concepts that other groups of people are fundamentally different and worthy of prejudice, then it would seem valuable to begin with a model of populations which does not encourage anyone to construct ontologies of repeatable ways that other people-groups are different. The problem with this is that real-world racists [[redlink\|do not actually seem to create prejudices based on outward stereotypes]], but more the other way around: <em>because</em> United States Christians don't like Irish people as a population, we have to make up a bunch of specific distinctions of how Irish people are weird to retroactively justify it. The anti-essentialist model of populations and populational history is perfect for people who already do not cling to prejudice or actively contribute to racism, but it hits a wall when it comes to the task of actually changing the behavior of racists. To have any hope of actually counteracting the efforts of racists, it is important to understand the ways in which groups of people which outwardly manifest different forms of culture <em>actually</em> separate into different countries or local subpopulations.		One upside of this approach was that it was conducive to understanding the world's populations without ever creating stereotypes. If the people of Spain are not defined by mandatory customs they have to perform to be Spanish, then nobody will be pushed to depict "Spanish people" as looking or acting a particular way versus [[Ontology:Q3328\|being able to more or less be anything]]. If somebody assumes that stereotypes are a major factor in constructing concepts that other groups of people are fundamentally different and worthy of prejudice, then it would seem valuable to begin with a model of populations which does not encourage anyone to construct ontologies of repeatable ways that other people-groups are different. The problem with this is that real-world racists [[redlink\|do not actually seem to create prejudices based on outward stereotypes]], but more the other way around: <em>because</em> United States Christians don't like Irish people as a population, we have to make up a bunch of specific distinctions of how Irish people are weird to retroactively justify it. The anti-essentialist model of populations and populational history is perfect for people who already do not cling to prejudice or actively contribute to racism, but it hits a wall when it comes to the task of actually changing the behavior of racists. To have any hope of actually counteracting the efforts of racists, it is important to understand the ways in which groups of people which outwardly manifest different forms of culture <em>actually</em> separate into different countries or local subpopulations.

	Another major hang-up with this approach was that it simply did not function as a proper dialectical-materialist model. If populations are not defined by culture, why do other populations so quickly treat them as if they are? A proper model of the emergence of local culture must take into account how the perception of groups of people as "Cultures" is connected to the two-way interactions between living, breathing groups of people, and how this [[~~redlink - "multiplication table"~~\|multivariable function]] of two groups developing evolves over time.		Another major hang-up with this approach was that it simply did not function as a proper dialectical-materialist model. If populations are not defined by culture, why do other populations so quickly treat them as if they are? A proper model of the emergence of local culture must take into account how the perception of groups of people as "Cultures" is connected to the two-way interactions between living, breathing groups of people, and how this [[Ontology:Q2223\|multivariable function]] of two groups developing evolves over time.

