Ontology:Q4002 - Revision history

Reversedragon: Background

2026-03-10T09:56:42Z

Background

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:56, 10 March 2026
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	{{ArticleTitle\|Stalin's Marxism is (not) a Leninism - ML, IV / S2 / Q4002\|NoContents=y}}{{HueNumberPreview\|E=Q4002}}~~<!--~~		{{ArticleTitle\|Stalin's Marxism is (not) a Leninism - ML, IV / S2 / Q4002\|NoContents=y}}{{HueNumberPreview\|E=Q4002}}{{HueNumberPreview\|E=Q4002/IV}}<includeonly><onlyinclude>{{HueEntity\|I={{{I\|S2/ML}}}\|Q=4002\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1 <!-- three braces: changeable arguments -->
	~~-->~~<includeonly><onlyinclude>{{HueEntity\|I={{{I\|S2/ML}}}\|Q=4002\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1 <!-- three braces: changeable arguments -->
	\|swatch={{{class\|field_ML}}}\|class=manual flag\|lang={{{lang\|en}}}\|PPPA2={{{1\|}}}\|sense={{{2\|}}}\|ins={{{3\|}}}\|area={{{area\|}}}\|field={{{field\|}}}\|area-free={{{area-free\|}}}		\|swatch={{{class\|field_ML}}}\|class=manual flag\|lang={{{lang\|en}}}\|PPPA2={{{1\|}}}\|sense={{{2\|}}}\|ins={{{3\|}}}\|area={{{area\|}}}\|field={{{field\|}}}\|area-free={{{area-free\|}}}
	\| PPPA = {{label\|{{{lang\|}}}		\| PPPA = {{label\|{{{lang\|}}}
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	</dl>		</dl>

	== ~~Usage notes~~ ==		== Background ==

			This proposition has two major forms: the positive claim that Stalin's Marxism {{em\|is}} Leninism, and the negative claim that Stalin's Marxism {{em\|is not}} Leninism. Because these propositions are about as close as an organic claim about reality can get to being perfect negations of each other, they have been combined into the same Item.

			The main sense of this proposition, sense "ML", is the claim that the corpus of Marxist theory built up by the Communist Party of the Soviet Union prior to 1950 is a valid form of Marxism with nothing in particular to disqualify it — that if one considers most of the works of Lenin to be valid Marxism, then Lenin and Stalin have made similar numbers of errors and Stalin's contributions are approximately as valid. This particular Item does not attempt to set up Stalin's Marxism as "mainstream", even though there are good arguments for that, and this proposition can be used in the process of reaching them.

			The second sense of this proposition, sense {{TTS\|tts=Fourth\|IV}}, is the claim that by 1950 the theories of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union had become invalid and that at some point Stalin's contributions became unacceptable.

	=== sense IV ===		=== sense IV ===

Reversedragon: proposition box

2026-03-10T08:01:13Z

proposition box

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:01, 10 March 2026
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	=== Main sense ===		=== Main sense ===

	<blockquote class="wikitable poem">		<blockquote class="wikitable poem proposition"><strong>Stalin's Marxism is a valid Marxism, is a form of Leninism</strong><span>, and could hypothetically be the most correct form of Leninism</span></blockquote>
	<strong>Stalin's Marxism is a valid Marxism, is a form of Leninism</strong>, and could hypothetically be the most correct form of Leninism
	</blockquote>

	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
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	=== Characteristics (sense {{TTS\|tts=Fourth\|IV}}) ===		=== Characteristics (sense {{TTS\|tts=Fourth\|IV}}) ===

	<blockquote class="wikitable poem">		<blockquote class="wikitable poem proposition"><span>Only the corpus of theory that Lenin described circa 1906 is actually Leninism, but Stalin deviated from this earliest form of Leninism, therefore </span><strong>anything Stalin created is a revisionist Marxism and [[E:Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism\|is not Leninism]]</strong><span>; because Stalin's Marxism is not Leninism the label "Marxism-Leninism" is incorrect</span></blockquote>
	Only the corpus of theory that Lenin described circa 1906 is actually Leninism, but Stalin deviated from this earliest form of Leninism, therefore <strong>anything Stalin created is a revisionist Marxism and [[E:Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism\|is not Leninism]]</strong>; because Stalin's Marxism is not Leninism the label "Marxism-Leninism" is incorrect
	</blockquote>

