Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q29,23 - Revision history

Reversedragon: Undo revision 45088 - had a duplicate tab open, oops

2026-08-13T12:42:48Z

Undo revision 45088 - had a duplicate tab open, oops

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:42, 13 August 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS) / ({{9k\|RD/Q1980}})		{{li\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS) / ({{9k\|RD/Q1980}})

	{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is the status of Liberal-republicans not having a coherent narrative of Communist parties as much as it is the other way around, or more so -> this came up while writing "[[Research:MDem/5.4r/0999 north-letter\|north-letter]]". I think it's very relevant here.<br/>		{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is the status of Liberal-republicans not having a coherent narrative of Communist parties as much as it is the other way around, or more so / ({{9k\|RD/Q43,50}}) -> this came up while writing "[[Research:MDem/5.4r/0999 north-letter\|north-letter]]". I think it's very relevant here.<br/>
	is this violet? it strikes me as something I'd say only after I figured out that I didn't have a coherent 'narrative' of Trotskyism myself. I think this one is orange.		is this violet? it strikes me as something I'd say only after I figured out that I didn't have a coherent 'narrative' of Trotskyism myself. I think this one is orange.

	{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is nothing more than a crisis of revolutionary leadership -> this phrase Trotskyists say has become a funny 'brain meme' to me that I've started throwing into Items ironically. [[EC:9k/RDIntoInsanity\|not in the old way]] I'd do that kind of thing though where I am trying to say anything bad about Trotskyists. it's just a matter of, why are we still talking about this? doesn't this phrase literally define itself as something that should have been solved a long time ago? there's a certain irony in there. so, yeah. wildly overusing the phrase 'crisis of revolutionary leadership' is my new joke. I think it fits here, because it's like, 2/3 of the world is totally trying to deny Marxism and basically refusing to understand the world at all. that's a very severe "crisis of Leninism", when you don't even have any. and the other 1/3 or so of people on earth is trying to some extent to understand reality and understand Marxism, but nobody really gets it, so nobody is ready to lead the world to better understandings and unify people around them toward some kind of {{em\|big}} movement that could carry international permanent revolution. Liberal-republicanism and Trotskyism are each having their own 'crisis of Trotskyism' and that's kind of all postmodernism really is. it's just a bizarre interregnum until everybody settles onto a new meta-Marxism that makes the postmodern period look utterly silly.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Postmodernism is nothing more than a crisis of revolutionary leadership

2026-08-13T12:41:39Z

Postmodernism is nothing more than a crisis of revolutionary leadership

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:41, 13 August 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS) / ({{9k\|RD/Q1980}})		{{li\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS) / ({{9k\|RD/Q1980}})

	{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is the status of Liberal-republicans not having a coherent narrative of Communist parties as much as it is the other way around, or more so ~~/ ({{9k\|RD/Q43,50}})~~ -> this came up while writing "[[Research:MDem/5.4r/0999 north-letter\|north-letter]]". I think it's very relevant here.<br/>		{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is the status of Liberal-republicans not having a coherent narrative of Communist parties as much as it is the other way around, or more so -> this came up while writing "[[Research:MDem/5.4r/0999 north-letter\|north-letter]]". I think it's very relevant here.<br/>
	is this violet? it strikes me as something I'd say only after I figured out that I didn't have a coherent 'narrative' of Trotskyism myself. I think this one is orange.		is this violet? it strikes me as something I'd say only after I figured out that I didn't have a coherent 'narrative' of Trotskyism myself. I think this one is orange.

