Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q22,13 - Revision history

Reversedragon: Yaroshenko, we see through your [schemes]

2026-04-05T18:35:34Z

Yaroshenko, we see through your [schemes]

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:35, 5 April 2026
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	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

	== ~~Claims~~ against ==		== Statements against ==
	<ol class="hue clean terse">		<ol class="hue clean terse">

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	{{li\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}In 1952 the Soviet Union was just beyond the horizon of commodities [https://revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv1n1/marksoc.htm] -> this is a very important observation because it seems there were a lot of fatal missteps in what was and wasn't creating commodities. Stalin was exactly tuned in as far as the concept that socialist transition was actually about making smaller structures into larger structures and a lot of other people in the central party just {{em\|weren't}}. disregard the 'profitability' of the smaller structures and maybe focus on the increasing productivity of much larger ones, is the impression I'm getting. very typical to the patterns of how good the Soviet Union's theorists were in basically every era, but tragic, because oh my god out of Stalin you got the most lucid description of the basics of what exiting Bolshevism to post-Bolshevism {{em\|is}}, it was right there, and then somehow nobody did it. I feel like there had to be external factors in play here because otherwise this development doesn't make any sense. Stalin was even catching the people introducing commodities and kicking them out of the party while he was there?? they had the examples, they should have had at least some idea what was going on and what the good and bad patterns were even without him.		{{li\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}In 1952 the Soviet Union was just beyond the horizon of commodities [https://revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv1n1/marksoc.htm] -> this is a very important observation because it seems there were a lot of fatal missteps in what was and wasn't creating commodities. Stalin was exactly tuned in as far as the concept that socialist transition was actually about making smaller structures into larger structures and a lot of other people in the central party just {{em\|weren't}}. disregard the 'profitability' of the smaller structures and maybe focus on the increasing productivity of much larger ones, is the impression I'm getting. very typical to the patterns of how good the Soviet Union's theorists were in basically every era, but tragic, because oh my god out of Stalin you got the most lucid description of the basics of what exiting Bolshevism to post-Bolshevism {{em\|is}}, it was right there, and then somehow nobody did it. I feel like there had to be external factors in play here because otherwise this development doesn't make any sense. Stalin was even catching the people introducing commodities and kicking them out of the party while he was there?? they had the examples, they should have had at least some idea what was going on and what the good and bad patterns were even without him.

			{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=618}}Yaroshenko, we see through your {{censor\|shit\|tts=[schemes]}} -> I said this out loud in response to yet another example of conflating non-proletarians with workers and then was like... no, actually use this, I have to make this one a hidden sense label on something, this would make wonderful Wavebuilder combinations.<br/>
			the main deal with the censor bar is basically that I put the censor bars in place to make the more serious entries appealing to older people (the entries that ironically probably won't contain any), but I don't want a bunch of ugly censor bars all over every Item label.<br/>
			you can have a sense label with swears in it if A) the quote is well-known or very significant B) it isn't shown on the Ontology page and is buried in the aliases page C) you manage to pull off meta humor about an SCP with a redacted number. I can't forget that one

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: redirects

2026-03-28T19:45:26Z

redirects

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:45, 28 March 2026
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	-->		-->
	[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]] [[Category:Yaroshenkoism ontology]] <!-- page ends here. TTS-unfriendly numbers incoming		[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]] [[Category:Yaroshenkoism ontology]] <!-- page ends here. TTS-unfriendly numbers incoming
	redirects: [[User:RD/9k/Q2213]]		redirects: [[User:RD/9k/Q2213]] [[User:RD/9k/Q22,13]]
	duplication hint: copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNNN\|9k/Q22,13]] -->		duplication hint: copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNNN\|9k/Q22,13]] -->

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page User:RD/9k/Q22,13 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q22,13: Moving 9k pages to Ontology talk for search purposes

2026-03-28T19:45:00Z

Reversedragon moved page User:RD/9k/Q22,13 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q22,13: Moving 9k pages to Ontology talk for search purposes

← Older revision	Revision as of 19:45, 28 March 2026
(No difference)