	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">

Reversedragon: Full propositions / combinations / test out in-text highlighters

2026-03-10T07:45:27Z

Full propositions / combinations / test out in-text highlighters

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:45, 10 March 2026
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	== Core characteristics ==		== Core characteristics ==

			=== Main sense ===

			<blockquote class="wikitable poem">
			<strong>Stalin's Marxism is a valid Marxism, is a form of Leninism</strong>, and could hypothetically be the most correct form of Leninism
			</blockquote>

	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\|lang=en\| {{E:Q4002}} }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\|lang=en\| {{E:Q4002}} \| (... [[E:Q4002/PPPA\|fuller list of aliases]]) }}<!--
	{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\|lang=en\| ~~Stalin's Marxism is a form of Leninism, and could hypothetically be the most correct one~~ }}~~<!--~~		omitted: {{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\|lang=en\| -- }}
	omitted: {{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| -- }} -- en: QID references -->		omitted: {{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| -- }} -- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:Q41,03}} }} <!-- en: field Stalin's Marxism -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:Q41,03}} }} <!-- en: field Stalin's Marxism -->
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	</dl>		</dl>

	=== Characteristics (sense IV) ===		=== Characteristics (sense {{TTS\|tts=Fourth\|IV}}) ===

			<blockquote class="wikitable poem">
			Only the corpus of theory that Lenin described circa 1906 is actually Leninism, but Stalin deviated from this earliest form of Leninism, therefore <strong>anything Stalin created is a revisionist Marxism and [[E:Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism\|is not Leninism]]</strong>; because Stalin's Marxism is not Leninism the label "Marxism-Leninism" is incorrect
			</blockquote>

	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\|lang=en\| {{E:Q4002/IV}} ~~\| [[E:Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism]]~~ }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\|lang=en\| {{E:Q4002/IV}} }}<!--
	{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\|lang=en\| ~~He calls it Marxism~~-~~Leninism, but it isn't really Leninism \| Marxism~~-Leninism as disputed theory (proposition) \| Stalin Thought is a revisionist Leninism \| Only the Leninism that Lenin described circa 1906 is actually Leninism, therefore anything Stalin created is not Leninism }}		omitted: {{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\|lang=en\| -- }} -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:Q41,04}} }} <!-- en: field Trotskyism -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:Q41,04}} }} <!-- en: field Trotskyism -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| {{E:Q618/IV\|foundational assumption in Trotskyism}} [[Category:Trotskyist assumptions ontology]] \| {{E:Q618/W\|statement that a named Marxism is the only real Marxism}} \| {{E:Q618/PT\|statement that another ideology is heresy}} }} <!-- en: sub-case of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| {{E:Q618/IV\|foundational assumption in Trotskyism}} [[Category:Trotskyist assumptions ontology]] \| {{E:Q618/W\|statement that a named Marxism is the only real Marxism}} \| {{E:Q618/PT\|statement that another ideology is heresy}} }} <!-- en: sub-case of -->
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	{{WaveBuildNone\| {{E:Q4002}} \| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? ?? -->		{{WaveBuildNone\| {{E:Q4002}} \| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? ?? -->
	{{WaveBuildNone\| {{E:Q4002/IV}} \| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? ?? -->		{{WaveBuildNone\| {{E:Q4002/IV}} \| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? ?? -->
			</dl>

			=== Wavebuilder characterizations ===

			<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
			{{WaveBuildNone\| {{E:Q4002/IV}} \| {{E:Q618/DX\|Leninism is for defending Soviet borders}} \| {{E:Q4002}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces The purpose of Leninism is to defend Soviet borders ?? -->
			{{WaveBuildNone\| {{E:Q618/IV\|Abandon Trotsky and Bolshevism has failed}} \| {{E:Q618/IV\|Stalin expelled Trotskyists from {{TTS\|tts=the party\|CPSU\|title=Communist Party of the Soviet Union}}}} \| {{E:Q4002/IV}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? ?? -->
	</dl>		</dl>