	At this point, it is appropriate to bring in the "[[Ontology:Q2944\|Trotsky model]]". If a third of the Soviet Union were to actually believe in Trotskyism, and want an entirely different country to be constructed over the top of the Soviet Union, would this purely hypothetical Soviet Union consist of one culture of people per town or multiple cultures? It is not acceptable to simply say that culture cannot be counted, because all the people in the group of Trotskyists will consider the people not in their group to be a separate group of people, and spit out a bunch of particular generalizations about them — "[[redlink - L?? Stalinist\|Stalin-followers]] promote [[redlink - propositions\|bureaucracy]]", "Stalin-followers [[redlink - propositions\|promote the interests of the Soviet Union]] over the interests of other countries that could hypothetically become Trotskyist". The best answer is that each town containing both Stalin-followers and Trotskyists contains multiple countable Cultures which are slowly differentiating into separate nationalities. It may be that these are only "countable cultures" in a strictly political sense where East Germany and West Germany can become two different Cultures purely because they consist of different political-economic structure rather than being based in any smaller-scale, more ordinary definition of culture which makes reference to local traditions, practices, language, or history. However, if political philosophy counts as a form of culture, then a Trotskyist workers' state and the Soviet Union do form different countable areas of culture. Outside the scope of Trotskyism and named Marxisms, this only becomes harder to argue against. In countries such as the United States, merely belonging to right-Liberalism or holding any number of Tory positions such as being anti-abortion, anti-immigration, or strongly "anti-crime" are all easily connected to the development of countable Cultures. People with these particular "positions on political issues" tend to sort entirely away from center-Liberal voters into separate cultural populations, while elections very often hinge on people's perception of candidates as [[redlink - Democracy for Realists / propositions?\|belonging or not belonging to particular cultural groups]] such as Catholic, Protestant, anti-racist, or "Karen". The reality on the ground is that Liberal-republicanism is some kind of ill-understood countable-culture-generating machine, and the United States constitution is a consensus about culture in addition to anything else it may be. A meta-Marxist study of the history of different populations and subpopulations is not complete without acknowledging the existence of countable Cultures, whether or not they are incidental to class phenomena and historically-significant changes in populational structure. At the same time, meta-Marxism can preserve anti-essentialism through conceptualizing every culturally-defined group of people as potentially consisting of multiple countable Cultures which will emerge along either [[redlink - demographic subpopulation\|cultural]] or [[redlink - Social-Philosophical System\|political]] lines as the population develops further.		At this point, it is appropriate to bring in the "[[Ontology:Q2944\|Trotsky model]]". If a third of the Soviet Union were to actually believe in Trotskyism, and want an entirely different country to be constructed over the top of the Soviet Union, would this purely hypothetical Soviet Union consist of one culture of people per town or multiple cultures? It is not acceptable to simply say that culture cannot be counted, because all the people in the group of Trotskyists will consider the people not in their group to be a separate group of people, and spit out a bunch of particular generalizations about them — "[[redlink - L?? Stalinist\|Stalin-followers]] promote [[redlink - propositions\|bureaucracy]]", "Stalin-followers [[redlink - propositions\|promote the interests of the Soviet Union]] over the interests of other countries that could hypothetically become Trotskyist". The best answer is that each town containing both Stalin-followers and Trotskyists contains multiple countable Cultures which are slowly differentiating into separate nationalities. It may be that these are only "countable cultures" in a strictly political sense where East Germany and West Germany can become two different Cultures purely because they consist of different political-economic structure rather than being based in any smaller-scale, more ordinary definition of culture which makes reference to local traditions, practices, language, or history. However, if political philosophy counts as a form of culture, then a Trotskyist workers' state and the Soviet Union do form different countable areas of culture. Outside the scope of Trotskyism and named Marxisms, this only becomes harder to argue against. In countries such as the United States, merely belonging to right-Liberalism or holding any number of Tory positions such as being anti-abortion, anti-immigration, or strongly "anti-crime" are all easily connected to the development of countable Cultures. People with these particular "positions on political issues" tend to sort entirely away from center-Liberal voters into separate cultural populations, while elections very often hinge on people's perception of candidates as [[redlink - Democracy for Realists / propositions?\|belonging or not belonging to particular cultural groups]] such as Catholic, Protestant, anti-racist, or "Karen". The reality on the ground is that Liberal-republicanism is some kind of ill-understood countable-culture-generating machine, and the United States constitution is a consensus about culture in addition to anything else it may be. A meta-Marxist study of the history of different populations and subpopulations is not complete without acknowledging the existence of countable Cultures, whether or not they are incidental to class phenomena and historically-significant changes in populational structure. At the same time, meta-Marxism can preserve anti-essentialism through conceptualizing every culturally-defined group of people as potentially consisting of multiple countable Cultures which will emerge along either [[redlink - demographic subpopulation\|cultural]] or [[redlink - Social-Philosophical System\|political]] lines as the population develops further.

Reversedragon: Usage notes

2025-06-02T04:58:15Z

Usage notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:58, 2 June 2025
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	{{HueCSS}}<!--		{{HueCSS}}<!--
	--><ol class="hue clean compound"><li>		--><ol class="hue clean compound"><li>
	<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="F2" data-qid="3329" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IF2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[Ontology:{{{1}}}\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[Ontology:Q3329\|Human beings cannot form into A Culture]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> __NOTOC__		<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="F2" data-qid="3329" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IF2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[Ontology:{{{1}}}\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[Ontology:Q3329\|Human beings cannot form into A Culture]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> __NOTOC__
	</li></ol><!-- change summary template: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q3329]] -->		</li></ol><!-- change summary template: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q3329]] -->

