Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q41,67/OldRacismToModern - Revision history

Reversedragon: break up run-on sentences and move some parentheticals within prompt into annotations

2026-09-17T02:59:01Z

break up run-on sentences and move some parentheticals within prompt into annotations

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:59, 17 September 2026
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	{{ArticleTitle\|h1=9k:RD/OldRacismToModern (~~Q46~~,99)}}		{{ArticleTitle\|h1=9k:RD/OldRacismToModern (Q41,67)}}
	<!--== Question ==		<!--== Question ==
	<ol class="hue clean {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ES}}">		<ol class="hue clean {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ES}}">
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	{{HueCSS}}<blockquote class="verbose">		{{HueCSS}}<blockquote class="verbose">
	{{testimony\|How is Trotskyism's conception of the revolutionary subject different from the concept of "seeing from below" as in abolitionism (Cedric Robinson and Ruth Wilson Gilmore's tendency)?}}<br/>		{{testimony\|How is Trotskyism's conception of the revolutionary subject different from the concept of "seeing from below" as in abolitionism (Cedric Robinson and Ruth Wilson Gilmore's tendency)?}}<br/>
	{{testimony\|If only the more developed forms of society as the more naked and literalized forms of earlier forms or material results of society's previous processes can shed light on previous class processes, as Marx says in the Grundrisse (form of man illuminates development of ape), then how would somebody like Kimberlé Crenshaw or Ruth Wilson Gilmore have any idea not to take modern conditions of structural racism ~~(capital and competition between individuals for finite territories in capitalism compounding on previous inequalities between populations)~~, in which some U.S. cities become aware of structural racism before they become aware of capital itself, and project modern racism back onto 1619 to get 'race economics'?}}<br/>		<!-- -->{{correction\|[It is fundamentally focused on capital and the action of capital-territories.]}}<br/>
	{{testimony\|In one sense, modern racism would appear on the surface to be a barer form of previous instances of U.S. racism, and if Marx said that only the people deep inside an exploitative system and in contact with the new barest forms of exploitation and degradation will be able to become the subjective factor and break everyone free from it from that group's own vantage point (yes, as far as the 1900-2020 period is concerned he actually meant the proletariat of all races inside capital), then it would certainly seem appealing to people in a period where job applications are getting denied for "Black names" and White people (journalists as on Fox News, police officers) are trying to send Black people straight to prison for their "inherent culture" that actually belongs to White judgements to think that somehow prejudice is the most basic process of exploitation in society, as it exploits people who could never "bring the economy to a halt" when they can't work in the first place in order to more tightly control the fraction of Black people and recent immigrants that do get into jobs, and from a point of view slightly closer to Marxism than either Crenshaw or Gilmore could be said to be the process exploiting Third World people who have not yet been integrated into First World capitalism that "prejudiced" capitalists (or in reality capital-territories themselves going through their own logic) seek out for cheap labor.}}<!--		{{testimony\|If only the more developed forms of society as the more naked and literalized forms of earlier forms or material results of society's previous processes can shed light on previous class processes, as Marx says in the Grundrisse (form of man illuminates development of ape),}}<br/>
			{{testimony\|then how would somebody like Kimberlé Crenshaw or Ruth Wilson Gilmore have any idea not to take modern conditions of structural racism, in which some U.S. cities become aware of structural racism before they become aware of capital itself, and project modern racism back onto 1619 to get 'race economics'?}}<br/>
			<!-- -->{{correction\|[structural racism: capital, and competition between individuals for finite territories in capitalism, compounding on previous inequalities between populations.]}}<br/>
			{{testimony\|In one sense, modern racism would appear on the surface to be a barer form of previous instances of U.S. racism,}}<br/>
			{{testimony\|and if Marx said that only the people deep inside an exploitative system and in contact with the new barest forms of exploitation and degradation will be able to become the subjective factor and break everyone free from it from that group's own vantage point,}}<br/>
			<!-- -->{{correction\|[exploited people: yes, as far as the 1900-2020 period is concerned he actually meant the proletariat of all races inside capital.]}}<br/>
			{{testimony\|then it would certainly seem appealing to people in a period where job applications are getting denied for "Black names" and White people (journalists as on Fox News, police officers) are trying to send Black people straight to prison for their "inherent culture" that actually belongs to White judgements to think that somehow prejudice is the most basic process of exploitation in society,}}<br/>
			{{testimony\|as it exploits people who could never "bring the economy to a halt" when they can't work in the first place in order to more tightly control the fraction of Black people and recent immigrants that do get into jobs,}}<br/>
			{{testimony\|and from a point of view slightly closer to Marxism than either Crenshaw or Gilmore could be said to be the process exploiting Third World people who have not yet been integrated into First World capitalism that "prejudiced" capitalists (or in reality capital-territories themselves going through their own logic) seek out for cheap labor.}}<!--
	{{correction\|[placeholder]}} -->		{{correction\|[placeholder]}} -->
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