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	=== sense IV ===		=== sense IV ===
			<div class="hue">
			<!-- [[E:Trotskyism\|Trotskyism]] [[E:mainstream Marxism-Leninism\|mainstream Marxism-Leninism]] [[E:separable multiplicity\|plural]] Marxisms -->

	This is the claim within [[E~~:Trotskyism~~\|~~Trotskyism]]~~ that ~~[[E:~~mainstream Marxism-Leninism\|~~mainstream Marxism-Leninism]]~~ is supposedly not either mainstream or Leninism. It rests on the implicit claim that Trotskyism is the only possible content of Leninism, and any "Leninism" which is not equivalent to Trotskyism is thus not a Leninism.		This is the claim within {{dfn\|Trotskyism\|I=Z1/IV\|E=Q4104\|class=field_trotsky}} that {{dfn\|mainstream Marxism-Leninism\|I=Z1/ML\|E=Q41,03\|class=field_ML}} is supposedly not either mainstream or Leninism. It rests on the implicit claim that Trotskyism is the only possible content of Leninism, and any "Leninism" which is not equivalent to Trotskyism is thus not a Leninism.

	This claim is called into question by all the times that Trotsky had differences with Lenin and the two got into arguments. The [[E:Trotsky's trade unions incident\|trade unions incident]] of 1920 was one of the more notable of these mistakes: within it, Trotsky presented a garbled understanding of unions while Lenin had to lay out the actual relationship between a Leninist party and the trade unions as a "complex arrangement of pulleys" where wisdom and experts would need to [[Term:filtration\|filter into]] the party.<ref name="m" /> If Trotsky did not understand how unions produce a Marxist party as the backbone of a workers' state three years after the Russian revolution, but Lenin did, this is not a good sign for Trotsky's legitimacy as the main theorist of Leninism. It is possible to attempt to argue against this observation from the angle that Trotskyism is a later variation of Leninism attempting to fix it by removing the parts which would produce a "[[E:Pig state]]" even as Lenin left them in. However, if one takes this point of view, it does not achieve the goal of aligning Trotsky with Lenin against Stalin; it would instead leave Lenin and Stalin aligned against Trotsky, meaning that Stalin is still the legitimate theoretical successor to Lenin. This problem only becomes glaringly obvious within a [[E:meta-Marxism\|meta-Marxist framework]], where neither Stalin nor Trotsky is taken as the only official Marxism. Within Trotskyism, it is not advantageous to label different schools of Marxism and model how each of them behaves as much as to [[E:Che Guevara got his ideas from Trotsky\|support Marxisms that appear to be merging into Trotskyism]] and denounce all other Marxisms and their connected national independence struggles as threats to world revolution. Within mainstream Marxism-Leninism, theorists have been more open to understanding the behavior of Trotskyism than vice versa, even if this was primarily for the purpose of protecting workers' states by catching Trotskyite conspiracies. Stepping outside of Trotskyism, it becomes more obvious that Lenin's period, Stalin's period, and Trotskyist movements are all [[Term:historical period chemistry\|material-historical periods]]. To predict the behavior of each of these periods, we should understand them from their internal structure and how this structure interacts with itself. The internal content of Lenin's period and Stalin's period includes experts or "bureaucrats" in both cases, while the internal content of Trotskyism is different.		This claim is called into question by all the times that Trotsky had differences with Lenin and the two got into arguments. The [[E:Trotsky's trade unions incident\|trade unions incident]] of 1920 was one of the more notable of these mistakes: within it, Trotsky presented a garbled understanding of unions while Lenin had to lay out the actual relationship between a Leninist party and the trade unions as a "complex arrangement of pulleys" where wisdom and experts would need to [[Term:filtration\|filter into]] the party.<ref name="m" /> If Trotsky did not understand how unions produce a Marxist party as the backbone of a workers' state three years after the Russian revolution, but Lenin did, this is not a good sign for Trotsky's legitimacy as the main theorist of Leninism. It is possible to attempt to argue against this observation from the angle that Trotskyism is a later variation of Leninism attempting to fix it by removing the parts which would produce a "[[E:Pig state\|Pig state]]" even as Lenin left them in. However, if one takes this point of view, it does not achieve the goal of aligning Trotsky with Lenin against Stalin; it would instead leave Lenin and Stalin aligned against Trotsky, meaning that Stalin is still the legitimate theoretical successor to Lenin. This problem only becomes glaringly obvious within a [[E:meta-Marxism\|meta-Marxist framework]], where neither Stalin nor Trotsky is taken as the only official Marxism. Within Trotskyism, it is not advantageous to label different schools of Marxism and model how each of them behaves as much as to [[E:Che Guevara got his ideas from Trotsky\|support Marxisms that appear to be merging into Trotskyism]] and denounce all other Marxisms and their connected national independence struggles as threats to world revolution. Within mainstream Marxism-Leninism, theorists have been more open to understanding the behavior of Trotskyism than vice versa, even if this was primarily for the purpose of protecting workers' states by catching Trotskyite conspiracies. Stepping outside of Trotskyism, it becomes more obvious that Lenin's period, Stalin's period, and Trotskyist movements are all [[Term:historical period chemistry\|material-historical periods]]. To predict the behavior of each of these periods, we should understand them from their internal structure and how this structure interacts with itself. The internal content of Lenin's period and Stalin's period includes experts or "bureaucrats" in both cases, while the internal content of Trotskyism is different.

