Ontology:Q65,49 - Revision history

Reversedragon: combination: Game worlds are cultural fabrications

2025-12-22T13:56:08Z

combination: Game worlds are cultural fabrications

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:56, 22 December 2025
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	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveRoute\| {{E:Q65,47}} \| {{E:Q618/A\|Political factions are social constructs}} \| {{E:Q65,49}} }} <!-- en: From The Soviet Union functioned as a political faction ?? -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{E:Q65,47}} \| {{E:Q618/A\|Political factions are social constructs}} \| {{E:Q65,49}} }} <!-- en: From The Soviet Union functioned as a political faction ?? -->
			{{WaveRoute\| {{E:Q61,10}} \| {{E:Q618/ML\|history of the USSR}} \| {{E:Q65,49}} }} <!-- en: From Game worlds are cultural fabrications ?? -->
	{{WaveRoute\| {{E:~~Q618/A\|Game worlds are cultural fabrications~~}} \| {{E:Q618/ML\|history of the USSR}} \| {{E:Q65,49}} }} <!-- en: From ?? ?? -->
	</dl>		</dl>

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	[[Category:Pages serving as current format examples]]		[[Category:Pages serving as current format examples]] <!-- page ends here.
			TTS-unfriendly, search-friendly numbers: Q6110 Q6547 Q6549 Q7617
			-->

Reversedragon: clarify scenario / alias table

2025-12-22T11:36:16Z

clarify scenario / alias table

Show changes

Reversedragon: Background

2025-09-03T03:14:11Z

Background

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:14, 3 September 2025
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	{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\|lang=en\| The opposition of Liberal-republican countries against the Soviet Union was nothing more than a social construct in which Liberal-republican countries made up reasons to hate the 14 nationalities of the Soviet Union for reasons largely unrelated to the class composition of the two countries, and related more to the affinity between the 14 major Soviet ethnic groups and the anomalous, hateful non-affinity between the United States and those ethnic groups }}		{{HueClaim \|EP=PPPA\|lang=en\| The opposition of Liberal-republican countries against the Soviet Union was nothing more than a social construct in which Liberal-republican countries made up reasons to hate the 14 nationalities of the Soviet Union for reasons largely unrelated to the class composition of the two countries, and related more to the affinity between the 14 major Soviet ethnic groups and the anomalous, hateful non-affinity between the United States and those ethnic groups }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| -- }} <!-- en: QID references -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P42\| -- }} <!-- en: QID references -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| -- }}		{{HueRoster\|EP=P34\| {{E:Q618/ES\|poststructuralism}} \| {{E:Q618/ES\|schizoanalysis}} \| {{E:Q618/A\|postcolonial theories}} \| (most appropriate tradition unknown) }}
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P3\| -- }} <!-- en: subset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| {{E:Q618/A\|derived anarchist proposition}} }} <!-- en: case of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| {{E:Q618/A\|derived anarchist proposition}} \| {{E:Q618/ES\|derived Existentialist proposition}} }} <!-- en: case of -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->
	{{HueRoster\|P=difficulty to refute\| easy (1 day or less) }}		{{HueRoster\|P=difficulty to refute\| easy (1 day or less) }}
	{{HueRoster\|P=difficulty to falsify\| ~~nightmare~~ }}		{{HueRoster\|P=difficulty to falsify\| very hard (90 days or more) }}
	</dl>		</dl>

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	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveRoute\| -- \| -- \| {{E:Q65,49}} }} <!-- en: From ?? ?? -->		{{WaveRoute\| {{E:Q65,47}} \| {{E:Q618/A\|Political factions are social constructs}} \| {{E:Q65,49}} }} <!-- en: From The Soviet Union functioned as a political faction ?? -->
	</dl>		</dl>

	== [[~~User~~:~~Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand~~\|~~Prototype~~]] ~~notes~~ ==		== Background ==