			{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is nothing more than a crisis of revolutionary leadership -> this phrase Trotskyists say has become a funny 'brain meme' to me that I've started throwing into Items ironically. [[EC:9k/RDIntoInsanity\|not in the old way]] I'd do that kind of thing though where I am trying to say anything bad about Trotskyists. it's just a matter of, why are we still talking about this? doesn't this phrase literally define itself as something that should have been solved a long time ago? there's a certain irony in there. so, yeah. wildly overusing the phrase 'crisis of revolutionary leadership' is my new joke. I think it fits here, because it's like, 2/3 of the world is totally trying to deny Marxism and basically refusing to understand the world at all. that's a very severe "crisis of Leninism", when you don't even have any. and the other 1/3 or so of people on earth is trying to some extent to understand reality and understand Marxism, but nobody really gets it, so nobody is ready to lead the world to better understandings and unify people around them toward some kind of {{em\|big}} movement that could carry international permanent revolution. Liberal-republicanism and Trotskyism are each having their own 'crisis of Trotskyism' and that's kind of all postmodernism really is. it's just a bizarre interregnum until everybody settles onto a new meta-Marxism that makes the postmodern period look utterly silly.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Postmodernism is nothing more than a crisis of revolutionary leadership - move to "Trotskyism and postmodernism"

2026-08-13T12:34:32Z

Postmodernism is nothing more than a crisis of revolutionary leadership - move to "Trotskyism and postmodernism"

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:34, 13 August 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS) / ({{9k\|RD/Q1980}})		{{li\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS) / ({{9k\|RD/Q1980}})

	{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is the status of Liberal-republicans not having a coherent narrative of Communist parties as much as it is the other way around, or more so -> this came up while writing "[[Research:MDem/5.4r/0999 north-letter\|north-letter]]". I think it's very relevant here.<br/>		{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is the status of Liberal-republicans not having a coherent narrative of Communist parties as much as it is the other way around, or more so / ({{9k\|RD/Q43,50}}) -> this came up while writing "[[Research:MDem/5.4r/0999 north-letter\|north-letter]]". I think it's very relevant here.<br/>
	is this violet? it strikes me as something I'd say only after I figured out that I didn't have a coherent 'narrative' of Trotskyism myself. I think this one is orange.		is this violet? it strikes me as something I'd say only after I figured out that I didn't have a coherent 'narrative' of Trotskyism myself. I think this one is orange.

	{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is nothing more than a crisis of revolutionary leadership -> this phrase Trotskyists say has become a funny 'brain meme' to me that I've started throwing into Items ironically. [[EC:9k/RDIntoInsanity\|not in the old way]] I'd do that kind of thing though where I am trying to say anything bad about Trotskyists. it's just a matter of, why are we still talking about this? doesn't this phrase literally define itself as something that should have been solved a long time ago? there's a certain irony in there. so, yeah. wildly overusing the phrase 'crisis of revolutionary leadership' is my new joke. I think it fits here, because it's like, 2/3 of the world is totally trying to deny Marxism and basically refusing to understand the world at all. that's a very severe "crisis of Leninism", when you don't even have any. and the other 1/3 or so of people on earth is trying to some extent to understand reality and understand Marxism, but nobody really gets it, so nobody is ready to lead the world to better understandings and unify people around them toward some kind of {{em\|big}} movement that could carry international permanent revolution. Liberal-republicanism and Trotskyism are each having their own 'crisis of Trotskyism' and that's kind of all postmodernism really is. it's just a bizarre interregnum until everybody settles onto a new meta-Marxism that makes the postmodern period look utterly silly.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: group "rothenberg's" proposition with rothenberg

2026-08-13T08:28:05Z

group "rothenberg's" proposition with rothenberg

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:28, 13 August 2026
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/STM\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}hidden variable theories (quantum mechanics) -> these are somewhat forbidden in the natural sciences, but at the scale of human populations it seems ridiculous to {{em\|not}} entertain them.		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/STM\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}hidden variable theories (quantum mechanics) -> these are somewhat forbidden in the natural sciences, but at the scale of human populations it seems ridiculous to {{em\|not}} entertain them.