	Trotsky's claim is not historically accurate and it does not show an understanding of the development of ~~[[E:separable multiplicity~~\|plural]] Marxisms — not even to the advantage of Trotskyism as its own new Marxism. There is no meaningful way to say that this claim is true.		Trotsky's claim is not historically accurate and it does not show an understanding of the development of {{dfn\|plural Marxisms\|I=S1/MX\|E=Q10,000\|class=field_mdem}} — not even to the advantage of Trotskyism as its own new Marxism. There is no meaningful way to say that this claim is true.

			</div>
	== References ==		== References ==

Reversedragon: separate positive and negative senses

2026-03-10T00:03:41Z

separate positive and negative senses

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:03, 10 March 2026
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	{{ArticleTitle\|Stalin's Marxism ~~isn't~~ Leninism - IV / F2 / Q4002\|NoContents=y}}{{HueNumberPreview\|E=Q4002}}<!--		{{ArticleTitle\|Stalin's Marxism is (not) a Leninism - ML, IV / S2 / Q4002\|NoContents=y}}{{HueNumberPreview\|E=Q4002}}<!--
	--><includeonly><onlyinclude>{{HueEntity\|I=F2/IV\|Q=4002\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1 <!-- three braces: changeable arguments -->		--><includeonly><onlyinclude>{{HueEntity\|I={{{I\|S2/ML}}}\|Q=4002\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1 <!-- three braces: changeable arguments -->
	\|swatch={{{class\|~~field_trotsky~~}}}\|class=manual flag\|lang={{{lang\|en}}}\|PPPA2={{{1\|}}}\|sense={{{2\|}}}\|ins={{{3\|}}}\|area={{{area\|}}}\|field={{{field\|}}}\|area-free={{{area-free\|}}}		\|swatch={{{class\|field_ML}}}\|class=manual flag\|lang={{{lang\|en}}}\|PPPA2={{{1\|}}}\|sense={{{2\|}}}\|ins={{{3\|}}}\|area={{{area\|}}}\|field={{{field\|}}}\|area-free={{{area-free\|}}}
	\| PPPA = {{label\|{{{lang\|}}}		\| PPPA = {{label\|{{{lang\|}}}
	\| en = Stalin's Marxism ~~isn't~~ Leninism }}		\| en = Stalin's Marxism is Leninism }}
	\|numbersign = 404\|enddfn=1}}{{#switch: {{{C\|}}} \| Q = [[C:Trotskyism ontology]] }}</onlyinclude></includeonly><!--		\|numbersign = 404\|enddfn=1}}{{#switch: {{{C\|}}} \| Q = [[C:Trotskyism ontology]] }}</onlyinclude></includeonly><!--
	duplication hint: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q4002]]		duplication hint: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q4002]]
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	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:F2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:S2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\| {{E:Q4002}} ~~\| [[E:Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism]]~~ }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\|lang=en\| {{E:Q4002}} }}
	{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\| ~~He calls it Marxism-Leninism, but it isn~~'~~t really Leninism \|~~ Marxism~~-Leninism as disputed theory (proposition) \| Stalin Thought~~ is a ~~revisionist~~ Leninism ~~\| Only~~ the ~~Leninism that Lenin described circa 1906 is actually Leninism, therefore anything Stalin created is not Leninism~~ }}		{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\|lang=en\| Stalin's Marxism is a form of Leninism, and could hypothetically be the most correct one }}<!--
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| -- }} <!-- en: QID references -->		omitted: {{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| -- }} -- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:~~Q4104~~}} }} <!-- en: field ~~Trotskyism~~ -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:Q41,03}} }} <!-- en: field Stalin's Marxism -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| ~~foundational assumption in Trotskyism [[Category:Trotskyist assumptions ontology]] \| statement that a named Marxism is the only real Marxism \| statement that another ideology is heresy~~ }} <!-- en: sub-case of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| -- }} <!-- en: sub-case of -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| -- }} <!-- en: case of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| -- }} <!-- en: case of -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: super-case of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: super-case of -->
	</dl>		</dl>