			In various philosophies with a vague [[E:anarchism\|charcoal]] tint to them, it has recently become popular to characterize wars and acts of imperialism as cultural fabrications. One of the most well-known manifestations of this in the arts is {{book\|Undertale\|E=Q7616}} — the game presents a path of peace to the player not in a statement that real-world history has [[E:general-sense historical materialism\|multiple repeating patterns that can potentially apply to each situation]], but rather in a statement that console RPG worlds are wholly made up and don't require compliance.<ref name="dr" group="n"/> Theories self-labeling as <i>postcolonial theories</i> will claim that acts of empire are a matter of "attitudes" and "cultural conditioning" and that empires are "engineered" by a few people at the top. Theories self-labeling as <i>anarchisms</i> will actually begin to propose some vague model for how the physical layout of empires is anomalous and suggestively present some other kind of layout such as tribal society. Yet other theories will chew up and regurgitate the same themes seen in obvious <i>postcolonial theories</i> and <i>anarchisms</i>, as with schizoanalysis pointing out the concept of empires oppressively hammering individuals into the shape of what they consider normal, and poststructuralism attempting to tear apart the entire concept of language to various degrees to attempt to take away the power of empires to order any particular abstract concept inside society into a particular ontological shape. The common theme that emerges across [[:Category:Existentialist-Structuralist tradition ontology\|several supposedly separate philosophies]] is the concept of [[E:undialectical idealism, historical non-materialism, and class non-analysis\|Materialism being inapplicable to history]] because there is no predictive significance to people being arranged into any particular population or configuration of populations.

			With that in mind, this is the claim that the Cold War was not a conflict based on classes or the material consequences of population arrangements and instead was somehow based in prejudices, attitudes, and arbitrary teachings of what history was or will be. This claim does not permit any understanding of the Soviet Union as based in class analysis; within this framing, the Soviet Union must be understood as a deliberate joining of 14 major ethnic groups specifically because they are in some sense culturally compatible and wished to join into the same Soviet culture or "community". Likewise, the United States and Europe cannot be understood as based in the material behavior of the bourgeoisie; as any center-Liberal social-democrat would be quick to point out, some bourgeoisie will become class traitors, therefore blue and charcoal theories will quickly argue that people's actual behavior does not come specifically from their class position, so the only theory that explains and predicts everyone's behavior accurately would have to go "deeper" or "smaller" than classes to ask what it is that connects class traitors to other individuals. There are ways to achieve this kind of model which do not actually lean on the concepts of social construction or prejudices and instead lean on Materialism. Within a [[E:meta-Marxism\|meta-Marxist]] framework, a figure such as Trotsky or Che Guevara becomes part of a material "[[E:shovel (meta-Marxism)\|ideology object]]" combining workers and theorists into one of the possible [[:Category:Bauplan ontologies\|physical shapes of Leninism]] instead of that person simply being part of a class-sorted subpopulation; Trotsky physically leaves the object of assembled people called the bourgeoisie and joins the object of assembled people called Leninism or Bolshevism. That said, charcoal-leaning ideologies tend to seriously dislike the concept of any group of people being a single material object, all too keen on branding such an object a "hierarchy" even in the case only [[E:central party\|tiny fractions of it]] take the shape of a [[E:spatial slot hierarchy\|spatial slot hierarchy]]. This proposition is meant to be a genuinely charcoal look at Soviet history, and in light of this, this proposition does not permit the meta-Marxist concept of party-nations as necessary objects or layouts. For the purposes of this proposition, the Soviet Union is a social construct, it doesn't have to exist if the individuals in it don't want it to exist, and whatever arrangement of "communities" or new ethnic groups people spontaneously feel like forming into one day at the expense of the arrangements they were already in is the correct arrangement. This is the foundation you must proceed from to build out this proposition and use it to argue that the Cold War was inhumane and unnecessary.