Reversedragon: re-sort

2026-03-28T04:20:40Z

re-sort

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:20, 28 March 2026
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=F2/DX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}All relations of production do is limit the development of the productive forces (Yaroshenko)		{{li\|start=y\|I=F2/DX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}All relations of production do is limit the development of the productive forces (Yaroshenko)

			{{li\|I=S2/DX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Bourgeois political economy and socialist political economy are completely different disciplines because of how (supposedly) workers have turned relations of production into productive forces -> this is {{em\|totally}} the kind of thing that creates Deng Xiaoping Thought if you try to do it too early

	{{li\|I=F2/DX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Soviet-Union production relations are intelligently designed (Yaroshenko 1952) / Inside a dictatorship-of-the-proletariat, the workers have full control of the relations of production (Yaroshenko) -> that is clearly not true just because of uneven development. the NEP is one example of this, they had to have a phase of constructing free-floating corporations because there were no larger structures and the workers had no way to control those structures as processes.		{{li\|I=F2/DX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Soviet-Union production relations are intelligently designed (Yaroshenko 1952) / Inside a dictatorship-of-the-proletariat, the workers have full control of the relations of production (Yaroshenko) -> that is clearly not true just because of uneven development. the NEP is one example of this, they had to have a phase of constructing free-floating corporations because there were no larger structures and the workers had no way to control those structures as processes.

	{{li\|I=S2/DX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Bourgeois political economy and socialist political economy are completely different disciplines because of how (supposedly) workers have turned relations of production into productive forces -> this is {{em\|totally}} the kind of thing that creates Deng Xiaoping Thought if you try to do it too early

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: In 1952 the Soviet Union was just beyond the horizon of commodities

2026-03-23T09:19:23Z

In 1952 the Soviet Union was just beyond the horizon of commodities

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:19, 23 March 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}During transition to upper-phase communism the post-structuralist character of markets will be abolished and a different form of product exchange will be created where people contribute products to an overall mono-structure and get the products they need without really worrying much about the detailed logistics of exactly how much everyone produced and exactly what products have to go to exactly what town and exactly what store; this is implied to be a very coarse description of all the small-scale changes that happened in the historical transition from state capitalism to upper-phase communism to allow people to build and operate the one or 14 mono-structures efficiently enough that the actions of individuals and isolated chunks are no longer handed such "heavy-lifting" tasks to solve daily problems		{{li\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}During transition to upper-phase communism the post-structuralist character of markets will be abolished and a different form of product exchange will be created where people contribute products to an overall mono-structure and get the products they need without really worrying much about the detailed logistics of exactly how much everyone produced and exactly what products have to go to exactly what town and exactly what store; this is implied to be a very coarse description of all the small-scale changes that happened in the historical transition from state capitalism to upper-phase communism to allow people to build and operate the one or 14 mono-structures efficiently enough that the actions of individuals and isolated chunks are no longer handed such "heavy-lifting" tasks to solve daily problems

			{{li\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}In 1952 the Soviet Union was just beyond the horizon of commodities [https://revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv1n1/marksoc.htm] -> this is a very important observation because it seems there were a lot of fatal missteps in what was and wasn't creating commodities. Stalin was exactly tuned in as far as the concept that socialist transition was actually about making smaller structures into larger structures and a lot of other people in the central party just {{em\|weren't}}. disregard the 'profitability' of the smaller structures and maybe focus on the increasing productivity of much larger ones, is the impression I'm getting. very typical to the patterns of how good the Soviet Union's theorists were in basically every era, but tragic, because oh my god out of Stalin you got the most lucid description of the basics of what exiting Bolshevism to post-Bolshevism {{em\|is}}, it was right there, and then somehow nobody did it. I feel like there had to be external factors in play here because otherwise this development doesn't make any sense. Stalin was even catching the people introducing commodities and kicking them out of the party while he was there?? they had the examples, they should have had at least some idea what was going on and what the good and bad patterns were even without him.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: category

2026-03-23T03:15:37Z

Reversedragon: category

2026-03-22T07:01:13Z

Reversedragon: United States strengthening South Koreans to destroy North Korea

2026-03-22T05:59:29Z

United States strengthening South Koreans to destroy North Korea

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:59, 22 March 2026
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	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

