Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q19,04 - Revision history

Reversedragon: Show not the goal but show also the path

2026-08-20T07:55:15Z

Show not the goal but show also the path

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:55, 20 August 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Tribal populations (?) will recognize and appreciate the power of workers to stop the exploiters -> I don't know who the Kaffirs are.		{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Tribal populations (?) will recognize and appreciate the power of workers to stop the exploiters -> I don't know who the Kaffirs are.

	{{li\|I=S2/IV/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Intentions alone cannot make you Progressive or Reactionary / The ends are not accessible without control over the effects of the means -> there are a lot more small fragments of meta-Marxism in Trotsky than I realized		{{li\|I=S2/IV/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Intentions alone cannot make you Progressive or Reactionary / The ends are not accessible without control over the effects of the means / Show not the goal but show also the path (Lassalle) -> there are a lot more small fragments of meta-Marxism in Trotsky than I realized

	{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Deceive unions when necessary / "Maneuvers and subterfuge" are in this case only methods of valid self-defense against a perfidious reformist bureaucracy (trade union bureaucracy; Soviet bureaucracy) (Lenin, Trotsky) -> he specifically refers to the trade union bureaucracy here but the context makes it amply obvious he does mean either one		{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Deceive unions when necessary / "Maneuvers and subterfuge" are in this case only methods of valid self-defense against a perfidious reformist bureaucracy (trade union bureaucracy; Soviet bureaucracy) (Lenin, Trotsky) -> he specifically refers to the trade union bureaucracy here but the context makes it amply obvious he does mean either one
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	{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Permissible and obligatory are those and only those means which unite the revolutionary proletariat, fill their hearts with irreconcilable hostility to oppression, teach them contempt for official morality and its democratic echoers, imbue them with consciousness of their own historic mission, raise their courage and spirit of self-sacrifice in the struggle ... the great revolutionary end spurns those base means and ways which set one part of the working class against other parts, or attempt to make the masses happy without their participation; or lower the faith of the masses in themselves and their organization, replacing it by worship for the "leaders"		{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Permissible and obligatory are those and only those means which unite the revolutionary proletariat, fill their hearts with irreconcilable hostility to oppression, teach them contempt for official morality and its democratic echoers, imbue them with consciousness of their own historic mission, raise their courage and spirit of self-sacrifice in the struggle ... the great revolutionary end spurns those base means and ways which set one part of the working class against other parts, or attempt to make the masses happy without their participation; or lower the faith of the masses in themselves and their organization, replacing it by worship for the "leaders"

	~~{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Show not the goal but show also the path (Lassalle)~~

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Intentions alone cannot make you Progressive or Reactionary

2026-08-20T07:43:14Z

Intentions alone cannot make you Progressive or Reactionary

Show changes

Reversedragon: copy markup from Q19,04

2026-08-20T01:02:30Z

copy markup from Q19,04

New page

{{NextNineThousand|PPPA=Their morals and ours|E=Q19,04|User=RD|Contents=y}}
== Main entry ==
{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">

{{li|start=y|I=Z1/IV|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{article|Their Morals and Ours}} (Trotsky 1938) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/morals/morals.htm]

</li></ol>
== Motifs or claims ==

== Related ==


== Ideologies or fields ==
<ol class="hue clean terse {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">
{{li|start=y
|I=Z1/IV |Q=41,04|Q2=4104}}{{TTS|IV|Fourth}} / Trotskyism
{{li|I=Z1/ML |Q=40,01|Q2=4001}}{{TTS|ML|M-L}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q4000|Stalinism]] (Soviet Union)
{{li|I=Z1/ML |Q=41,03|Q2=4103}}{{TTS|ML|M-L}} / Stalin's Marxism (2020s)
</li></ol>


== Subpages or related scraps ==



[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:55, 20 August 2026
Line 109:		Line 109:
	{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Tribal populations (?) will recognize and appreciate the power of workers to stop the exploiters -> I don't know who the Kaffirs are.		{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Tribal populations (?) will recognize and appreciate the power of workers to stop the exploiters -> I don't know who the Kaffirs are.

	{{li\|I=S2/IV/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Intentions alone cannot make you Progressive or Reactionary / The ends are not accessible without control over the effects of the means -> there are a lot more small fragments of meta-Marxism in Trotsky than I realized		{{li\|I=S2/IV/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Intentions alone cannot make you Progressive or Reactionary / The ends are not accessible without control over the effects of the means / Show not the goal but show also the path (Lassalle) -> there are a lot more small fragments of meta-Marxism in Trotsky than I realized

	{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Deceive unions when necessary / "Maneuvers and subterfuge" are in this case only methods of valid self-defense against a perfidious reformist bureaucracy (trade union bureaucracy; Soviet bureaucracy) (Lenin, Trotsky) -> he specifically refers to the trade union bureaucracy here but the context makes it amply obvious he does mean either one		{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Deceive unions when necessary / "Maneuvers and subterfuge" are in this case only methods of valid self-defense against a perfidious reformist bureaucracy (trade union bureaucracy; Soviet bureaucracy) (Lenin, Trotsky) -> he specifically refers to the trade union bureaucracy here but the context makes it amply obvious he does mean either one
Line 122:		Line 122:

	{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Permissible and obligatory are those and only those means which unite the revolutionary proletariat, fill their hearts with irreconcilable hostility to oppression, teach them contempt for official morality and its democratic echoers, imbue them with consciousness of their own historic mission, raise their courage and spirit of self-sacrifice in the struggle ... the great revolutionary end spurns those base means and ways which set one part of the working class against other parts, or attempt to make the masses happy without their participation; or lower the faith of the masses in themselves and their organization, replacing it by worship for the "leaders"		{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Permissible and obligatory are those and only those means which unite the revolutionary proletariat, fill their hearts with irreconcilable hostility to oppression, teach them contempt for official morality and its democratic echoers, imbue them with consciousness of their own historic mission, raise their courage and spirit of self-sacrifice in the struggle ... the great revolutionary end spurns those base means and ways which set one part of the working class against other parts, or attempt to make the masses happy without their participation; or lower the faith of the masses in themselves and their organization, replacing it by worship for the "leaders"

	~~{{li\|I=S2/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Show not the goal but show also the path (Lassalle)~~

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>