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	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q3329}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q3329}} }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Culture is uncountable and countable Cultures do not exist \| Culture cannot be countable because people are split into towns before towns have culture \| Social-Philosophical Systems of political economy are strictly a larger scale than culture }}		{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Culture is uncountable and countable Cultures do not exist \| Culture cannot be countable because people are split into towns before towns have culture \| Social-Philosophical Systems of political economy are strictly a larger scale than culture }}
			{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| anti-essentialist proposition against countable Cultures }}
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| Q1337 subculture \| Q3330 otaku }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| Q1337 subculture \| Q3330 otaku }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P56}}\| -- }} <!-- en: color swatch references -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P56}}\| -- }} <!-- en: color swatch references -->
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	{{HueRoster\|P=superset of\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->		{{HueRoster\|P=superset of\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=relevant quote\| -- }}		{{HueRoster\|P=relevant quote\| -- }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=[[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand\|prototype]] notes\| a false belief RD had during early MDem drafts. they had a problem with the way sociology, progressive anthropology, and most notably fantasy books characterized civilizations as "cultures" when they were always made of populations of material people. it seemed that if you defined groups of people (or fantasy beings, etc) as coming into existence through "culture", then it inherently promoted defining people by stereotypes and didn't explain the underlying processes that produced the people who didn't fit them. over time, [... it was determined that] what the MDem book had a problem with wasn't the concept that people could separate into new groups by culture — 1930s Trotskyites, modern anarchists, and particular clusters of Toryism in places like the United States clearly try to do that — but that people like fantasy writers assume a whole empire or kingdom-sized area <em>is made of one Culture</em> rather than every ethnic group, nationality, or fantasy race being made of multiple Cultures. RD's stance after that was that countable Cultures are real but they actually exist because populations are made up of subpopulations, not because people are unified. }}		{{HueRoster\|P=[[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand\|prototype]] notes\| -- }}
	</dl>		</dl>

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	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| -- }}		{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| Q19??? MDem 4.3/3850 a-culture }}
	</dl>		</dl>

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	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">
	{{~~WaveBuildNone~~\| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES ?? -->		{{WaveBuild\| Q?? Nature is a multiplication table \| (the more correct one) }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES ?? -->
	</dl>		</dl>

	== Usage notes ==		== Usage notes ==

			This is a claim you will probably not hear very often. It came up in early MDem drafts, in association with exploring [[redlink\|Hyper-Materialism]] and the concept that gaps between separate groups of people are a large factor in determining differences in local culture, political philosophy, and adherence or loyalty to [[redlink - Social-Philosophical-Material Systems\|large-scale political-economic systems]]. A lot of existing literature about groups of people had been talking about groups of people as "cultures", from progressive anthropology works describing ethical ways of studying people-groups, to "post-Marxist" models of movements [[redlink - retrieve Laclau article title\|insisting]] for some reason that labor movements were groups of people who spontaneously agreed on the same signifiers, to fantasy authors describing fantasy civilizations as "cultures" and defining their fantasy races and progressions of history based on pre-defined Cultures. In response to this, MDem 4.3 drafts explored a bold stance that really, culture did not <em>produce</em> countable groups of people at all, and it was possible to study the material processes of history as their own layer mostly separate from culture. This concept was linked to the notion that signifiers are separate from material reality and are at best a model of reality — for instance, if a Tory defines the term "transgender" to partly mean "conspirator intending to destroy the United States", or a Trotskyist defines "the future" to mean "all the world's countries linked into a global proletarian civilization which required Trotsky's methods to create", those signifiers are not necessarily accurate to the reality of how societies or interacting populations function purely because some individual [[redlink - The Subject (Existentialism)\|Subject]] believes them. At the same time, every particular slice of traditions or practices we can describe as "culture" such as a local language or local food recipes can be considered to consist of signifiers. Every mental model of anything anybody believes or remembers is a kind of <dfn>ontological model</dfn>, which is to say that it can typically be expressed in terms of nested definitions of signifiers. In this sense, everyone possesses models of reality within culture and ideology, but there are always times when these models accidentally form an incorrect portrayal of some process or group of people outside them they do not understand. A Trotskyist can have the cultural understanding that [[redlink - Alan Woods hates rock music\|orchestral music is good]], and this is inconsequential, but if a Trotskyist has the cultural understanding that [[redlink - retrieve article\|Black Lives Matter is dividing the single United States proletarian population]], then culture can be factually incorrect, and no appeal to "signifiers" or "[[redlink - Free Will\|free will]]" will change that.

