Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q69,12 - Revision history

Reversedragon: go to NorthernLight

2026-07-19T08:39:49Z

go to NorthernLight

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:39, 19 July 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Dess is not whole in the sense that Kris and Susie are {{YouTube\|SujMfaY8FG0}} -> probably.		{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Dess is not whole in the sense that Kris and Susie are {{YouTube\|SujMfaY8FG0}} -> probably.

			</li></ol>

			=== The incident ===
			<ol class="hue clean field_horror">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/UTDR/WD66\|Q=68,87\|Q2=6887}}Dess and the incident

			{{li\|I=S1/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{caps\|NorthernLight}} / go to northernlight -> mysterious location given as a hint.<br/>
			{{caps\|NorthernLight}} + No L / Noelle = the Thorn Ring. (I did not solve this; try to retrieve later)

			{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{caps\|NorthernLight}} is Dess' room {{YouTube\|wvO_EjB0lPc}} / go to northernlight (generic) -> that's almost certainly true. well done.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: The girl will die This Holiday

2026-07-05T04:28:39Z

The girl will die This Holiday

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:28, 5 July 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}that girl -> it only hit me recently that such an odd phrasing is similar to the prophecy. most people tend to assume Dess is or was a "girl" and so there hypothetically could have been two rounds of the prophecy. I also feel like there were two rounds of the prophecy but I don't think the first one was actually completed, which may have led to this one.		{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}that girl -> it only hit me recently that such an odd phrasing is similar to the prophecy. most people tend to assume Dess is or was a "girl" and so there hypothetically could have been two rounds of the prophecy. I also feel like there were two rounds of the prophecy but I don't think the first one was actually completed, which may have led to this one.

	{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=~~618~~\|Q2=~~618~~}}The girl will die {{caps\|This Holiday}} -> I think this is almost certainly what the prophecy panel said. my thought: this sentence has about three possible meanings. A) Noelle dies. B) Dess dies. C) The old version of Dess "dies" but everybody survives.		{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=66,76\|Q2=6676}}The girl will die {{caps\|This Holiday}} / The missing prophecy panel says "{{caps\|The girl will die This Holiday}}" (sense) <!-- / ({{9k\|RD/Q69,12}}) --> -> I think this is almost certainly what the prophecy panel said. my thought: this sentence has about three possible meanings. A) Noelle dies. B) Dess dies. C) The old version of Dess "dies" but everybody survives.

	{{li\|I=S2/Fy/LGBT\|Q=66,47\|Q2=6647}}The eggs are a metaphor for gender -> a bit of a joke but it's worth bringing up for just a second.		{{li\|I=S2/Fy/LGBT\|Q=66,47\|Q2=6647}}The eggs are a metaphor for gender -> a bit of a joke but it's worth bringing up for just a second.

Reversedragon: The original prophecy broke because Dess was not a girl

2026-07-05T01:10:01Z

The original prophecy broke because Dess was not a girl

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:10, 5 July 2026
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	low confidence in this but it's an interesting thought. looking at how small-scale Deltarune's events are it makes a little more sense it would be something between Kris, Dess, and Noelle than the forgotten man being an image of some mysterious experimenter in a bunker. Gaster definitely exists somewhere but it's possible there was no Gaster inside Deltarune until Deltarune created Undertale which then created Deltarune. thus... it could be that the forgotten "man" is Kris trying to forget the concept that Dess could still be alive and just move on. but then the shadow of Dess — the second one that's not the Knight — started handing them eggs and made it harder to forget her. don't forget. if you forget her she's with you in the dark. find her, him/her/them.<br />		low confidence in this but it's an interesting thought. looking at how small-scale Deltarune's events are it makes a little more sense it would be something between Kris, Dess, and Noelle than the forgotten man being an image of some mysterious experimenter in a bunker. Gaster definitely exists somewhere but it's possible there was no Gaster inside Deltarune until Deltarune created Undertale which then created Deltarune. thus... it could be that the forgotten "man" is Kris trying to forget the concept that Dess could still be alive and just move on. but then the shadow of Dess — the second one that's not the Knight — started handing them eggs and made it harder to forget her. don't forget. if you forget her she's with you in the dark. find her, him/her/them.<br />
	it would be very funny if Dess really was nonbinary specifically as a joke on Scott Cawthon making that little typo in the "save him" minigame. I hope that's what it is. I hope that's what the pizza and purple-guy references are actually pointing to. maybe the better ending of Deltarune is that they find Dess but he comes out as a man or nonbinary and they saved him. little did you know Gaster was one big hyperbole about what happens when Dess is not accepted in his gender transition and runs away, maybe out of the universe, when you're a kid you wouldn't know where he went		it would be very funny if Dess really was nonbinary specifically as a joke on Scott Cawthon making that little typo in the "save him" minigame. I hope that's what it is. I hope that's what the pizza and purple-guy references are actually pointing to. maybe the better ending of Deltarune is that they find Dess but he comes out as a man or nonbinary and they saved him. little did you know Gaster was one big hyperbole about what happens when Dess is not accepted in his gender transition and runs away, maybe out of the universe, when you're a kid you wouldn't know where he went