	{{li\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS) ~~-> shut the~~ {{~~censor~~\|~~fuck~~}} ~~up rothenberg. I know you're not Rothenberg but that's your name now if you go around saying stuff like that.<br/>~~		{{li\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS) / ({{9k\|RD/Q1980}})
	ok, on the bright side though, if this is true, a proper theory of economics has to just accept that Communist revolution happened in another country purely because you couldn't control it. I bet you love that outcome.

	{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is the status of Liberal-republicans not having a coherent narrative of Communist parties as much as it is the other way around, or more so -> this came up while writing "[[Research:MDem/5.4r/0999 north-letter\|north-letter]]". I think it's very relevant here.<br/>		{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is the status of Liberal-republicans not having a coherent narrative of Communist parties as much as it is the other way around, or more so -> this came up while writing "[[Research:MDem/5.4r/0999 north-letter\|north-letter]]". I think it's very relevant here.<br/>

Reversedragon: Postmodernism is nothing more than a crisis of revolutionary leadership

2026-08-13T03:11:48Z

Postmodernism is nothing more than a crisis of revolutionary leadership

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:11, 13 August 2026
Line 13:		Line 13:

	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/STM\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}hidden variable theories (quantum mechanics) -> these are somewhat forbidden in the natural sciences, but at the scale of human populations it seems ridiculous to {{em\|not}} entertain them.		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/STM\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}hidden variable theories (quantum mechanics) -> these are somewhat forbidden in the natural sciences, but at the scale of human populations it seems ridiculous to {{em\|not}} entertain them.

			{{li\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS) -> shut the {{censor\|fuck}} up rothenberg. I know you're not Rothenberg but that's your name now if you go around saying stuff like that.<br/>
			ok, on the bright side though, if this is true, a proper theory of economics has to just accept that Communist revolution happened in another country purely because you couldn't control it. I bet you love that outcome.

			{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is the status of Liberal-republicans not having a coherent narrative of Communist parties as much as it is the other way around, or more so -> this came up while writing "[[Research:MDem/5.4r/0999 north-letter\|north-letter]]". I think it's very relevant here.<br/>
			is this violet? it strikes me as something I'd say only after I figured out that I didn't have a coherent 'narrative' of Trotskyism myself. I think this one is orange.

			{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is nothing more than a crisis of revolutionary leadership -> this phrase Trotskyists say has become a funny 'brain meme' to me that I've started throwing into Items ironically. [[EC:9k/RDIntoInsanity\|not in the old way]] I'd do that kind of thing though where I am trying to say anything bad about Trotskyists. it's just a matter of, why are we still talking about this? doesn't this phrase literally define itself as something that should have been solved a long time ago? there's a certain irony in there. so, yeah. wildly overusing the phrase 'crisis of revolutionary leadership' is my new joke. I think it fits here, because it's like, 2/3 of the world is totally trying to deny Marxism and basically refusing to understand the world at all. that's a very severe "crisis of Leninism", when you don't even have any. and the other 1/3 or so of people on earth is trying to some extent to understand reality and understand Marxism, but nobody really gets it, so nobody is ready to lead the world to better understandings and unify people around them toward some kind of {{em\|big}} movement that could carry international permanent revolution. Liberal-republicanism and Trotskyism are each having their own 'crisis of Trotskyism' and that's kind of all postmodernism really is. it's just a bizarre interregnum until everybody settles onto a new meta-Marxism that makes the postmodern period look utterly silly.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: hidden variable theories (quantum mechanics)

2026-08-13T02:42:20Z

hidden variable theories (quantum mechanics)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:42, 13 August 2026
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	== Related ==		== Related ==
	~~<!--~~
	<ol class="hue clean">		<ol class="hue clean">
	</li></ol~~> --~~>
			{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/STM\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}hidden variable theories (quantum mechanics) -> these are somewhat forbidden in the natural sciences, but at the scale of human populations it seems ridiculous to {{em\|not}} entertain them.