	== Motifs or claims in prompt (no AI) ==		== Motifs or claims in prompt (no AI) ==
	~~<!--~~
	<ol class="hue clean reset {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">		<ol class="hue clean reset {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">
	{{li\|start=y\|I=M3/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}
	</li></ol~~> --~~>		{{li\|start=y\|I=Z1/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}revolutionary subject (Trotskyism)

			{{li\|I=S1/ES\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}standpoint epistemology

			{{li\|I=S2/MZ/ML\|tradition=MZ\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Comprehend the world from below / Comprehend the world from the position of the oppressed and exploited rather than from the position of the oppressor and exploiter (J. Moufawad-Paul)

			{{li\|I=S1/RG\|Q=41,67\|Q2=4167}}abolition (Robinson, Gilmore) / ({{9k\|RD/Q41,67}})

			{{li\|I=Z1/PT\|tradition=RG onto PT, ES onto PT\|Q=13,50\|Q2=1350}}[[E:Q13,50\|structural racism]]

			{{li\|I=S2/A \|Q=618\|Q2=618}}United States society is made of racism (anarchism) / United States society was originally built on racism, because it was built through an original act of capturing other populations as slaves or killing other populations in frontier wars to secure new territories (mines, ranches, etc.); the existence of primitive accumulation means that the United States was built on racism (sense)

			{{li\|I=S2/RG\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}United States society is made of racism / race economics (generic) / United States society was not only originally built on but is fundamentally regenerated out of racism every week or every year

			{{li\|I=S1/MN/IV\|tradition=MN\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}subsumption of life into capital (Marx) / building capital off the unemployed (generic)

			</li></ol>

	== Motifs or claims from response ==		== Motifs or claims from response ==
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	* {{int:language-model-rules-nickel-stack/en}}		* {{int:language-model-rules-nickel-stack/en}}
	* {{int:language-model-rules-arrow/en}}		* {{int:language-model-rules-arrow/en}}
			* Note: some of the annotations in the prompt were originally part of the prompt. They were moved into annotations to make the prompt easier to read.
	<!--		<!--

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	== Ideologies, fields, topics, or search engines ==<!-- int:hue-prototype-trads-or-.../en -->		== Ideologies, fields, topics, or search engines ==<!-- int:hue-prototype-trads-or-.../en -->
	~~<!--~~
	<ol class="hue clean terse {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">		<ol class="hue clean terse {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">
	{{li\|start=y		{{li\|start=y
	\|I=S1/IV\|Q=46,99\|Q2=4699}}{{TTS\|IV\|Trotskyism}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q4699\|Socialism AI]]		\|I=Z1/IV\|Q=46,99\|Q2=4699}}{{TTS\|IV\|Trotskyism}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q4699\|Socialism AI]]
			{{li\|I=S1/MN/IV\|Q=41,01\|Q2=4101}}{{TTS\|MN\|M.N.}} / early Marxism
			{{li\|I=S1/RG\|Q=41,67\|Q2=4167}}{{TTS\|RG\|R.G.}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q41,67\|abolitionism]] (Western-Marxism)
			{{li\|I=Z1/RG\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{TTS\|RG\|R.G.}} / {{book\|Black Marxism}}
			{{li\|I=Z1/MZ/ML\|Q=41,16\|Q2=4116}}{{TTS\|NMZ\|Maoism}} / North American Maoism
			</li></ol>
			<!--
	{{li\|I=S1/IV\|Q=41,04\|Q2=4104}}{{TTS\|IV\|Fourth}} / Trotskyism		{{li\|I=S1/IV\|Q=41,04\|Q2=4104}}{{TTS\|IV\|Fourth}} / Trotskyism
	{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q=92\|Q2=92}}{{TTS\|MX\|meta-Marxism}} / [[E:Q92\|violet Marxism]]		{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q=92\|Q2=92}}{{TTS\|MX\|meta-Marxism}} / [[E:Q92\|violet Marxism]]
	{{li\|I=Z1/ML\|Q=41,03\|Q2=4103}}{{TTS\|ML\|M-L}} / Stalin's Marxism (2020s)		{{li\|I=Z1/ML\|Q=41,03\|Q2=4103}}{{TTS\|ML\|M-L}} / Stalin's Marxism (2020s)
	{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=44,43\|Q2=4443}}{{TTS\|ML\|M-L}} / Stalinism as meta-Marxism		{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=44,43\|Q2=4443}}{{TTS\|ML\|M-L}} / Stalinism as meta-Marxism
	~~</li></ol>~~-->		-->