			{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}The original prophecy broke because Dess was not a girl

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: that girl

2026-07-05T01:08:58Z

that girl

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 {{li|I=S1/HAS|Q=618|Q2=618}}Feuerbach and Deltarune / ({{9k|RD/Q618-FeuerbachAndDeltarune}})
 </li></ol>
@@ Line 39: / Line 43: @@
 {{li|I=S2/DFy|Q=618|Q2=618}}Dess' Soul was put inside Kris in order to be able to control Kris  ->  interesting how I have seen the theory both ways around, but I don't think people always subscribe to both of them at the same time.
 </li></ol>

Reversedragon: Deltarune and Twin Peaks / The Knight is a ball of glass

2026-07-02T09:06:45Z

Deltarune and Twin Peaks / The Knight is a ball of glass

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:06, 2 July 2026
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	{{li\|I=S1/Fy\|Q=12,24\|Q2=1224}}calendar date as leitmotif -> "{{TTS\|tts=12-25\|1225}}".		{{li\|I=S1/Fy\|Q=12,24\|Q2=1224}}calendar date as leitmotif -> "{{TTS\|tts=12-25\|1225}}".

			{{li\|I=S1/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{film\|Deltarune}} and {{film\|Twin Peaks}}

	{{li\|I=S1/HAS\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Feuerbach and Deltarune / ({{9k\|RD/Q618-FeuerbachAndDeltarune}})		{{li\|I=S1/HAS\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Feuerbach and Deltarune / ({{9k\|RD/Q618-FeuerbachAndDeltarune}})
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	{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Waterfall is retelling Dess' story / Waterfall in Undertale is secretly retelling one or more incidents in Dess' backstory / There is secret foreshadowing for Deltarune hidden in Undyne's theme songs in Undertale -> this sounds unlikely until you notice it. so, in the Ruins there is a particular theme associated with Toriel. this motif then appears again a little skewed in Undyne's theme. that's a slightly weird motif to be in there. you'd think it's maybe because of some stretched link from Toriel to Sans to Papyrus to Undyne. but it's not. because versions of the Ruins motif carry through into Battle Against a True Hero and into Gerson's theme. so what is that theme doing in the Ruins? you have to remember what Undyne does in the main story of Undertale — she tells you about how she learned to fight from Gerson. so believe it or not that motif in her theme is actually about learning from somebody older and more experienced, and that's why it's used in the Ruins as Toriel's theme. but then you look at the Waterfall theme, which is also a slower version of Undyne's theme, and in turn, a different version of the Ruins theme. funny enough, when you get into Hotland the Core has the same theme so it's a very central theme to Undertale. Snowdin is the only one that's weird — which is because it's a distantly-related version of Noelle's flashback theme that nobody would have known about until Deltarune but that totally existed before Undertale as evidenced by Gaster's theme also coming from it. I think Waterfall is more critical to understanding Deltarune than it would appear because the concept of Undyne learning from Gerson is written all over it, from the Waterfall theme to Undyne's main theme to Battle Against a True Hero. when you meet Gerson in Chapter 4 you visually see {{em\|waterfalls}} there multiple times. and the whole time they're associated with tears and by extension Shadow Crystals ("something grew"). I think Waterfall as a whole is somehow telling a story of how Dess sort of terrorized Kris but also became a mentor figure that left a huge impact. if I remember right the waterfall like, goes off the edge, and Alphys was looking down it in depression? I think that was another hint of what the waterfall means. Undertale is secretly about losing Dess. it keeps it very quiet so as not to trample over the unique story and combination of characters happening in Undertale. but I'm pretty sure all the background choices about the story that are not as important to the central themes are actually foreshadowing Deltarune. even Undyne running after you until she collapses and is going to die feels like some weird nightmare regurgitated out of Kris' mind after trying to forget Dess. having to use water to save her is interesting too... waterfall water is a healing item in Deltarune, remember. is the Underground another form of "the dark". don't forget, I'm with you in the dark, which also means the entirety of Undertale? it's gotta be. I don't know who Frisk is supposed to be but I don't know if that matters, because Asriel, Chara, Undyne, and Gerson are much more focal characters to Undertale than its main character if you're connecting it to Deltarune. I feel like Frisk might be some sort of statement that Kris believes protagonists are replaceable and you could just throw in seven or eight different people and it doesn't matter to a story built on themes and recycled memories who the protagonist is. alphys and undyne seem to have very different and opposite responses to the waterfall. the waterfall helps Undyne get back up but it just about helps alphys die. does it matter that alphys is yellow? is this telling us what yellow means? but Undyne isn't pink, she only has red accents. there actually isn't much overlap between Spamton/Jevil and Gerson that I can remember except for the freedom motif; Spamton is contrasted with Tenna, not Gerson. which is like, I see a theme of hope with Tenna and despair or suffering with Spamton. I see hope with Gerson and hope and recovery with Undyne and I see death and suffering with Alphys. which.... oh god. so Undyne is the tough one and Alphys is the quiet yellow one. they really are