	=== Components ===		=== Characteristics (sense IV) ===

			<dl class="wikitable hue">
			{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\|lang=en\| {{E:Q4002/IV}} \| [[E:Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism]] }}
			{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\|lang=en\| He calls it Marxism-Leninism, but it isn't really Leninism \| Marxism-Leninism as disputed theory (proposition) \| Stalin Thought is a revisionist Leninism \| Only the Leninism that Lenin described circa 1906 is actually Leninism, therefore anything Stalin created is not Leninism }}
			{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:Q41,04}} }} <!-- en: field Trotskyism -->
			{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| {{E:Q618/IV\|foundational assumption in Trotskyism}} [[Category:Trotskyist assumptions ontology]] \| {{E:Q618/W\|statement that a named Marxism is the only real Marxism}} \| {{E:Q618/PT\|statement that another ideology is heresy}} }} <!-- en: sub-case of -->
			</dl>

			== Components ==

	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueRoster\|P=model combines claims\| -- }}		{{HueRoster\|P=model combines claims\| -- }}
	</dl>		</dl>
			<!--
	=== Use in thesis portals ===		=== Use in thesis portals ===

	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P14\| -- }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=P14\| -- }}
	</dl>		</dl> -->

	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==

	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveBuildNone\| -- \| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: ~~WITH~~ ?? ~~PRODUCES~~ ?? -->		{{WaveBuildNone\| {{E:Q4002}} \| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? ?? -->
			{{WaveBuildNone\| {{E:Q4002/IV}} \| -- \| -- }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? ?? -->
	</dl>		</dl>

	== Usage notes ==		== Usage notes ==

			=== sense IV ===

	This is the claim within [[E:Trotskyism\|Trotskyism]] that [[E:mainstream Marxism-Leninism\|mainstream Marxism-Leninism]] is supposedly not either mainstream or Leninism. It rests on the implicit claim that Trotskyism is the only possible content of Leninism, and any "Leninism" which is not equivalent to Trotskyism is thus not a Leninism.		This is the claim within [[E:Trotskyism\|Trotskyism]] that [[E:mainstream Marxism-Leninism\|mainstream Marxism-Leninism]] is supposedly not either mainstream or Leninism. It rests on the implicit claim that Trotskyism is the only possible content of Leninism, and any "Leninism" which is not equivalent to Trotskyism is thus not a Leninism.