	~~<ol class="hue clean">~~		There are a few things this proposition does not explicitly include that thus will not be requirements for arguing its point, although they could easily be helpful as supporting propositions. It does not require presenting a specific method for how charcoal ideologies could have won the Russian Revolution and defeated the Russian empire without Marxism. It does not require presenting a specific material method for winning the Cold War which would be more effective than Stalin's Marxism. The main requirement for arguing this proposition is simply that you must be able to argue that a country full of racist xenophobes and a country with some amount of coexistence and cooperation between people-groups are expected and obligated to be friends, and that the presence of racism and xenophobia will not inherently drive the two populations apart as people attempt to flee racism and sort together with only nice people. You must argue that the separation between United States people and Soviet people is artificial and fabricated rather than protective without accidentally arguing that United States people are entitled to conquer the Soviet Union and turn it into an extension of the United States just because that is the most intuitive image of unifying the two within United States culture and understandings of the world. It is not required to argue {{em\|exactly how}} the United States and the Soviet Union were supposed to abolish the separation between them and join into a greater entity, although giving the basic elements of such a hypothetical process might be helpful.
	~~</li><li class="field_anarchy" value="6549" data-dimension="S2">The~~ Cold War ~~was~~ a ~~social construct / The opposition~~ of ~~Liberal-republican countries against the Soviet Union was nothing more than~~ a ~~social construct in which Liberal~~-~~republican countries made up reasons~~ to ~~hate~~ the ~~14 nationalities~~ of the ~~Soviet Union for reasons largely unrelated~~ to ~~the class composition of the two countries,~~ and ~~related more to~~ the ~~affinity~~ between ~~the 14 major~~ Soviet ~~ethnic groups~~ and ~~the anomalous, hateful non-affinity between the~~ United States and ~~those ethnic groups -> persuade me~~ of ~~this using specifically~~ the ~~Russian Revolution,~~ the ~~Soviet Union, and~~ the ~~Cold War,~~ and ~~I might genuinely consider postcolonial anarchisms. I feel like~~ the ~~difficulty of arguing that verges on impossible, but maybe that's just me~~. ~~I've made it a little easier by leaving out the requirement that anarchism explains how~~ to ~~defeat the Russian empire or <~~em~~>win</em>~~ the ~~Cold War,~~ and ~~only handing you~~ the ~~impossible task of arguing~~ Soviet ~~people and United States racists who~~ to ~~this day can hardly stand~~ the ~~idea of somebody living in another country~~ and ~~being Russian are obligated to be friends. that's what I don't understand. how~~, ~~when United States people are constantly dismissing~~ the ~~existence~~ of ~~reactionaries in their own country as~~ a totally ignorable non- part of their lives, that anarchisms or postcolonial theories that say every opposition between groups of people is an arbitrary decision each group made are supposed to fix anything.
	~~</li></ol>~~

	~~== Background ==~~		This argument, in all likelihood, verges on impossible to pull off, but anarchists are encouraged to give it their all anyway, in the interest of learning more about all the models Marxists claim to be wrong.

	=== Falsification criteria ===		=== Falsification criteria ===
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	* Showing that the population of the Soviet Union and the population of the United States were not automatically predisposed to like each other until governments force them not to, but, for instance, entirely neutral to each other		* Showing that the population of the Soviet Union and the population of the United States were not automatically predisposed to like each other until governments force them not to, but, for instance, entirely neutral to each other
	* Showing that if there were no capitalists <i>per se</i> at any greater scale than co-ops, countries could still end up in a period of tensions very much like the Cold War, and wouldn't simply enter a period of international anarchism as much as an attempt to, warheads or no warheads, "nonviolently" starve each other and tear each other apart		* Showing that if there were no capitalists <i>per se</i> at any greater scale than co-ops, countries could still end up in a period of tensions very much like the Cold War, and wouldn't simply enter a period of international anarchism as much as an attempt to, warheads or no warheads, "nonviolently" starve each other and tear each other apart
			* Using class traitors like Trotsky to demonstrate specifically why the deconstruction of country-objects is separate from class, but also is not something people can spontaneously choose as much as something people are forced into

			== Footnotes ==

			<references group="n">
			<ref name="dr">The theme of video games being nothing but an arbitrary arrangement of objects becomes much clearer in {{book\|Deltarune\|E=Q76,17}}, with themes like the characters in each Dark World becoming monochrome statues when they reach the spatial moment where it ends.</ref>
			</references>