Susie and Noelle even though Undyne isn't pink. it's really weird that Noelle would be hinted to be associated with death and despair in Undertale while in Deltarune she seems very hopeful, she seems more hopeful than Kris as long as you don't try to mess with her mind. there is a sad but theatrically staged scene where the fans get sad that Mettaton is going away, and that's like Tenna having to go away when he doesn't want to but the Knight comes in and breaks him. I can't remember Mettaton having much to do with the yellow/pink hope/despair theme other than maybe like he has pink boots and he's not as depressed as Alphys but that's about it. Tenna wants everything back, the Knight says no. the Knight is on Spamton and Alphys Undertale's team of "the waterfall never ends". then Undyne Deltarune shows up unaware what she's getting herself into with the Knight. there is this thorough separation between the Knight as this horror entity and Undyne, both Undynes. Alphys Undertale hiding the monster in the basement and never showing it to Undyne is quite a bit like Undyne Deltarune facing the Knight, only it's out in the open. the Knight is conceptually the thing you find at the end of the waterfall — Deltarune actually says that. off the edge lies the end of the waterfall. the waterfall could help you, it could help you get back up, or you could go off the edge by getting close to it and like, become an Abstraction; this isn't Digital Circus but man are the metaphors just exactly the same within a couple of its episodes. I think Dess is another version of that same idea, that a broken mind creates a wildly distorted version of a monster, and there's simply maybe a bit of a literal angle to the metaphors with a literal edge or maybe a literal waterfall, definitely a literal Shadow Crystal and a literal Black Shard whatever those are. maybe it's like.... a Deltarune character is just a thin boundary around a section of Dark World that can actually be pierced, and then the character falls into shards of glass leaving a blob of darkness? that is a disturbing image. it reminds me a bit of the corruption creatures in Tunic that were the holes in the game cartridge that could destroy everything. but here it's not {{em\|that}} literal, Deltarune is more drawn on this abstract medium of creative potential or something but it's still possible to pierce all the way through it. I think there's something to the concept of post-structuralist themes in Deltarune, like Gerson casually tells you to erase the narrative so you can write a new one, but maybe Dess looked at the world and said, well if our world is just one big fabricated construct maybe I can destroy it by piercing through me to reach the other side where anything is possible. again kind of what Scratch did. but it didn't work quite the way she intended. the world was more material than she thought and she only successfully destroyed her body. although along with unleashing darkness she did break through the world. and maybe the Knight is gonna turn into some huge crazy world-reshaping rift in Chapter 7? god if this isn't the real game plot this is my new AU. omega Knight. that would be so cool.<br/>		{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Waterfall is retelling Dess' story / Waterfall in Undertale is secretly retelling one or more incidents in Dess' backstory / There is secret foreshadowing for Deltarune hidden in Undyne's theme songs in Undertale -> this sounds unlikely until you notice it. so, in the Ruins there is a particular theme associated with Toriel. this motif then appears again a little skewed in Undyne's theme. that's a slightly weird motif to be in there. you'd think it's maybe because of some stretched link from Toriel to Sans to Papyrus to Undyne. but it's not. because versions of the Ruins motif carry through into Battle Against a True Hero and into Gerson's theme. so what is that theme doing in the Ruins? you have to remember what Undyne does in the main story of Undertale — she tells you about how she learned to fight from Gerson. so believe it or not that motif in her theme is actually about learning from somebody older and more experienced, and that's why it's used in the Ruins as Toriel's theme. but then you look at the Waterfall theme, which is also a slower version of Undyne's theme, and in turn, a different version of the Ruins theme. funny enough, when you get into Hotland the Core has the same theme so it's a very central theme to Undertale. Snowdin is the only one that's weird — which is because it's a distantly-related version of Noelle's flashback theme that nobody would have known about until Deltarune but that totally existed before Undertale as evidenced by Gaster's theme also coming from it. I think Waterfall is more critical to understanding Deltarune than it would appear because the concept of Undyne learning from Gerson is written all over it, from the Waterfall theme to Undyne's main theme to Battle Against a True Hero. when you meet Gerson in Chapter 4 you visually see {{em\|waterfalls}} there multiple times. and the whole time they're associated with tears and by extension Shadow Crystals ("something grew"). I think Waterfall as a whole is somehow telling a story of how Dess sort of terrorized Kris but also became a mentor figure that left a huge impact. if I remember right the waterfall like, goes off the edge, and Alphys was looking down it in depression? I think that was another hint of what the waterfall means. Undertale is secretly about losing Dess. it keeps it very quiet so as not to trample over the unique story and combination of characters happening in Undertale. but I'm pretty sure all the background choices about the story that are not as important to the central themes are