			== Militant Yaroshenkoism? ==
			<ol class="hue clean terse">

			{{li\|I=S2/DX\|tradition=MX onto DX\|Q=618}}Yaroshenkoism is a postcolonial theory / Yaroshenkoism is a Materialist postcolonial theory which promotes national liberation starting at very small scales of society at which individuals and small groups can potentially resist global empire or global capitalism and make a difference on international scales / Yaroshenkoism is a [[E:pseudo Molecular Marxism (meta-Marxism)\|pseudo-MDem]], but one which belongs in the top tier of pseudo-MDems in that it can create national borders from the inside and actually possesses a certain kind of revolutionary potential; Yaroshenkoism is a variety of molecular {{em\|bourgeois democracy}} capable of molecularized bourgeois revolutions -> Yaroshenko's final chance to be relevant. one of the only reasons {{em\|a sane person}} would argue that a strawberry "dictatorship-of-the-whatever" allows workers to control all structural elements including the bourgeoisie as 'productive forces' is to argue a Gramscian line that the connections between whole corporations and whole subpopulations or countries are absolutely critical to maintaining national independence and allowing any of the people-groups of the world any chance to break free of the single gigantic global-capital object that otherwise outnumbers them. like without Yaroshenkoism the United States can just mobilize all the world's countries to blockade Cuba and shut off all its energy, and there's very little anyone can do about it except maybe drop their day jobs and put all their energy into sanctioning their connection to the United States economy and illegally ferrying oil to Cuba. at which point they'd basically be doing active, militant Yaroshenkoism. Existentialism's major strategy is outright pulling people away from nationalities and ethnic groups through 'carrots' or through psychological torture and then using them as weapons to destroy their own ethnic group. so one of the only conceivable ways to counteract that is doing it backwards and pulling people away to serve the Third World or Second World until the {{em\|First World}} starts hurting and has to capitulate. there's a small chance Yaroshenko's philosophy is actually a stroke of dark genius and he may effectively have {{em\|saved}}} China, Cuba, Vietnam, and North Korea. that's the flipside of all this!

			{{li\|I=S2/DX\|Q=618}}United States strengthening South Koreans to destroy North Korea -> ... it's like there is only one way to win and that way is to absolutely out-live and out-exist and out-Existentialize Existentialism until proletarian civilization has covered the earth as much as Existentialism does right now and Existentialists just don't {{censor\|fucking}} exist any more. if we hypothetically imagine Richard Wolff's co-op theory was right then the co-ops would have to trade with Cuba or North Korea etc and refuse to stock all the most reactionary businesses in the United States at a level equivalent to the incoming goods, basically Boston-Tea-Party the khaki businesses' income. the structure of which businesses are connected globally is almost as critical as trying to have a country exclusively full of workers. like, that horizontal production relation of what city buys what city's goods and causes the productive forces to build up is the real thing that defines country borders now and whether a country survives. the bourgeoisie got their power by actually selling goods and now they maintain their power by abruptly pulling goods and jobs and an area's entire socioeconomy. the only way to defeat embargoes and perhaps the very concept of sanctions might just be radically ferrying goods to other countries as if the embargo doesn't exist in spite of what they do to you

			</li></ol>

	== Related ==		== Related ==
	<ol class="hue clean terse">		<ol class="hue clean terse">
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	{{li\|I=S2/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Small things organizing into bigger things is basically always the same thing (Bogdanov; tektology) [https://monoskop.org/images/e/e9/Bogdanov_Alexander_Tektology_Book_1.pdf] -> hmm. this is... not as bad as I'd expected it to be. chapter 1 deals with the concept of bisimilarity and how analogies come from actual similarities between arrangements of parts. the one thing I notice right away is there isn't much space dedicated to the concept of systems turning over and evolving reterministically as all their pieces interact at once, so it might not understand dialectical materialism? I am not sure.<br/>		{{li\|I=S2/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Small things organizing into bigger things is basically always the same thing (Bogdanov; tektology) [https://monoskop.org/images/e/e9/Bogdanov_Alexander_Tektology_Book_1.pdf] -> hmm. this is... not as bad as I'd expected it to be. chapter 1 deals with the concept of bisimilarity and how analogies come from actual similarities between arrangements of parts. the one thing I notice right away is there isn't much space dedicated to the concept of systems turning over and evolving reterministically as all their pieces interact at once, so it might not understand dialectical materialism? I am not sure.<br/>
	my second thought while reading: "oh {{censor\|god}} stop saying the phrases 'systems thinking' and 'systemic'."		my second thought while reading: "oh {{censor\|god}} stop saying the phrases 'systems thinking' and 'systemic'."