Reversedragon: copy or update formatting from Q92

2026-03-09T23:30:40Z

copy or update formatting from Q92

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:30, 9 March 2026
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	{{~~HueCSS~~}}<~~ol class="hue clean compound"~~><li>		{{ArticleTitle\|Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism - IV / F2 / Q4002\|NoContents=y}}{{HueNumberPreview\|E=Q4002}}<!--
	<onlyinclude>~~<dfn class="field_trotsky manual" data-dimension~~="F2~~" data-qid~~="4002~~" data-numbersign~~=~~"404" data~~-~~field="" data~~-~~series="" data~~-~~work="" data~~-~~chapter~~=~~"" data-tale~~=~~"" data-object~~=~~"" data-note~~=~~"" data-lexeme~~=~~"">~~{{~~IF2~~}}{{~~#if:~~ {{{1\|}}} \| ~~[[E:Q4002~~\|{{{1}}}]] \| ~~[[E:Q4002~~\|Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism]] }}~~{{WaveScore~~\|~~sum~~=1\|~~quilt~~=1\|~~ply~~=1}}~~</dfn>~~</onlyinclude>		--><includeonly><onlyinclude>{{HueEntity\|I=F2/IV\|Q=4002\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1 <!-- three braces: changeable arguments -->
	~~</li~~></ol><!-- ~~change summary template~~: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q4002]] --> ~~__NOTOC__~~		\|swatch={{{class\|field_trotsky}}}\|class=manual flag\|lang={{{lang\|en}}}\|PPPA2={{{1\|}}}\|sense={{{2\|}}}\|ins={{{3\|}}}\|area={{{area\|}}}\|field={{{field\|}}}\|area-free={{{area-free\|}}}
			\| PPPA = {{label\|{{{lang\|}}}
			\| en = Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism }}
			\|numbersign = 404\|enddfn=1}}{{#switch: {{{C\|}}} \| Q = [[C:Trotskyism ontology]] }}</onlyinclude></includeonly><!--
			duplication hint: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q4002]]
			broken category syntax: \|CQ = [[C:Trotskyism ontology]] -->

	== Core characteristics ==		== Core characteristics ==

Reversedragon: category

2025-07-31T01:52:01Z

Reversedragon: Usage notes

2025-07-31T01:43:08Z

Usage notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:43, 31 July 2025
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	{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:F2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:F2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\| {{E:Q4002}} }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\| {{E:Q4002}} }}
	{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\| He calls it Marxism-Leninism, but it isn't really Leninism \| Stalin Thought is a revisionist Leninism ~~\| Marxism-Leninism (disputed theory)~~ \| Only the Leninism that Lenin described circa 1906 is actually Leninism, therefore anything Stalin created is not Leninism }}		{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\| He calls it Marxism-Leninism, but it isn't really Leninism \| Marxism-Leninism as disputed theory (proposition) \| Stalin Thought is a revisionist Leninism \| Only the Leninism that Lenin described circa 1906 is actually Leninism, therefore anything Stalin created is not Leninism }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| -- }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| -- }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:Q4104}} }} <!-- en: field Trotskyism -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:Q4104}} }} <!-- en: field Trotskyism -->
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	</dl>		</dl>

	== ~~[[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand\|Prototype]]~~ notes ==		== Usage notes ==

	~~<ol start="4000" class="hue clean">~~		This is the claim within [[E:Trotskyism\|Trotskyism]] that [[E:mainstream Marxism-Leninism\|mainstream Marxism-Leninism]] is supposedly not either mainstream or Leninism. It rests on the implicit claim that Trotskyism is the only possible content of Leninism, and any "Leninism" which is not equivalent to Trotskyism is thus not a Leninism.
	~~</li><li class="field_trotsky" value="4002" data-dimension="S2">He calls it~~ Marxism-Leninism~~, but it isn't really Leninism /~~ Marxism-Leninism ~~(disputed theory) -> components:~~ the ~~most correct~~ Leninism is Trotskyism~~, Stalin Thought~~ is a ~~revisionist~~ Leninism
	~~</li></ol>~~