actually foreshadowing Deltarune. even Undyne running after you until she collapses and is going to die feels like some weird nightmare regurgitated out of Kris' mind after trying to forget Dess. having to use water to save her is interesting too... waterfall water is a healing item in Deltarune, remember. is the Underground another form of "the dark". don't forget, I'm with you in the dark, which also means the entirety of Undertale? it's gotta be. I don't know who Frisk is supposed to be but I don't know if that matters, because Asriel, Chara, Undyne, and Gerson are much more focal characters to Undertale than its main character if you're connecting it to Deltarune. I feel like Frisk might be some sort of statement that Kris believes protagonists are replaceable and you could just throw in seven or eight different people and it doesn't matter to a story built on themes and recycled memories who the protagonist is. alphys and undyne seem to have very different and opposite responses to the waterfall. the waterfall helps Undyne get back up but it just about helps alphys die. does it matter that alphys is yellow? is this telling us what yellow means? but Undyne isn't pink, she only has red accents. there actually isn't much overlap between Spamton/Jevil and Gerson that I can remember except for the freedom motif; Spamton is contrasted with Tenna, not Gerson. which is like, I see a theme of hope with Tenna and despair or suffering with Spamton. I see hope with Gerson and hope and recovery with Undyne and I see death and suffering with Alphys. which.... oh god. so Undyne is the tough one and Alphys is the quiet yellow one. they really are Susie and Noelle even though Undyne isn't pink. it's really weird that Noelle would be hinted to be associated with death and despair in Undertale while in Deltarune she seems very hopeful, she seems more hopeful than Kris as long as you don't try to mess with her mind. there is a sad but theatrically staged scene where the fans get sad that Mettaton is going away, and that's like Tenna having to go away when he doesn't want to but the Knight comes in and breaks him. I can't remember Mettaton having much to do with the yellow/pink hope/despair theme other than maybe like he has pink boots and he's not as depressed as Alphys but that's about it. Tenna wants everything back, the Knight says no. the Knight is on Spamton and Alphys Undertale's team of "the waterfall never ends". then Undyne Deltarune shows up unaware what she's getting herself into with the Knight. there is this thorough separation between the Knight as this horror entity and Undyne, both Undynes. Alphys Undertale hiding the monster in the basement and never showing it to Undyne is quite a bit like Undyne Deltarune facing the Knight, only it's out in the open. the Knight is conceptually the thing you find at the end of the waterfall — Deltarune actually says that. off the edge lies the end of the waterfall. the waterfall could help you, it could help you get back up, or you could go off the edge by getting close to it and like, become an Abstraction; this isn't Digital Circus but man are the metaphors just exactly the same within a couple of its episodes. I think Dess is another version of that same idea, that a broken mind creates a wildly distorted version of a monster, and there's simply maybe a bit of a literal angle to the metaphors with a literal edge or maybe a literal waterfall, definitely a literal Shadow Crystal and a literal Black Shard whatever those are. maybe it's like.... a Deltarune character is just a thin boundary around a section of Dark World that can actually be pierced, and then the character falls into shards of glass leaving a blob of darkness? that is a disturbing image. it reminds me a bit of the corruption creatures in Tunic that were the holes in the game cartridge that could destroy everything. but here it's not {{em\|that}} literal, Deltarune is more drawn on this abstract medium of creative potential or something but it's still possible to pierce all the way through it. I think there's something to the concept of post-structuralist themes in Deltarune, like Gerson casually tells you to erase the narrative so you can write a new one, but maybe Dess looked at the world and said, well if our world is just one big fabricated construct maybe I can destroy it by piercing through me to reach the other side where anything is possible. again kind of what Scratch did. but it didn't work quite the way she intended. the world was more material than she thought and she only successfully destroyed her body. although along with unleashing darkness she did break through the world. and maybe the Knight is gonna turn into some huge crazy world-reshaping rift in Chapter 7? god if this isn't the real game plot this is my new AU. omega Knight. that would be so cool.<br/>
	this is one of the most coherent theories I've ever come up with for {{em\|why}} suffering would make Noelle stronger, or {{em\|why}} Kris seems to be afraid of growing and completing their 'adventure' and seems to do everything to subvert it. the Shadow Crystal bosses are trying to tempt Noelle to become a fantasy black hole apparently, or maybe Kris, the Knight is casually waiting for one of their participation before ending the world and Kris is terrified		this is one of the most coherent theories I've ever come up with for {{em\|why}} suffering would make Noelle stronger, or {{em\|why}} Kris seems to be afraid of growing and completing their 'adventure' and seems to do everything to subvert it. the Shadow Crystal bosses are trying to tempt Noelle to become a fantasy black hole apparently, or maybe Kris, the Knight is casually waiting for one of their participation before ending the world and Kris is terrified