	{{li\|I=S2/DX\|tradition=MX onto DX\|Q=618}}Yaroshenkoism is a postcolonial theory -> Yaroshenko's final chance to be relevant. one of the only reasons {{em\|a sane person}} would argue that a strawberry "dictatorship-of-the-whatever" allows workers to control all structural elements including the bourgeoisie as 'productive forces' is to argue a Gramscian line that the connections between whole corporations and whole subpopulations or countries are absolutely critical to maintaining national independence and allowing any of the people-groups of the world any chance to break free of the single gigantic global-capital object that otherwise outnumbers them. like without Yaroshenkoism the United States can just mobilize all the world's countries to blockade Cuba and shut off all its energy, and there's very little anyone can do about it except maybe drop their day jobs and put all their energy into sanctioning their connection to the United States economy and illegally ferrying oil to Cuba. at which point they'd basically be doing active, militant Yaroshenkoism. Existentialism's major strategy is outright pulling people away from nationalities and ethnic groups through 'carrots' or through psychological torture and then using them as weapons to destroy their own ethnic group. so one of the only conceivable ways to counteract that is doing it backwards and pulling people away to serve the Third World or Second World until the {{em\|First World}} starts hurting and has to capitulate. there's a small chance Yaroshenko's philosophy is actually a stroke of dark genius and he may effectively have {{em\|saved}}} China, Cuba, Vietnam, and North Korea. that's the flipside of Stalin's argument!

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Yaroshenkoism is a postcolonial theory

2026-03-22T05:45:57Z

Yaroshenkoism is a postcolonial theory

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:45, 22 March 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Small things organizing into bigger things is basically always the same thing (Bogdanov; tektology) [https://monoskop.org/images/e/e9/Bogdanov_Alexander_Tektology_Book_1.pdf] -> hmm. this is... not as bad as I'd expected it to be. chapter 1 deals with the concept of bisimilarity and how analogies come from actual similarities between arrangements of parts. the one thing I notice right away is there isn't much space dedicated to the concept of systems turning over and evolving reterministically as all their pieces interact at once, so it might not understand dialectical materialism? I am not sure.<br/>		{{li\|I=S2/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Small things organizing into bigger things is basically always the same thing (Bogdanov; tektology) [https://monoskop.org/images/e/e9/Bogdanov_Alexander_Tektology_Book_1.pdf] -> hmm. this is... not as bad as I'd expected it to be. chapter 1 deals with the concept of bisimilarity and how analogies come from actual similarities between arrangements of parts. the one thing I notice right away is there isn't much space dedicated to the concept of systems turning over and evolving reterministically as all their pieces interact at once, so it might not understand dialectical materialism? I am not sure.<br/>
	my second thought while reading: "oh {{censor\|god}} stop saying the phrases 'systems thinking' and 'systemic'."		my second thought while reading: "oh {{censor\|god}} stop saying the phrases 'systems thinking' and 'systemic'."

			{{li\|I=S2/DX\|tradition=MX onto DX\|Q=618}}Yaroshenkoism is a postcolonial theory -> Yaroshenko's final chance to be relevant. one of the only reasons {{em\|a sane person}} would argue that a strawberry "dictatorship-of-the-whatever" allows workers to control all structural elements including the bourgeoisie as 'productive forces' is to argue a Gramscian line that the connections between whole corporations and whole subpopulations or countries are absolutely critical to maintaining national independence and allowing any of the people-groups of the world any chance to break free of the single gigantic global-capital object that otherwise outnumbers them. like without Yaroshenkoism the United States can just mobilize all the world's countries to blockade Cuba and shut off all its energy, and there's very little anyone can do about it except maybe drop their day jobs and put all their energy into sanctioning their connection to the United States economy and illegally ferrying oil to Cuba. at which point they'd basically be doing active, militant Yaroshenkoism. Existentialism's major strategy is outright pulling people away from nationalities and ethnic groups through 'carrots' or through psychological torture and then using them as weapons to destroy their own ethnic group. so one of the only conceivable ways to counteract that is doing it backwards and pulling people away to serve the Third World or Second World until the {{em\|First World}} starts hurting and has to capitulate. there's a small chance Yaroshenko's philosophy is actually a stroke of dark genius and he may effectively have {{em\|saved}}} China, Cuba, Vietnam, and North Korea. that's the flipside of Stalin's argument!