	=~~= Usage notes ==~~		This claim is called into question by all the times that Trotsky had differences with Lenin and the two got into arguments. The [[E:Trotsky's trade unions incident\|trade unions incident]] of 1920 was one of the more notable of these mistakes: within it, Trotsky presented a garbled understanding of unions while Lenin had to lay out the actual relationship between a Leninist party and the trade unions as a "complex arrangement of pulleys" where wisdom and experts would need to [[Term:filtration\|filter into]] the party.<ref name="m" /> If Trotsky did not understand how unions produce a Marxist party as the backbone of a workers' state three years after the Russian revolution, but Lenin did, this is not a good sign for Trotsky's legitimacy as the main theorist of Leninism. It is possible to attempt to argue against this observation from the angle that Trotskyism is a later variation of Leninism attempting to fix it by removing the parts which would produce a "[[E:Pig state]]" even as Lenin left them in. However, if one takes this point of view, it does not achieve the goal of aligning Trotsky with Lenin against Stalin; it would instead leave Lenin and Stalin aligned against Trotsky, meaning that Stalin is still the legitimate theoretical successor to Lenin. This problem only becomes glaringly obvious within a [[E:meta-Marxism\|meta-Marxist framework]], where neither Stalin nor Trotsky is taken as the only official Marxism. Within Trotskyism, it is not advantageous to label different schools of Marxism and model how each of them behaves as much as to [[E:Che Guevara got his ideas from Trotsky\|support Marxisms that appear to be merging into Trotskyism]] and denounce all other Marxisms and their connected national independence struggles as threats to world revolution. Within mainstream Marxism-Leninism, theorists have been more open to understanding the behavior of Trotskyism than vice versa, even if this was primarily for the purpose of protecting workers' states by catching Trotskyite conspiracies. Stepping outside of Trotskyism, it becomes more obvious that Lenin's period, Stalin's period, and Trotskyist movements are all [[Term:historical period chemistry\|material-historical periods]]. To predict the behavior of each of these periods, we should understand them from their internal structure and how this structure interacts with itself. The internal content of Lenin's period and Stalin's period includes experts or "bureaucrats" in both cases, while the internal content of Trotskyism is different.

			Trotsky's claim is not historically accurate and it does not show an understanding of the development of [[E:separable multiplicity\|plural]] Marxisms — not even to the advantage of Trotskyism as its own new Marxism. There is no meaningful way to say that this claim is true.

	This is the claim within Trotskyism that [[E:mainstream Marxism-Leninism\|mainstream Marxism-Leninism]] is supposedly not either mainstream or Leninism. It rests on the implicit claim that Trotskyism is the only possible content of Leninism, and any "Leninism" which is not equivalent to Trotskyism is thus not a Leninism.
	~~<!--~~
	== References ==		== References ==

	<references>		<references>
	<ref name="a"></ref>		<ref name="m"><cite class="article">The trade unions, the present situation, and Trotsky's mistakes</cite> (Lenin 1920). [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/dec/30.htm] [Item pending]</ref>
	</references>		</references>
	~~-->~~

Reversedragon: copy or update fake Item from Q42,16

2025-07-30T18:25:49Z

copy or update fake Item from Q42,16

New page

{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li>
<onlyinclude><dfn class="field_trotsky manual" data-dimension="F2" data-qid="4002" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IF2}}{{#if: {{{1|}}} | [[E:Q4002|{{{1}}}]] | [[E:Q4002|Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism]] }}{{WaveScore|sum=1|quilt=1|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude>
</li></ol> __NOTOC__

== Core characteristics ==

<dl class="wikitable hue">
{{HueClaim |P=item type| {{Template:F2}} }}
{{HueRoster|EP=PPPA/L| {{E:Q4002}} }}
{{HueClaim |EP=PPPA| He calls it Marxism-Leninism, but it isn't really Leninism | Stalin Thought is a revisionist Leninism | Marxism-Leninism (disputed theory) | Only the Leninism that Lenin described circa 1906 is actually Leninism, therefore anything Stalin created is not Leninism }}
{{HueRoster|EP=P42| -- }} 
{{HueRoster|EP=P34| {{E:Q4104}} }} 
{{HueRoster|EP=P3| statement that a named Marxism is the only real Marxism | statement that another ideology is heresy }} 
{{HueRoster|EP=P4| -- }} 
{{HueRoster|EP=P5| -- }} 
</dl>

=== Components ===

<dl class="wikitable hue">
{{HueRoster|P=model combines claims| -- }}
</dl>

=== Use in thesis portals ===

<dl class="wikitable hue">
{{HueRoster|EP=P14| -- }}
</dl>

== Wavebuilder combinations ==

<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
{{WaveBuildNone| -- | -- | -- }} 
</dl>

== [[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand|Prototype]] notes ==