			{{li\|I=S2/UTDR/WD66\|Q=66,30\|Q2=6630}}The Knight is a ball of glass / The Knight is some kind of ball or stone that Dess skipped into the Dark Worlds and Light World to make waves — possibly a ball formed out of molten glass shards that fell away from Dess while escaping the game world / ({{9k\|RD/Q66,90}})

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Dess' Soul was put inside Kris in order to be able to control Kris

2026-05-23T04:12:31Z

Dess' Soul was put inside Kris in order to be able to control Kris

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:12, 23 May 2026
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	<ol class="hue clean field_horror">		<ol class="hue clean field_horror">

	{{li\|start=y~~\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Kris' Soul was put inside Dess for Kris to be able to puppet the Knight and act out the Prophecy {{YouTube\|SujMfaY8FG0}}~~		{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}The Knight is Dess lucid dreaming / The Roaring Knight is Dess becoming able to lucid-dream and take control of her physical form in the created world of Deltarune (their form; his form; Deltarune) -> (this was a video)

	~~{{li~~\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}The Knight is Dess lucid dreaming / The Roaring Knight is Dess becoming able to lucid-dream and take control of her physical form in the created world of Deltarune (their form; his form; Deltarune) -> (this was a video)

	{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Dess was afraid of being trapped in a closet / Dess turned her bed away from the closet because, perhaps from a younger age, she had had nightmares about being trapped in darkness {{YouTube\|xHJm9dSzKXw}}		{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Dess was afraid of being trapped in a closet / Dess turned her bed away from the closet because, perhaps from a younger age, she had had nightmares about being trapped in darkness {{YouTube\|xHJm9dSzKXw}}

	{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Dess is not whole in the sense that Kris and Susie are {{YouTube\|SujMfaY8FG0}} -> probably.		{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Dess is not whole in the sense that Kris and Susie are {{YouTube\|SujMfaY8FG0}} -> probably.