			One upside of this approach was that it was conducive to understanding the world's populations without ever creating stereotypes. If the people of Spain are not defined by mandatory customs they have to perform to be Spanish, then nobody will be pushed to depict "Spanish people" as looking or acting a particular way versus [[Ontology:Q3328\|being able to more or less be anything]]. If somebody assumes that stereotypes are a major factor in constructing concepts that other groups of people are fundamentally different and worthy of prejudice, then it would seem valuable to begin with a model of populations which does not encourage anyone to construct ontologies of repeatable ways that other people-groups are different. The problem with this is that real-world racists [[redlink\|do not actually seem to create prejudices based on outward stereotypes]], but more the other way around: <em>because</em> United States Christians don't like Irish people as a population, we have to make up a bunch of specific distinctions of how Irish people are weird to retroactively justify it. The anti-essentialist model of populations and populational history is perfect for people who already do not cling to prejudice or actively contribute to racism, but it hits a wall when it comes to the task of actually changing the behavior of racists. To have any hope of actually counteracting the efforts of racists, it is important to understand the ways in which groups of people which outwardly manifest different forms of culture <em>actually</em> separate into different countries or local subpopulations.

			Another major hang-up with this approach was that it simply did not function as a proper dialectical-materialist model. If populations are not defined by culture, why do other populations so quickly treat them as if they are? A proper model of the emergence of local culture must take into account how the perception of groups of people as "Cultures" is connected to the two-way interactions between living, breathing groups of people, and how this [[redlink - "multiplication table"\|multivariable function]] of two groups developing evolves over time.

			At this point, it is appropriate to bring in the "[[Ontology:Q2944\|Trotsky model]]". If a third of the Soviet Union were to actually believe in Trotskyism, and want an entirely different country to be constructed over the top of the Soviet Union, would this purely hypothetical Soviet Union consist of one culture of people per town or multiple cultures? It is not acceptable to simply say that culture cannot be counted, because all the people in the group of Trotskyists will consider the people not in their group to be a separate group of people, and spit out a bunch of particular generalizations about them — "[[redlink - L?? Stalinist\|Stalin-followers]] promote [[redlink - propositions\|bureaucracy]]", "Stalin-followers [[redlink - propositions\|promote the interests of the Soviet Union]] over the interests of other countries that could hypothetically become Trotskyist". The best answer is that each town containing both Stalin-followers and Trotskyists contains multiple countable Cultures which are slowly differentiating into separate nationalities. It may be that these are only "countable cultures" in a strictly political sense where East Germany and West Germany can become two different Cultures purely because they consist of different political-economic structure rather than being based in any smaller-scale, more ordinary definition of culture which makes reference to local traditions, practices, language, or history. However, if political philosophy counts as a form of culture, then a Trotskyist workers' state and the Soviet Union do form different countable areas of culture. Outside the scope of Trotskyism and named Marxisms, this only becomes harder to argue against. In countries such as the United States, merely belonging to right-Liberalism or holding any number of Tory positions such as being anti-abortion, anti-immigration, or strongly "anti-crime" are all easily connected to the development of countable Cultures. People with these particular "positions on political issues" tend to sort entirely away from center-Liberal voters into separate cultural populations, while elections very often hinge on people's perception of candidates as [[redlink - Democracy for Realists / propositions?\|belonging or not belonging to particular cultural groups]] such as Catholic, Protestant, anti-racist, or "Karen". The reality on the ground is that Liberal-republicanism is some kind of ill-understood countable-culture-generating machine, and the United States constitution is a consensus about culture in addition to anything else it may be. A meta-Marxist study of the history of different populations and subpopulations is not complete without acknowledging the existence of countable Cultures, whether or not they are incidental to class phenomena and historically-significant changes in populational structure. At the same time, meta-Marxism can preserve anti-essentialism through conceptualizing every culturally-defined group of people as potentially consisting of multiple countable Cultures which will emerge along either [[redlink - demographic subpopulation\|cultural]] or [[redlink - Social-Philosophical System\|political]] lines as the population develops further.