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>
	~~<!--~~

	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==
	<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">		<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
	{{WaveBuild\| -- \| -- \| -- }}		{{WaveBuild\| {{E:Q618/DX\|Yaroshenkoism is a postcolonial theory}} \| {{E:Q41,07}} \| {{E:Q618/DX\|Dengism is a postcolonial theory}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ... Deng Xiaoping Thought ... -->
	{{E:Q618/IV\|?}} --		</dl>
	--></dl>

	== Ideologies or fields ==		== Ideologies or fields ==
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	-->		-->

			* DX / Deng Xiaoping Thought
	* DX / Yaroshenkoism		* DX / Yaroshenkoism
	* DX / Deng Xiaoping Thought
	* ML / mainstream Marxism-Leninism		* ML / mainstream Marxism-Leninism
			* ML / dialectical materialism
	* MX / meta-Marxism		* MX / meta-Marxism
	* ML onto DX		* ML onto DX

Reversedragon: transition to upper-phase communism

2026-03-21T06:35:43Z

transition to upper-phase communism

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:35, 21 March 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/ML\|tradition=ML onto DX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}At the moment new relations of production are put in place to remedy the problems of old ones they aid productive forces rather than hindering them (Stalin) / The point of [[E:red anarchology (meta-Marxism)\|anarchology]] within the economic aspects of the socioeconomy is to actually identify or quantify impediments to productive forces and free productive forces from them -> right. Yaroshenko doesn't seem to explain why the relations of production even changed, if they're supposedly only going to obstruct things again.		{{li\|I=S2/ML\|tradition=ML onto DX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}At the moment new relations of production are put in place to remedy the problems of old ones they aid productive forces rather than hindering them (Stalin) / The point of [[E:red anarchology (meta-Marxism)\|anarchology]] within the economic aspects of the socioeconomy is to actually identify or quantify impediments to productive forces and free productive forces from them -> right. Yaroshenko doesn't seem to explain why the relations of production even changed, if they're supposedly only going to obstruct things again.

			{{li\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abundance will not be reached without the right small-scale relations of production that keep the development of productive forces moving

			{{li\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}During transition to upper-phase communism the post-structuralist character of markets will be abolished and a different form of product exchange will be created where people contribute products to an overall mono-structure and get the products they need without really worrying much about the detailed logistics of exactly how much everyone produced and exactly what products have to go to exactly what town and exactly what store; this is implied to be a very coarse description of all the small-scale changes that happened in the historical transition from state capitalism to upper-phase communism to allow people to build and operate the one or 14 mono-structures efficiently enough that the actions of individuals and isolated chunks are no longer handed such "heavy-lifting" tasks to solve daily problems

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:01, 22 March 2026
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	[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]] <!-- page ends here. TTS-unfriendly numbers incoming		[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]] [[Category:Charcoal versus strawberry ontology]] <!-- page ends here. TTS-unfriendly numbers incoming
	redirects: [[User:RD/9k/Q2213]]		redirects: [[User:RD/9k/Q2213]]
	duplication hint: copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNNN\|9k/Q22,13]] -->		duplication hint: copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNNN\|9k/Q22,13]] -->

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:15, 23 March 2026
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	[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]] [[Category:~~Charcoal versus strawberry~~ ontology]] <!-- page ends here. TTS-unfriendly numbers incoming		[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]] [[Category:Yaroshenkoism ontology]] <!-- page ends here. TTS-unfriendly numbers incoming
	redirects: [[User:RD/9k/Q2213]]		redirects: [[User:RD/9k/Q2213]]
	duplication hint: copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNNN\|9k/Q22,13]] -->		duplication hint: copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNNN\|9k/Q22,13]] -->