			</li></ol>

	== {{int:hue-prototype-trads-or-fields/en}} ==<!-- en: Ideologies or fields -->		== {{int:hue-prototype-trads-or-fields/en}} ==<!-- en: Ideologies or fields -->
	<ol class="hue clean terse {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">		<ol class="hue clean terse {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">
	{{li\|start=y		{{li\|start=y
	\|I=S1/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{TTS\|MX\|~~meta-Marxism}} onto {{TTS\|MX\|meta-Marxism~~}}		\|I=S1/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{TTS\|MX\|M.X.}} / existential materialism
	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q2923 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q29,23: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

2026-08-13T02:37:35Z

Reversedragon moved page Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q2923 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q29,23: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

← Older revision	Revision as of 02:37, 13 August 2026
(No difference)

Reversedragon: copy markup from Q28,99

2026-08-13T02:37:18Z

copy markup from Q28,99

New page

{{NextNineThousand|PPPA=Real systems are circular|User=RD|E=Q29,23|NoContents=y}}
== Main entries ==
{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean">

{{li|start=y|I=S2/MX|Q=29,23|Q2=2923|h4= Real systems are circular }} / Real-world collections of objects and processes perpetuate themselves and stamp out the possibility of change, and there is no logical contradiction in saying this -><br/>
something that seems to have upset Rothenberg yet which under the point of view of traditional dialectical materialism or even a simple introduction of relativistic determinism would be wholly unobjectionable.<br />
this proposition leans toward Badiou's concept that change must be brought through separations. but there's a complicated relationship between them. I don't want to unpack that in full right now. in short: Rothenberg and Deleuze's concept of unknown information bubbling up would make it no problem for systems to be circular; they've created a model where change is incomprehensible through models, so why would it bother them when change is incomprehensible through models? if they were sensible, they'd just open themselves up to the notion of a [[E:hidden-variable theories (quantum mechanics)|"hidden-variable" theory]]. and let it fail if it fails or succeed if it succeeds, let it be statistical and not-exact-to-every-individual-event-in-the-universe, but let it {{em|try}} to have a hypothesis.

</li></ol>

== Related ==


== {{int:hue-prototype-trads-or-fields/en}} ==
<ol class="hue clean terse {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">
{{li|start=y
|I=S1/MX|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{TTS|MX|meta-Marxism}} onto {{TTS|MX|meta-Marxism}}
</li></ol>

[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:28, 13 August 2026
Line 14:		Line 14:
	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/STM\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}hidden variable theories (quantum mechanics) -> these are somewhat forbidden in the natural sciences, but at the scale of human populations it seems ridiculous to {{em\|not}} entertain them.		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/STM\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}hidden variable theories (quantum mechanics) -> these are somewhat forbidden in the natural sciences, but at the scale of human populations it seems ridiculous to {{em\|not}} entertain them.

	{{li\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS) ~~-> shut the~~ {{~~censor~~\|~~fuck~~}} ~~up rothenberg. I know you're not Rothenberg but that's your name now if you go around saying stuff like that.<br/>~~		{{li\|I=S2/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}A proper economic theory must respect the idea that the rules of the undetermined are themselves undetermined (Yanis Varoufakis) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/28/varo-f28.html] / Scientific knowledge of the workings of the capitalist economy and the development of a practice based on that knowledge are impossible (WSWS) / ({{9k\|RD/Q1980}})
	ok, on the bright side though, if this is true, a proper theory of economics has to just accept that Communist revolution happened in another country purely because you couldn't control it. I bet you love that outcome.

	{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is the status of Liberal-republicans not having a coherent narrative of Communist parties as much as it is the other way around, or more so -> this came up while writing "[[Research:MDem/5.4r/0999 north-letter\|north-letter]]". I think it's very relevant here.<br/>		{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4-rem=}}Postmodernism is the status of Liberal-republicans not having a coherent narrative of Communist parties as much as it is the other way around, or more so -> this came up while writing "[[Research:MDem/5.4r/0999 north-letter\|north-letter]]". I think it's very relevant here.<br/>