			One thing that is important to note is that the anti-essentialist proposition against countable Cultures is not an assertion that people do not belong to different ethnic groups, nationalities, or identities; this assertion would make no sense. It is only the assertion that what these groups of people fundamentally are is <em>populations</em>, rather than people fundamentally being sorted into <em>culturally-defined identities</em> composed of signifiers or traditions before they form material populations of physical people. The reason this is incorrect is that signifiers arranged into ontological models <em>can</em> create borders between human populations, as in the case of mainstream Marxism-Leninism and Trotskyism, or center-Liberalism and Toryism. The way sociologists have attempted to understand the connection between populations and Cultures may not be entirely correct, but at the same time, there are clearly cases where countable Cultures <em>can</em> push people into separate populations.


	[[Category:Incorrect statements in early MDem drafts]]		[[Category:Incorrect statements in early MDem drafts]]

Reversedragon: Use in thesis portals

2025-06-02T00:36:55Z

Use in thesis portals

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:36, 2 June 2025
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	{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| F2 }}		{{HueClaim\|P=item type\| F2 }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q3329}} }}		{{HueRoster\|P=label (en)\| {{Ontology:Q3329}} }}
	{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Culture is uncountable and countable Cultures do not exist \| Culture cannot be countable because people are split into towns before towns have culture }}		{{HueClaim\|P=alias (en)\| Culture is uncountable and countable Cultures do not exist \| Culture cannot be countable because people are split into towns before towns have culture \| Social-Philosophical Systems of political economy are strictly a larger scale than culture }}
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| -- }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P42}}\| Q1337 subculture \| Q3330 otaku }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P56}}\| -- }} <!-- en: color swatch references -->		{{HueRoster\|P={{Ontology:P56}}\| -- }} <!-- en: color swatch references -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=subset of\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->		{{HueRoster\|P=subset of\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=instance of\| -- }} <!-- en: instance of -->		{{HueRoster\|P=instance of\| -- }} <!-- en: instance of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=superset of\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->		{{HueRoster\|P=superset of\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->
	~~{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| -- }}~~
	{{HueRoster\|P=relevant quote\| -- }}		{{HueRoster\|P=relevant quote\| -- }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=[[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand\|prototype]] notes\| a false belief RD had during early MDem drafts. they had a problem with the way sociology, progressive anthropology, and most notably fantasy books characterized civilizations as "cultures" when they were always made of populations of material people. it seemed that if you defined groups of people (or fantasy beings, etc) as coming into existence through "culture", then it inherently promoted defining people by stereotypes and didn't explain the underlying processes that produced the people who didn't fit them. over time, [... it was determined that] what the MDem book had a problem with wasn't the concept that people could separate into new groups by culture — 1930s Trotskyites, modern anarchists, and particular clusters of Toryism in places like the United States clearly try to do that — but that people like fantasy writers assume a whole empire or kingdom-sized area <em>is made of one Culture</em> rather than every ethnic group, nationality, or fantasy race being made of multiple Cultures. RD's stance after that was that countable Cultures are real but they actually exist because populations are made up of subpopulations, not because people are unified. }}		{{HueRoster\|P=[[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand\|prototype]] notes\| a false belief RD had during early MDem drafts. they had a problem with the way sociology, progressive anthropology, and most notably fantasy books characterized civilizations as "cultures" when they were always made of populations of material people. it seemed that if you defined groups of people (or fantasy beings, etc) as coming into existence through "culture", then it inherently promoted defining people by stereotypes and didn't explain the underlying processes that produced the people who didn't fit them. over time, [... it was determined that] what the MDem book had a problem with wasn't the concept that people could separate into new groups by culture — 1930s Trotskyites, modern anarchists, and particular clusters of Toryism in places like the United States clearly try to do that — but that people like fantasy writers assume a whole empire or kingdom-sized area <em>is made of one Culture</em> rather than every ethnic group, nationality, or fantasy race being made of multiple Cultures. RD's stance after that was that countable Cultures are real but they actually exist because populations are made up of subpopulations, not because people are unified. }}
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	</dl>		</dl>