<ol start="4000" class="hue clean">
</li><li class="field_trotsky" value="4002" data-dimension="S2">He calls it Marxism-Leninism, but it isn't really Leninism / Marxism-Leninism (disputed theory) -> components: the most correct Leninism is Trotskyism, Stalin Thought is a revisionist Leninism
</li></ol>

== Usage notes ==

This is the claim within Trotskyism that [[E:mainstream Marxism-Leninism|mainstream Marxism-Leninism]] is supposedly not either mainstream or Leninism. It rests on the implicit claim that Trotskyism is the only possible content of Leninism, and any "Leninism" which is not equivalent to Trotskyism is thus not a Leninism.

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:30, 9 March 2026
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	{{~~HueCSS~~}}<~~ol class="hue clean compound"~~><li>		{{ArticleTitle\|Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism - IV / F2 / Q4002\|NoContents=y}}{{HueNumberPreview\|E=Q4002}}<!--
	<onlyinclude>~~<dfn class="field_trotsky manual" data-dimension~~="F2~~" data-qid~~="4002~~" data-numbersign~~=~~"404" data~~-~~field="" data~~-~~series="" data~~-~~work="" data~~-~~chapter~~=~~"" data-tale~~=~~"" data-object~~=~~"" data-note~~=~~"" data-lexeme~~=~~"">~~{{~~IF2~~}}{{~~#if:~~ {{{1\|}}} \| ~~[[E:Q4002~~\|{{{1}}}]] \| ~~[[E:Q4002~~\|Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism]] }}~~{{WaveScore~~\|~~sum~~=1\|~~quilt~~=1\|~~ply~~=1}}~~</dfn>~~</onlyinclude>		--><includeonly><onlyinclude>{{HueEntity\|I=F2/IV\|Q=4002\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1 <!-- three braces: changeable arguments -->
	~~</li~~></ol><!-- ~~change summary template~~: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q4002]] --> ~~__NOTOC__~~		\|swatch={{{class\|field_trotsky}}}\|class=manual flag\|lang={{{lang\|en}}}\|PPPA2={{{1\|}}}\|sense={{{2\|}}}\|ins={{{3\|}}}\|area={{{area\|}}}\|field={{{field\|}}}\|area-free={{{area-free\|}}}
			\| PPPA = {{label\|{{{lang\|}}}
			\| en = Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism }}
			\|numbersign = 404\|enddfn=1}}{{#switch: {{{C\|}}} \| Q = [[C:Trotskyism ontology]] }}</onlyinclude></includeonly><!--
			duplication hint: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q4002]]
			broken category syntax: \|CQ = [[C:Trotskyism ontology]] -->

	== Core characteristics ==		== Core characteristics ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:52, 31 July 2025
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	<dl class="wikitable hue">		<dl class="wikitable hue">
	{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:F2}} }}		{{HueClaim \|P=item type\| {{Template:F2}} }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\| {{E:Q4002}} }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=PPPA/L\| {{E:Q4002}} \| [[E:Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism]] }}
	{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\| He calls it Marxism-Leninism, but it isn't really Leninism \| Marxism-Leninism as disputed theory (proposition) \| Stalin Thought is a revisionist Leninism \| Only the Leninism that Lenin described circa 1906 is actually Leninism, therefore anything Stalin created is not Leninism }}		{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\| He calls it Marxism-Leninism, but it isn't really Leninism \| Marxism-Leninism as disputed theory (proposition) \| Stalin Thought is a revisionist Leninism \| Only the Leninism that Lenin described circa 1906 is actually Leninism, therefore anything Stalin created is not Leninism }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| -- }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| -- }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:Q4104}} }} <!-- en: field Trotskyism -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:Q4104}} }} <!-- en: field Trotskyism -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| statement that a named Marxism is the only real Marxism \| statement that another ideology is heresy }} <!-- en: sub-case of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| foundational assumption in Trotskyism [[Category:Trotskyist assumptions ontology]] \| statement that a named Marxism is the only real Marxism \| statement that another ideology is heresy }} <!-- en: sub-case of -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| -- }} <!-- en: case of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| -- }} <!-- en: case of -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: super-case of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: super-case of -->