Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q4,1,1,1 - Revision history

Reversedragon: link: Workers' International League failing to join Fourth International

2026-06-28T12:34:46Z

link: Workers' International League failing to join Fourth International

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:34, 28 June 2026
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	{{li\|I=Z1/DX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Organization 3.2.4 — Communist Party of Cuba		{{li\|I=Z1/DX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Organization 3.2.4 — Communist Party of Cuba

	{{li\|I=Z1/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Organization 3.3.?? — Workers' International League -> singled out by Trotsky as nationally-focused, but in practice worse than Dengist parties, so I made it blue. the WIL devolved into an entryist party with no strategy against bourgeois leaders, and then merged with Pabloism to become the USFI.<br/>		{{li\|I=Z1/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Organization 3.3.?? — Workers' International League -> singled out by Trotsky as nationally-focused, but in practice worse than Dengist parties, so I made it blue. [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/12/27/ofjx-d27.html] the WIL devolved into an entryist party with no strategy against bourgeois leaders, and then merged with Pabloism to become the USFI.<br/>
	I'm not sure if this should be under "Second Internationals" or not.		I'm not sure if this should be under "Second Internationals" or not.

Reversedragon: class traitor from Trotskyism

2026-06-28T07:13:39Z

class traitor from Trotskyism

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:13, 28 June 2026
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	{{li\|I=Z1/ES\|Q=618 \|Q2=618 }}International 4.2.1.1 / International Socialist Tendency (IST; 1977) / International Socialist Organization (generic; name of sections) -> this one was a little hard to place but I'm trying to place it next to the Militant Tendency pre- forming the CWI according to its ideology and its position as a second right opposition to the RCP.		{{li\|I=Z1/ES\|Q=618 \|Q2=618 }}International 4.2.1.1 / International Socialist Tendency (IST; 1977) / International Socialist Organization (generic; name of sections) -> this one was a little hard to place but I'm trying to place it next to the Militant Tendency pre- forming the CWI according to its ideology and its position as a second right opposition to the RCP.

	{{li\|I=Z1/DX\|Q=~~618~~ \|Q2=~~618~~ }}International 4.2.2 / Committee for a Workers' International (CWI) -> after largely screwing things up, Ted Grant finally figures out that he shouldn't work with Pabloism and founds an organization that is marginally better than his previous ones but still questionable.		{{li\|I=Z1/DX\|Q=46,09\|Q2=4609}}International 4.2.2 / Committee for a Workers' International (CWI) -> after largely screwing things up, Ted Grant finally figures out that he shouldn't work with Pabloism and founds an organization that is marginally better than his previous ones but still questionable.

	{{li\|I=Z1/IV\|Q=618 \|Q2=618 }}International 4.2.2.1 / International Marxist Tendency (IMT) ; Revolutionary Communist International (RCI) -> this organization is one big contradiction because I had been listening to their talks and what they say is completely different from what Ted Grant apparently did. because of that ambiguity I tentatively mark them orange.		{{li\|I=Z1/IV\|Q=618 \|Q2=618 }}International 4.2.2.1 / International Marxist Tendency (IMT) ; Revolutionary Communist International (RCI) -> this organization is one big contradiction because I had been listening to their talks and what they say is completely different from what Ted Grant apparently did. because of that ambiguity I tentatively mark them orange.
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618}}Hugo Chavez is an opportunist (Communist Party of Venezuela) [https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5640/] -> both the PCV and the Trotskyists make interesting points and I really don't know who's right		{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618}}Hugo Chavez is an opportunist (Communist Party of Venezuela) [https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5640/] -> both the PCV and the Trotskyists make interesting points and I really don't know who's right

	{{li\|I=Z1/IV\|~~Q=46~~,~~09\|Q2=4609}}Committee for~~ a ~~Workers~~' ~~International (defunct)~~ / ~~CWI (attempted International)~~		</li><li class="field_exstruct" data-tradition="ES onto Zv, PT onto Zv" value="618" data-dimension="S">class traitor from Trotskyism -> the motif of generally bourgeois/[[E:Careerist layer (meta-Marxism)\|Careerist]] people who drop out of Trotskyism and almost inevitably turn blue or brown.<br />
			the big question is, why do they do this. what new structure are they being put into and what is appealing to them about the new structure? and I would hazard a guess the new structure is "one big disorganized Filament of socially-linked Friends pouring across multiple countries with Pete standing behind it with a wad of money". that's it. friendship is lethal. 'the tangle' looks more like popular descriptions of Trotskyism than anything Trotskyist theorists have been able to create themselves, so they get sucked into it like a vortex. and then they all have to accept that Pete's life matters to events on earth but none of the million Friends Linked Together he supports actually matter, doesn't matter if they're dead as long as another group of socially-linked friends dies and Pete's group wins.<br />
			George Orwell - case of - class traitor from Trotskyism