	=== Wavebuilder combinations ===		=== Use in thesis portals ===

			<dl class="wikitable hue">
			{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| -- }}
			</dl>

			== Wavebuilder combinations ==

	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">
	{{WaveBuildNone\| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES ?? -->		{{WaveBuildNone\| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: WITH ?? PRODUCES ?? -->
	</dl>		</dl>

			== Usage notes ==


	[[Category:Incorrect statements ~~from~~ early MDem drafts]]		[[Category:Incorrect statements in early MDem drafts]]

Reversedragon: rewrite "I" statements into third-person

2025-06-02T00:18:37Z

rewrite "I" statements into third-person

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:18, 2 June 2025
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	{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>		{{HueCSS}}<!--
			--><ol class="hue clean compound"><li>
	<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="F2" data-qid="3329" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IF2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[Ontology:{{{1}}}\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[Ontology:Q3329\|Human beings cannot form into A Culture]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> __NOTOC__		<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="F2" data-qid="3329" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IF2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[Ontology:{{{1}}}\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[Ontology:Q3329\|Human beings cannot form into A Culture]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> __NOTOC__
	</li></ol><!-- change summary template: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q3329]] -->		</li></ol><!-- change summary template: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q3329]] -->
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	{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| -- }}		{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| -- }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=relevant quote\| -- }}		{{HueRoster\|P=relevant quote\| -- }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=[[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand\|prototype]] notes\| a false belief I had during early MDem drafts. I had a problem with the way sociology, progressive anthropology, and most notably fantasy books characterized civilizations as "cultures" when they were always made of populations of material people. it seemed ~~to me~~ that if you defined groups of people (or fantasy beings, etc) as coming into existence through "culture", then it inherently promoted defining people by stereotypes and didn't explain the underlying processes that produced the people who didn't fit them. over time, ~~I thought about this more, and came to see~~ that what ~~I actually~~ had a problem with wasn't the concept that people could separate into new groups by culture — 1930s Trotskyites, modern anarchists, and particular clusters of Toryism in places like the United States clearly try to do that — but ~~the actual problem I had was~~ that people like fantasy writers assume a whole empire or kingdom-sized area <em>is made of one Culture</em> rather than every ethnic group, nationality, or fantasy race being made of multiple Cultures. my stance after that was that countable Cultures are real but they actually exist because populations are made up of subpopulations, not because people are unified. }}		{{HueRoster\|P=[[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand\|prototype]] notes\| a false belief RD had during early MDem drafts. they had a problem with the way sociology, progressive anthropology, and most notably fantasy books characterized civilizations as "cultures" when they were always made of populations of material people. it seemed that if you defined groups of people (or fantasy beings, etc) as coming into existence through "culture", then it inherently promoted defining people by stereotypes and didn't explain the underlying processes that produced the people who didn't fit them. over time, [... it was determined that] what the MDem book had a problem with wasn't the concept that people could separate into new groups by culture — 1930s Trotskyites, modern anarchists, and particular clusters of Toryism in places like the United States clearly try to do that — but that people like fantasy writers assume a whole empire or kingdom-sized area <em>is made of one Culture</em> rather than every ethnic group, nationality, or fantasy race being made of multiple Cultures. RD's stance after that was that countable Cultures are real but they actually exist because populations are made up of subpopulations, not because people are unified. }}
	</dl>		</dl>

Reversedragon: copy or update fake Item from Q5991

2025-06-02T00:03:08Z

copy or update fake Item from Q5991

New page

{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>
<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="F2" data-qid="3329" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IF2}}{{#if: {{{1|}}} | [[Ontology:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] | [[Ontology:Q3329|Human beings cannot form into A Culture]] }}{{WaveScore|sum=1|quilt=1|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> __NOTOC__
</li></ol>