			</li></ol>

			=== Soul ===
			<ol class="hue clean field_horror">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Kris' original Soul was put inside Dess for Kris to be able to puppet the Knight and act out the Prophecy {{YouTube\|SujMfaY8FG0}}

			{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Dess' Soul was put inside Kris in order to be able to control Kris -> interesting how I have seen the theory both ways around, but I don't think people always subscribe to both of them at the same time.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Kris' Soul was put inside Dess for Kris to be able to puppet the Knight and act out the Prophecy

2026-05-23T04:08:50Z

Kris' Soul was put inside Dess for Kris to be able to puppet the Knight and act out the Prophecy

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:08, 23 May 2026
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	<ol class="hue clean field_horror">		<ol class="hue clean field_horror">

	{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}The Knight is Dess lucid dreaming / The Roaring Knight is Dess becoming able to lucid-dream and take control of her physical form in the created world of Deltarune (their form; his form; Deltarune)		{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Kris' Soul was put inside Dess for Kris to be able to puppet the Knight and act out the Prophecy {{YouTube\|SujMfaY8FG0}}

			{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}The Knight is Dess lucid dreaming / The Roaring Knight is Dess becoming able to lucid-dream and take control of her physical form in the created world of Deltarune (their form; his form; Deltarune) -> (this was a video)

	{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Dess was afraid of being trapped in a closet / Dess turned her bed away from the closet because, perhaps from a younger age, she had had nightmares about being trapped in darkness {{YouTube\|xHJm9dSzKXw}}		{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Dess was afraid of being trapped in a closet / Dess turned her bed away from the closet because, perhaps from a younger age, she had had nightmares about being trapped in darkness {{YouTube\|xHJm9dSzKXw}}

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q6912 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q69,12: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

2026-05-23T03:55:59Z

Reversedragon moved page Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q6912 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q69,12: Moving numbered Item to TTS-pronounceable title

← Older revision	Revision as of 03:55, 23 May 2026
(No difference)

Reversedragon: The Roaring Knight

2026-05-10T10:02:51Z

The Roaring Knight

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:02, 10 May 2026
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	== Related ==		== Related ==
	~~<!--~~
	<ol class="hue clean">		<ol class="hue clean">
	</li></ol~~>--~~>
			{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/UTDR/WD66\|Q=66,90\|Q2=6690}}[[E:Q6690\|The Roaring Knight]] / ({{9k\|RD/Q66,90}})

			</li></ol>

	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==

Reversedragon: special Gaster swatch

2026-05-05T12:39:01Z

special Gaster swatch

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:39, 5 May 2026
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/UTDR\|class=field_fantasy field_horror\|Q=69,12\|Q2=6912}}Dess Holiday / December Holiday		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/UTDR\|class=field_fantasy field_horror\|Q=69,12\|Q2=6912}}Dess Holiday / December Holiday

	{{li\|I=S1/UTDR/WD66\|Q=69,12\|Q2=6912}}Dess Holiday		{{li\|I=S1/UTDR/WD66\|Q=69,12\|Q2=6912}}Dess Holiday -> Dess gets the special Gaster swatch inasmuch as she may be some kind of cosmic rift entity hidden behind or within the Roaring Knight.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>
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	<ol class="hue clean field_horror">		<ol class="hue clean field_horror">

	<li ~~class~~=~~"field_fantasy" data-qid~~="12,25~~" value~~="1225~~" data-dimension="S">~~character embodying abstract concept ~~-> the prototypical example is "December Holiday" (12~~/~~25), or my fan character name "Piatya Holiday"~~ (11/5), ~~but it can be a little less specific than that. Princess Celestia (sun~~) would probably be another decent example. the rest of the MLP cast are... weird, because they're presented like they're supposed to be this and then the elements of harmony don't exactly matter to their character and they aren't really their concepts, they either have complexity or are at least about five-note characters. I half feel like Starlight counts though because she does begin at a single abstract concept: "worse Twilight".		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/Fy\|Q=12,25\|Q2=1225}}character embodying abstract concept / ({{9k\|RD/Q12,25}})