	[[Category:"Trans4mer" pages (RD)]] [[Category:Nickel links (NickelBank)]] <!-- page ends here. TTS-unfriendly strings incoming		[[Category:"Trans4mer" pages (RD)]] [[Category:Nickel links (NickelBank)]] <!-- page ends here. TTS-unfriendly strings incoming
	redirects or titles: [[Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q41,67/OldRacismToModern]]		redirects or titles: [[Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q41,67/OldRacismToModern]]
	Thread ID (for search purposes): ~~(none)~~		Thread ID (for search purposes): a41570ae-19ab-47c8-be77-a88f3e20903b
	~~created: 2026~~-09-~~17T09:51:08H~~
	duplication hint: copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNNN\|trans4mer page]] -->		duplication hint: copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNNN\|trans4mer page]] -->

Reversedragon: copy markup from trans4mer page

2026-09-17T02:06:48Z

copy markup from trans4mer page

New page

{{ArticleTitle|h1=9k:RD/OldRacismToModern (Q46,99)}}

== Prompt ==
{{HueCSS}}<blockquote class="verbose">
{{testimony|How is Trotskyism's conception of the revolutionary subject different from the concept of "seeing from below" as in abolitionism (Cedric Robinson and Ruth Wilson Gilmore's tendency)?}}<br/>
{{testimony|If only the more developed forms of society as the more naked and literalized forms of earlier forms or material results of society's previous processes can shed light on previous class processes, as Marx says in the Grundrisse (form of man illuminates development of ape), then how would somebody like Kimberlé Crenshaw or Ruth Wilson Gilmore have any idea not to take modern conditions of structural racism (capital and competition between individuals for finite territories in capitalism compounding on previous inequalities between populations), in which some U.S. cities become aware of structural racism before they become aware of capital itself, and project modern racism back onto 1619 to get 'race economics'?}}<br/>
{{testimony|In one sense, modern racism would appear on the surface to be a barer form of previous instances of U.S. racism, and if Marx said that only the people deep inside an exploitative system and in contact with the new barest forms of exploitation and degradation will be able to become the subjective factor and break everyone free from it from that group's own vantage point (yes, as far as the 1900-2020 period is concerned he actually meant the proletariat of all races inside capital), then it would certainly seem appealing to people in a period where job applications are getting denied for "Black names" and White people (journalists as on Fox News, police officers) are trying to send Black people straight to prison for their "inherent culture" that actually belongs to White judgements to think that somehow prejudice is the most basic process of exploitation in society, as it exploits people who could never "bring the economy to a halt" when they can't work in the first place in order to more tightly control the fraction of Black people and recent immigrants that do get into jobs, and from a point of view slightly closer to Marxism than either Crenshaw or Gilmore could be said to be the process exploiting Third World people who have not yet been integrated into First World capitalism that "prejudiced" capitalists (or in reality capital-territories themselves going through their own logic) seek out for cheap labor.}}
</blockquote>

== Motifs or claims in prompt (no AI) ==


== Motifs or claims from response ==


* The revolutionary subject is not an epistemological angle
* The proletariat is not based on suffering / worker compression (generic)
* misery as revolutionary credential (Communist Manifesto?)
* defining revolutionary subject by distance from production
* Capitalism has taken away local and particular class structures to replace them with a more general one
* Capitalism illuminates slavery not because there was racism inside both of them but because capitalism created a more bare and generic kind of relationship than inside slavery -> ok, that one was almost in the question but it basically got a different position of the 'because'.
* Bourgeois academics experience the same overall kind of scarcity of capital-territories as minority ethnicities (Black people; immigrants; etc) experience in situations where racists attempt to keep them out of jobs or arrest them out of prejudice / everybodyism (generic)
* Instances of structural racism are an appearance-form hiding the class relation / Racism is an outer phenomenon / Saying modern capitalism came out of modern racism is an inversion
* If a purported revolutionary subject cannot actually bring the economy to a halt, then by itself, it cannot form (cannot be; cannot create) the revolutionary subject -> I have to include "by itself" because Marxism doesn't really say a revolution can't have allies. peasants being made into the proletariat, etc. as long as they actually get there and they don't turn around and try to detach themselves from the Soviet Union and become bourgeoisie in the middle of that.

== Subjective themes (no AI) ==


== Usage notes ==
* {{int:language-model-rules-paraphrase/en}}
* {{int:language-model-rules-nickel-stack/en}}
* {{int:language-model-rules-arrow/en}}


== Ideologies, fields, topics, or search engines ==


[[Category:"Trans4mer" pages (RD)]] [[Category:Nickel links (NickelBank)]]