== Characteristics in draft ==

=== Properties ===

<dl class="wikitable hue">
{{HueClaim|P=item type| F2 }}
{{HueRoster|P=label (en)| {{Ontology:Q3329}} }}
{{HueClaim|P=alias (en)| Culture is uncountable and countable Cultures do not exist | Culture cannot be countable because people are split into towns before towns have culture }}
{{HueRoster|P={{Ontology:P42}}| -- }} 
{{HueRoster|P={{Ontology:P56}}| -- }} 
{{HueRoster|P=subset of| -- }} 
{{HueRoster|P=instance of| -- }} 
{{HueRoster|P=superset of| -- }} 
{{HueRoster|P=appears in work| -- }}
{{HueRoster|P=relevant quote| -- }}
{{HueRoster|P=[[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand|prototype]] notes| a false belief I had during early MDem drafts. I had a problem with the way sociology, progressive anthropology, and most notably fantasy books characterized civilizations as "cultures" when they were always made of populations of material people. it seemed to me that if you defined groups of people (or fantasy beings, etc) as coming into existence through "culture", then it inherently promoted defining people by stereotypes and didn't explain the underlying processes that produced the people who didn't fit them. over time, I thought about this more, and came to see that what I actually had a problem with wasn't the concept that people could separate into new groups by culture — 1930s Trotskyites, modern anarchists, and particular clusters of Toryism in places like the United States clearly try to do that — but the actual problem I had was that people like fantasy writers assume a whole empire or kingdom-sized area <em>is made of one Culture</em> rather than every ethnic group, nationality, or fantasy race being made of multiple Cultures. my stance after that was that countable Cultures are real but they actually exist because populations are made up of subpopulations, not because people are unified. }}
</dl>

=== Components ===

<dl class="wikitable hue">
{{HueRoster|P=model combines claims| -- }}
</dl>

=== Wavebuilder combinations ===

<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild">
{{WaveBuildNone| -- | -- }} 
</dl>

[[Category:Incorrect statements from early MDem drafts]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:42, 26 March 2026
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>		{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>
	<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="F2" data-qid="33,29" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IF2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q33,29\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q33,29\|Human beings cannot form into A Culture]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> ~~__NOTOC__~~		<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_mdem manual" data-dimension="F2" data-qid="33,29" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IF2}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q33,29\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q33,29\|Human beings cannot form into A Culture]] }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude> {{ArticleTitle\|NoContents=y}}
	</li></ol><!-- change summary template: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q33,29]] -->		</li></ol><!-- change summary template: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q33,29]] -->

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	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:F2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:F2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\|lang=en\| {{E:Q33,29}} }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\|lang=en\| {{E:Q33,29}} [[Category:Anti-essentialism ontology]] }}
	{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\|lang=en\| [[E:Countable cultures aren't real\|Countable cultures aren't real]] \| Culture is uncountable, thus countable Cultures do not exist \| [[E:Culture cannot be countable\|Culture cannot be countable]] because people are split into towns before towns have culture \| Social-Philosophical Systems of political economy are strictly a larger scale than culture \| Every reference to countable Cultures is really a reference to material populations, and culture only exists inside them \| [[E:anti-essentialist proposition against countable cultures\|anti-essentialist proposition against countable cultures]] }}		{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\|lang=en\| [[E:Countable cultures aren't real\|Countable cultures aren't real]] \| Culture is uncountable, thus countable Cultures do not exist \| [[E:Culture cannot be countable\|Culture cannot be countable]] because people are split into towns before towns have culture \| Social-Philosophical Systems of political economy are strictly a larger scale than culture \| Every reference to countable Cultures is really a reference to material populations, and culture only exists inside them \| [[E:anti-essentialist proposition against countable cultures\|anti-essentialist proposition against countable cultures]] }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| Q1337 subculture \| Q33,30 otaku }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| Q1337 subculture \| Q33,30 otaku }} <!-- en: QID references -->
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	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| Q19??? MDem 4.3/3850 a-culture }}		{{HueRoster\|P=appears in work\| Q19??? MDem 4.3/3850 a-culture [[Category:Incorrect statements in early MDem drafts]] }}
	</dl>		</dl>

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	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveBuild\| {{E:Q33,29}} \| {{E:Q2223}} \| (the more correct one) }} <!-- en: ~~WITH~~ Nature is a multiplication table ~~PRODUCES~~ ?? -->		{{WaveBuild\| {{E:Q33,29}} \| {{E:Q2223}} \| (the more correct one) }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces Nature is a multiplication table ?? -->
	</dl>		</dl>

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	[[Category:~~Essentialism ontology]] [[Category:Incorrect statements in early MDem drafts~~]]		[[Category:Hue-format fake Items]] <!-- page ends here.
			-->