	~~</li><~~li ~~class~~=~~"field_fantasy" data-qid~~="12,24~~" value~~="1224~~" data-dimension="S">~~calendar date as leitmotif -> "{{TTS\|tts=12-25\|1225}}".		{{li\|I=S1/Fy\|Q=12,24\|Q2=1224}}calendar date as leitmotif -> "{{TTS\|tts=12-25\|1225}}".

	{{li\|I=S1/HAS\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Feuerbach and Deltarune / ({{9k\|RD/Q618-FeuerbachAndDeltarune}})		{{li\|I=S1/HAS\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Feuerbach and Deltarune / ({{9k\|RD/Q618-FeuerbachAndDeltarune}})
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	<ol class="hue clean field_horror">		<ol class="hue clean field_horror">

	{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Waterfall is retelling Dess' story / Waterfall in Undertale is secretly retelling one or more incidents in Dess' backstory / There is secret foreshadowing for Deltarune hidden in Undyne's theme songs in Undertale -> this sounds unlikely until you notice it. so, in the Ruins there is a particular theme associated with Toriel. this motif then appears again a little skewed in Undyne's theme. that's a slightly weird motif to be in there. you'd think it's maybe because of some stretched link from Toriel to Sans to Papyrus to Undyne. but it's not. because versions of the Ruins motif carry through into Battle Against a True Hero and into Gerson's theme. so what is that theme doing in the Ruins? you have to remember what Undyne does in the main story of Undertale — she tells you about how she learned to fight from Gerson. so believe it or not that motif in her theme is actually about learning from somebody older and more experienced, and that's why it's used in the Ruins as Toriel's theme. but then you look at the Waterfall theme, which is also a slower version of Undyne's theme, and in turn, a different version of the Ruins theme. funny enough, when you get into Hotland the Core has the same theme so it's a very central theme to Undertale. Snowdin is the only one that's weird — which is because it's a distantly-related version of Noelle's flashback theme that nobody would have known about until Deltarune but that totally existed before Undertale as evidenced by Gaster's theme also coming from it. I think Waterfall is more critical to understanding Deltarune than it would appear because the concept of Undyne learning from Gerson is written all over it, from the Waterfall theme to Undyne's main theme to Battle Against a True Hero. when you meet Gerson in Chapter 4 you visually see {{em\|waterfalls}} there multiple times. and the whole time they're associated with tears and by extension Shadow Crystals ("something grew"). I think Waterfall as a whole is somehow telling a story of how Dess sort of terrorized Kris but also became a mentor figure that left a huge impact. if I remember right the waterfall like, goes off the edge, and Alphys was looking down it in depression? I think that was another hint of what the waterfall means. Undertale is secretly about losing Dess. it keeps it very quiet so as not to trample over the unique story and combination of characters happening in Undertale. but I'm pretty sure all the background choices about the story that are not as important to the central themes are actually foreshadowing Deltarune. even Undyne running after you until she collapses and is going to die feels like some weird nightmare regurgitated out of Kris' mind after trying to forget Dess. having to use water to save her is interesting too... waterfall water is a healing item in Deltarune, remember. is the Underground another form of "the dark". don't forget, I'm with you in the dark, which also means the entirety of Undertale? it's gotta be. I don't know who Frisk is supposed to be but I don't know if that matters, because Asriel, Chara, Undyne, and Gerson are much more focal characters to Undertale than its main character if you're connecting it to Deltarune. I feel like Frisk might be some sort of statement that Kris believes protagonists are replaceable and you could just throw in seven or eight different people and it doesn't matter to a story built on themes and recycled memories who the protagonist is. alphys and undyne seem to have very different and opposite responses to the waterfall. the waterfall helps Undyne get back up but it just about helps alphys die. does it matter that alphys is yellow? is this telling us what yellow means? but Undyne isn't pink, she only has red accents. there actually isn't much overlap between Spamton/Jevil and Gerson that I can remember except for the freedom motif; Spamton is contrasted with Tenna, not Gerson. which is like, I see a theme of hope with Tenna and despair or suffering with Spamton. I see hope with Gerson and hope and recovery with Undyne and I see death and