Reversedragon: what the proletariat is fighting for

2026-09-19T21:25:28Z

what the proletariat is fighting for

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:25, 19 September 2026
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	== Motifs or claims in prompt (no AI) ==		== Motifs or claims in prompt (no AI) ==
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			{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}what the proletariat is fighting for

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	== Motifs or claims from response ==		== Motifs or claims from response ==
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			{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Because {{book\|The Transitional Program}} says that organizations take up workers' immediate demands, the ICFI is in fact connecting workers' immediate demands to the struggle for power rather than discarding them -> I think the bot is just lying to people now because that is a chain of logic separate from what WSWS articles are actually saying.

			{{li\|I=S2/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}The party defends the democratic rights and social conquests of the workers (Trotsky) -> that sounds to me like it isn't the same thing as demands.

			{{li\|I=S1/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}objective conditions (Trotskyism) / country characteristics (generic)

			{{li\|I=S2/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}The proletariat is the first class that can understand its position -> this seems misleading. I think it's hiding the difference between small groups of proletarians and large groups of proletarians and not acknowledging them as different things.

			{{li\|I=S2/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}The proletariat can win against global capitalism only based on consciousness of itself

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	== Subjective themes (no AI) ==		== Subjective themes (no AI) ==
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	{{li\|start=y		{{li\|start=y
	\|I=Z1/IV\|Q=46,99\|Q2=4699}}{{TTS\|IV\|Trotskyism}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q4699\|Socialism AI]]		\|I=Z1/IV\|Q=46,99\|Q2=4699}}{{TTS\|IV\|Trotskyism}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q4699\|Socialism AI]]
			{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q= 92\|Q2= 92}}{{TTS\|MX\|M.X.}} / [[E:Q92\|meta-Marxism]]
	{{li\|I=S1/IV\|Q=41,04\|Q2=4104}}{{TTS\|IV\|Fourth}} / Trotskyism		{{li\|I=S1/IV\|Q=41,04\|Q2=4104}}{{TTS\|IV\|Fourth}} / Trotskyism
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	{{li\|I=S1/MN/IV\|Q=41,01\|Q2=4101}}{{TTS\|MN\|M.N.}} / early Marxism		{{li\|I=S1/MN/IV\|Q=41,01\|Q2=4101}}{{TTS\|MN\|M.N.}} / early Marxism
	~~{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q=92\|Q2=92}}{{TTS\|MX\|meta-Marxism}} / [[E:Q92\|violet Marxism]]~~
	{{li\|I=Z1/ML\|Q=41,03\|Q2=4103}}{{TTS\|ML\|M-L}} / Stalin's Marxism (2020s)		{{li\|I=Z1/ML\|Q=41,03\|Q2=4103}}{{TTS\|ML\|M-L}} / Stalin's Marxism (2020s)
	{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=44,43\|Q2=4443}}{{TTS\|ML\|M-L}} / Stalinism as meta-Marxism		{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=44,43\|Q2=4443}}{{TTS\|ML\|M-L}} / Stalinism as meta-Marxism

Reversedragon: copy markup from trans4mer page

2026-09-19T20:57:41Z

copy markup from trans4mer page

New page

{{ArticleTitle|h1=9k:RD/YouCanOnlyDoRevolution (Q46,66 #1)}}

== Prompt ==
{{HueCSS}}<blockquote class="verbose">
How can the proletariat ever come to power if all it can do is revolution?<br/>
It seems like every other time I ask a question I get an answer about "the subjective factor" and how material contradictions are only very loosely approximated by devices like probabilities and there is only a specific way material contradictions can be resolved, which is "the subjective factor". This seems to be tightly connected with the concept of world revolution itself. The proletariat becomes conscious of itself and links up into larger chunks of proletariat at the same time. Any given collection of people only has power or is able to join up with other collections of people if it is led by the proletariat. But it seems the only key to success is linking up the proletariat and telling them that all their actual demands are nonsense and they only have trade union consciousness until they all agree to stay linked into a bigger group of proletarians that is independent of all the things it's actually made of, including unions and union leadership, industries and industry knowledge, and demographics and civil rights movements that link people together.<br/>
I do not understand how this makes any sense. If the only thing the proletariat is fighting for is being the proletariat, but it has to keep that up for ten years or more to link up all the proletarians in every industrial country and get through permanent revolution, how can that movement ever complete and create a world workers' state if it doesn't actually have any goals? I feel like a lot of betrayals and losses of apparent revolutionary leadership happen because people realize that they aren't actually achieving anything so far by just joining people up into a large collection of proletarians. Trotskyist writings are always talking about "the crisis of revolutionary leadership". But that seems to be at odds with the way they always talk about "the subjective factor" and basically seem to be claiming that the process of world revolution involves realizing that the proletariat is incapable of having any actual demands or goals except world revolution and that will somehow keep people united for 10+ years even though they have other needs as living beings and will likely defect from the movement in order to survive.

</blockquote>

== Motifs or claims in prompt (no AI) ==


== Motifs or claims from response ==


== Subjective themes (no AI) ==


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== Ideologies, fields, topics, or search engines ==
<ol class="hue clean terse {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">
{{li|start=y
|I=Z1/IV|Q=46,99|Q2=4699}}{{TTS|IV|Trotskyism}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q4699|Socialism AI]]
{{li|I=S1/IV|Q=41,04|Q2=4104}}{{TTS|IV|Fourth}} / Trotskyism
</li></ol>



[[Category:"Trans4mer" pages (RD)]]

Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q4666/YouCanOnlyDoRevolution - Revision history

Reversedragon: what the proletariat is fighting for

Reversedragon: copy markup from trans4mer page