	[[Category:Pages serving as current format examples]]		[[Category:Pages serving as current format examples]]

Reversedragon: difficulty to refute

2025-09-02T12:40:19Z

difficulty to refute

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:40, 2 September 2025
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	{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| {{E:Q618/A\|derived anarchist proposition}} }} <!-- en: case of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P4\| {{E:Q618/A\|derived anarchist proposition}} }} <!-- en: case of -->
	{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->		{{HueRoster\|EP=P5\| -- }} <!-- en: superset of -->
			{{HueRoster\|P=difficulty to refute\| easy (1 day or less) }}
			{{HueRoster\|P=difficulty to falsify\| nightmare }}
	</dl>		</dl>

	~~<!--~~
	== Component claims ==		== Component claims ==

			<!--
	<div class="hue">		<div class="hue">

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	</div>		</div>
			-->
	<ol class="hue clean compound p6 data_proof">		<ol class="hue clean compound p6 data_proof">
	</ol>		</ol>
	-->
			=== Refutation (Marxism) ===

			== Appearances ==

			=== Refutations ===

			<ol class="hue clean compound p6 data_proof">
			{{E:Q618/IV\|The National Question (Luxemburg 1908) \|dimension=Z\|Q=19,08\|li=y}}
			</ol>

	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==

Reversedragon: Falsification criteria

2025-09-02T12:27:41Z

Falsification criteria

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:27, 2 September 2025
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	{{ArticleTitle\|[S2] The Cold War was a social construct - A / Q65,49\|NoContents=y}}		{{ArticleTitle\|[S2] The Cold War was a social construct - A / Q65,49\|NoContents=y}}
	<includeonly><onlyinclude><dfn class="{{{class\|field_anarchy}}} manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="65,49" data-numbersign="404" data-series="" data-work="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2/~~HAS~~}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q65,49\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q65,49\|The Cold War was a social construct]] }}{{#if: {{{3\|}}} \| {{{3}}} }}{{#if: {{{2\|}}} \| <ins class="edition-sense term"> ([[E:Q65,49/{{{2}}}\|{{{2}}}]]<nowiki />)</ins> }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude></includeonly><!--		<includeonly><onlyinclude><dfn class="{{{class\|field_anarchy}}} manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="65,49" data-numbersign="404" data-series="" data-work="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2/A}}{{#if: {{{1\|}}} \| [[E:Q65,49\|{{{1}}}]] \| [[E:Q65,49\|The Cold War was a social construct]] }}{{#if: {{{3\|}}} \| {{{3}}} }}{{#if: {{{2\|}}} \| <ins class="edition-sense term"> ([[E:Q65,49/{{{2}}}\|{{{2}}}]]<nowiki />)</ins> }}{{WaveScore\|sum=1\|quilt=1\|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude></includeonly><!--
	-->{{HueNumberPreview\|E=Q6549}}<!-- duplication hint: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q65,49]] -->		-->{{HueNumberPreview\|E=Q6549}}<!-- duplication hint: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN\|Q65,49]] -->

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	=== Falsification criteria ===		=== Falsification criteria ===

			To falsify this claim, you can't simply recite the basic tenets and adages of Marxism as if you expect everyone to believe them; the strongest refutation will use concepts and vocabulary that anarchists would already be deeply familiar with. Some possible routes of refutation that might be acceptable include:

			* Showing that the Cold War was a material phenomenon not based in ideas without using Marxism
			* Showing that the United States did not [[E:free will\|Freely Choose]] to hate the Soviet Union and the majority of the United States population was obligated to hate it through forces beyond its immediate control
			* Showing that the population of the Soviet Union and the population of the United States were not automatically predisposed to like each other until governments force them not to, but, for instance, entirely neutral to each other
			* Showing that if there were no capitalists <i>per se</i> at any greater scale than co-ops, countries could still end up in a period of tensions very much like the Cold War, and wouldn't simply enter a period of international anarchism as much as an attempt to, warheads or no warheads, "nonviolently" starve each other and tear each other apart