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q4111 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q4,1,1,1: Entity number or thesis portal structure was not final

2026-06-28T05:59:07Z

Reversedragon moved page Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q4111 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q4,1,1,1: Entity number or thesis portal structure was not final

← Older revision	Revision as of 05:59, 28 June 2026
(No difference)

Reversedragon: add IMT & ISO ; sorted by theoretical quality - sort by date later

2026-06-28T05:18:06Z

add IMT & ISO ; sorted by theoretical quality - sort by date later

Show changes

Reversedragon: Fourth International

2026-06-28T02:04:27Z

Fourth International

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:04, 28 June 2026
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	== Fourth internationals ==		== Fourth internationals ==
	~~<!--~~ <ol class="hue clean">		<ol class="hue clean">
	</li></ol> -->
			</li><li class="field_trotsky" value="4638" data-dimension="Z">International 4.0 / [[E:Q4601\|Fourth International]] (1938) -> became: Q46,01 International Secretariat, Q46,02 International Committee

			</li><li class="field_trotsky" value="4602" data-dimension="Z">International 4.1 / International Committee (1953) / ICFI (attempted International)

			</li><li class="field_trotsky" value="4601" data-dimension="Z">International 4.2 / International Secretariat (1953) / ISFI (attempted International)

			</li></ol>

	== Related ==		== Related ==
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618}}Hugo Chavez is an opportunist (Communist Party of Venezuela) [https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5640/] -> both the PCV and the Trotskyists make interesting points and I really don't know who's right		{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618}}Hugo Chavez is an opportunist (Communist Party of Venezuela) [https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5640/] -> both the PCV and the Trotskyists make interesting points and I really don't know who's right

			</li><li class="field_trotsky" value="4609" data-dimension="Z">Committee for a Workers' International (defunct) / CWI (attempted International)

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Hugo Chavez is an opportunist

2026-05-24T21:00:11Z

Hugo Chavez is an opportunist

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:00, 24 May 2026
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	== Related ==		== Related ==
	~~<!--~~
	<ol class="hue clean">		<ol class="hue clean">
	</li></ol~~> --~~>
			{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/ML\|Q=618}}Hugo Chavez is an opportunist (Communist Party of Venezuela) [https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5640/] -> both the PCV and the Trotskyists make interesting points and I really don't know who's right

			</li></ol>

	<!--		<!--

Reversedragon: copy markup from FourthPoliticalTheoryDugin

2026-05-24T20:58:48Z

copy markup from FourthPoliticalTheoryDugin

New page

{{NextNineThousand|PPPA=comintern version 2.2|User=RD|E=Q618|Contents=y}}
== Main entry ==
{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean">

{{li|start=y|I=S1/IV/MX|WQ=
|Q=4111|Q2=4111|h4= versioning Communist Internationals like software packages }} -> this is partly a joke but also at least 30% serious. if we're looking at something that's optional rather than centrally standardized, I honestly think it would make stuff like splits in Trotskyism way easier to follow if every single Trotskyist international had a specific number. I know that would probably get a little ridiculous at some point, like "4.2.3.1.5". but even that would be an improvement, I mean in chemistry there are these big long IUPAC names that are super hard to remember but are effective at condensing what are basically pictures or complicated undirected graphs into text form; it would have a similar function to that. I want to make a page of unofficial point versions for every "communist International" (that's been important, at least), both the long and unwieldy way, and maybe also a shorter way where the branched Internationals are just listed in order so you have "International 4-25", etc.<br/>
one thing I'm sure of about this: there actually is an objective way to order some of these, you just record the date they were founded and order them by date, and for the ones that have distinct dates you don't have to worry too deeply about which party was better. beyond that, if two form at the same time, I think you favor groups that still exist versus groups that stopped existing, and you favor groups that stay the closest to the 'best' version of Marxism that they either don't oppose or are the closest to not opposing, mostly limited to Stalin's Marxism / Hoxhaism, and Trotskyism. that actually becomes comically easy for a second international, because you'll be able to tell very quickly which ones vaguely resemble Marxism at all and which ones absolutely don't.

</li></ol>

== Second internationals ==
<ol class="hue clean">

{{li|start=y|I=S1/W|Q=618}}Hugo Chavez and the fifth International [https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5640/] -> this sounds more like a second international to me, International Two-point-Two. but at least it's something.

</li></ol>

== First internationals ==


== Third internationals ==


== Fourth internationals ==


== Related ==



== Ideologies or fields ==


* (none)


[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]]