Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q19,80 - Revision history

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q1980 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q19,80: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title: not representing a year

2026-08-13T12:09:26Z

Reversedragon moved page Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q1980 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q19,80: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title: not representing a year

← Older revision	Revision as of 12:09, 13 August 2026
(No difference)

Reversedragon: thanks, Rothenberg

2026-08-13T12:08:18Z

thanks, Rothenberg

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:08, 13 August 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/LR\|tradition=\|Q=42,91\|Q2=4291\|h4= Surely Marx imagined determinism }} / Surely, Marx's determinism (dialectical materialism; existential materialism; upreductionism; narrative prediction) was an unacceptable assumption / This determination to have the complete, closed story, or model, the final word, is something I cannot forgive Marx for; it proved responsible for a great deal of error and, more significantly, authoritarianism (Yanis Varoufakis) / ({{9k\|RD/Q4291}})		{{li\|I=S2/LR\|tradition=\|Q=42,91\|Q2=4291\|h4= Surely Marx imagined determinism }} / Surely, Marx's determinism (dialectical materialism; existential materialism; upreductionism; narrative prediction) was an unacceptable assumption / This determination to have the complete, closed story, or model, the final word, is something I cannot forgive Marx for; it proved responsible for a great deal of error and, more significantly, authoritarianism (Yanis Varoufakis) / ({{9k\|RD/Q4291}})

			{{li\|I=S1/MX/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}thanks, Rothenberg / you just became Rothenberg / your name might as well be Rothenberg -> although this is annoying, it does happen to be helpful as far as figuring out what on earth Rothenberg was even saying. people like Varoufakis often put the same things much clearer.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Surely Marx imagined determinism / initial bourgeois class rule

2026-08-13T09:03:49Z

Surely Marx imagined determinism / initial bourgeois class rule

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	{{li\|I=F2/STM\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Unpredictable equals undetermined -> then how does anything {{censor\|fucking}} happen??? this man should semi-literally be handed an "F" in physics		{{li\|I=F2/STM\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Unpredictable equals undetermined -> then how does anything {{censor\|fucking}} happen??? this man should semi-literally be handed an "F" in physics

			{{li\|I=S2/LR\|tradition=\|Q=42,91\|Q2=4291\|h4= Surely Marx imagined determinism }} / Surely, Marx's determinism (dialectical materialism; existential materialism; upreductionism; narrative prediction) was an unacceptable assumption / This determination to have the complete, closed story, or model, the final word, is something I cannot forgive Marx for; it proved responsible for a great deal of error and, more significantly, authoritarianism (Yanis Varoufakis) / ({{9k\|RD/Q4291}})

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

	== Related ==		== Related ==
	~~<!--~~
	<ol class="hue clean">		<ol class="hue clean">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/MX\|Q=29,23\|Q2=2923\|h4= Real systems are circular }} / Real-world collections of objects and processes perpetuate themselves and stamp out the possibility of change, and there is no logical contradiction in saying this / ({{9k\|RD/Q2923}}) -><br/>
			something that seems to have upset Rothenberg yet which under the point of view of traditional dialectical materialism or even a simple introduction of relativistic determinism would be wholly unobjectionable.

			{{li\|I=S1/MN\|tradition=ML onto ES, IV onto ES\|Q=618}}initial bourgeois class rule / molecular scale bourgeois class rule (meta-Marxism) / bourgeois class rule (happening at small scales as part of civil society; Marxism onto Liberal-republicanism) / ({{9k\|RD/Q1920}})

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>
	~~-->~~
	<!--		<!--
	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==

Reversedragon: Unpredictable equals undetermined

2026-08-13T08:25:02Z

Unpredictable equals undetermined

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:25, 13 August 2026
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	== Main entry ==		== Main entry ==
	{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean">		{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean">
	~~<!-- {{li\|start=y\|I=S2/MX\|tradition=\|Q=19,80\|Q2=1980\|h4= flame swatch as color of Trotskyism }} -->~~

	</~~li><li class~~=~~"field_exstruct" data-qid~~="19,80~~" value~~="1980~~" data~~-~~dimension~~=~~"Z"><cite>[[~~E:Q19,80\|The Excessive Subject: A new theory of social change]]</~~cite~~> (Rothenberg ~~2010)~~		{{li\|start=y\|I=Z1/ES\|tradition=\|Q=19,80\|Q2=1980\|h4-rem=}}{{book\|E=Q19,80\|The Excessive Subject: A new theory of social change}} (Rothenberg 2010)

			</li></ol>

			== You can't predict the economy! ==
			<ol class="hue clean">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Unpredictable equals undetermined / A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS onto Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] -> shut the {{censor\|fuck}} up rothenberg. I know you're not Rothenberg but that's your name now if you go around saying stuff like that.<br/>
			ok, on the bright side though, if this is true, a proper theory of economics has to just accept that Communist revolution happened in another country purely because you couldn't control it. most of what happens in a Communist revolution isn't engineered by Stalin or Mao, so it's undetermined, right? and that means you can't place rules on whether it will happen or not. I bet you love that outcome.

			{{li\|I=F2/STM\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Unpredictable equals undetermined -> then how does anything {{censor\|fucking}} happen??? this man should semi-literally be handed an "F" in physics

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: copy markup from Q12,9,44

2026-08-13T08:05:06Z

copy markup from Q12,9,44

New page

{{NextNineThousand|PPPA=The Excessive Subject|User=RD|E=Q19,80|Contents=y}}
== Main entry ==
{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean">


</li><li class="field_exstruct" data-qid="19,80" value="1980" data-dimension="Z"><cite>[[E:Q19,80|The Excessive Subject: A new theory of social change]]</cite> (Rothenberg 2010)

</li></ol>

== Related ==


== Ideologies or fields ==

* ES / political agorism
* MX / meta-Marxism


[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]]