	[[Category:Pages serving as current format examples]]		[[Category:Pages serving as current format examples]]

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page Ontology:Q6549 to Ontology:Q65,49: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

2025-09-02T11:58:08Z

Reversedragon moved page Ontology:Q6549 to Ontology:Q65,49: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

← Older revision	Revision as of 11:58, 2 September 2025
(No difference)

Reversedragon: copy or update fake Item from Q65,47

2025-09-02T11:57:19Z

copy or update fake Item from Q65,47

New page

{{ArticleTitle|[S2] The Cold War was a social construct - A / Q65,49|NoContents=y}}
<includeonly><onlyinclude><dfn class="{{{class|field_anarchy}}} manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="65,49" data-numbersign="404" data-series="" data-work="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{IS2/HAS}}{{#if: {{{1|}}} | [[E:Q65,49|{{{1}}}]] | [[E:Q65,49|The Cold War was a social construct]] }}{{#if: {{{3|}}} | {{{3}}} }}{{#if: {{{2|}}} | <ins class="edition-sense term"> ([[E:Q65,49/{{{2}}}|{{{2}}}]]<nowiki />)</ins> }}{{WaveScore|sum=1|quilt=1|ply=1}}</dfn></onlyinclude></includeonly>{{HueNumberPreview|E=Q6549}}

== Core characteristics ==

<dl class="wikitable hue">
{{HueClaim |P=item type| {{Template:S2}} }}
{{HueRoster|EP=PPPA/L|lang=en| {{E:Q65,49}} }}
{{HueClaim |EP=PPPA|lang=en| The opposition of Liberal-republican countries against the Soviet Union was nothing more than a social construct in which Liberal-republican countries made up reasons to hate the 14 nationalities of the Soviet Union for reasons largely unrelated to the class composition of the two countries, and related more to the affinity between the 14 major Soviet ethnic groups and the anomalous, hateful non-affinity between the United States and those ethnic groups }}
{{HueRoster|EP=P42| -- }} 
{{HueRoster|EP=P34| -- }}
{{HueRoster|EP=P3| -- }} 
{{HueRoster|EP=P4| {{E:Q618/A|derived anarchist proposition}} }} 
{{HueRoster|EP=P5| -- }} 
</dl>


== Wavebuilder combinations ==

<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
{{WaveBuildNone| {{E:Q65,49}} | -- | -- }} 
</dl>

== Wavebuilder characterizations ==

<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
{{WaveRoute| -- | -- | {{E:Q65,49}} }} 
</dl>

== [[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand|Prototype]] notes ==

<ol class="hue clean">
</li><li class="field_anarchy" value="6549" data-dimension="S2">The Cold War was a social construct / The opposition of Liberal-republican countries against the Soviet Union was nothing more than a social construct in which Liberal-republican countries made up reasons to hate the 14 nationalities of the Soviet Union for reasons largely unrelated to the class composition of the two countries, and related more to the affinity between the 14 major Soviet ethnic groups and the anomalous, hateful non-affinity between the United States and those ethnic groups -> persuade me of this using specifically the Russian Revolution, the Soviet Union, and the Cold War, and I might genuinely consider postcolonial anarchisms. I feel like the difficulty of arguing that verges on impossible, but maybe that's just me. I've made it a little easier by leaving out the requirement that anarchism explains how to defeat the Russian empire or <em>win</em> the Cold War, and only handing you the impossible task of arguing Soviet people and United States racists who to this day can hardly stand the idea of somebody living in another country and being Russian are obligated to be friends. that's what I don't understand. how, when United States people are constantly dismissing the existence of reactionaries in their own country as a totally ignorable non- part of their lives, that anarchisms or postcolonial theories that say every opposition between groups of people is an arbitrary decision each group made are supposed to fix anything.
</li></ol>

== Background ==

=== Falsification criteria ===

[[Category:Pages serving as current format examples]]