suffering with Alphys. which.... oh god. so Undyne is the tough one and Alphys is the quiet yellow one. they really are Susie and Noelle even though Undyne isn't pink. it's really weird that Noelle would be hinted to be associated with death and despair in Undertale while in Deltarune she seems very hopeful, she seems more hopeful than Kris as long as you don't try to mess with her mind. there is a sad but theatrically staged scene where the fans get sad that Mettaton is going away, and that's like Tenna having to go away when he doesn't want to but the Knight comes in and breaks him. I can't remember Mettaton having much to do with the yellow/pink hope/despair theme other than maybe like he has pink boots and he's not as depressed as Alphys but that's about it. Tenna wants everything back, the Knight says no. the Knight is on Spamton and Alphys Undertale's team of "the waterfall never ends". then Undyne Deltarune shows up unaware what she's getting herself into with the Knight. there is this thorough separation between the Knight as this horror entity and Undyne, both Undynes. Alphys Undertale hiding the monster in the basement and never showing it to Undyne is quite a bit like Undyne Deltarune facing the Knight, only it's out in the open. the Knight is conceptually the thing you find at the end of the waterfall — Deltarune actually says that. off the edge lies the end of the waterfall. the waterfall could help you, it could help you get back up, or you could go off the edge by getting close to it and like, become an Abstraction; this isn't Digital Circus but man are the metaphors just exactly the same within a couple of its episodes. I think Dess is another version of that same idea, that a broken mind creates a wildly distorted version of a monster, and there's simply maybe a bit of a literal angle to the metaphors with a literal edge or maybe a literal waterfall, definitely a literal Shadow Crystal and a literal Black Shard whatever those are. maybe it's like.... a Deltarune character is just a thin boundary around a section of Dark World that can actually be pierced, and then the character falls into shards of glass leaving a blob of darkness? that is a disturbing image. it reminds me a bit of the corruption creatures in Tunic that were the holes in the game cartridge that could destroy everything. but here it's not {{em\|that}} literal, Deltarune is more drawn on this abstract medium of creative potential or something but it's still possible to pierce all the way through it. I think there's something to the concept of post-structuralist themes in Deltarune, like Gerson casually tells you to erase the narrative so you can write a new one, but maybe Dess looked at the world and said, well if our world is just one big fabricated construct maybe I can destroy it by piercing through me to reach the other side where anything is possible. again kind of what Scratch did. but it didn't work quite the way she intended. the world was more material than she thought and she only successfully destroyed her body. although along with unleashing darkness she did break through the world. and maybe the Knight is gonna turn into some huge crazy world-reshaping rift in Chapter 7? god if this isn't the real game plot this is my new AU. omega Knight. that would be so cool.<br/>		{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Waterfall is retelling Dess' story / Waterfall in Undertale is secretly retelling one or more incidents in Dess' backstory / There is secret foreshadowing for Deltarune hidden in Undyne's theme songs in Undertale -> this sounds unlikely until you notice it. so, in the Ruins there is a particular theme associated with Toriel. this motif then appears again a little skewed in Undyne's theme. that's a slightly weird motif to be in there. you'd think it's maybe because of some stretched link from Toriel to Sans to Papyrus to Undyne. but it's not. because versions of the Ruins motif carry through into Battle Against a True Hero and into Gerson's theme. so what is that theme doing in the Ruins? you have to remember what Undyne does in the main story of Undertale — she tells you about how she learned to fight from Gerson. so believe it or not that motif in her theme is actually about learning from somebody older and more experienced, and that's why it's used in the Ruins as Toriel's theme. but then you look at the Waterfall theme, which is also a slower version of Undyne's theme, and in turn, a different version of the Ruins theme. funny enough, when you get into Hotland the Core has the same theme so it's a very central theme to Undertale. Snowdin is the only one that's weird — which is because it's a distantly-related version of Noelle's flashback theme that nobody would have known about until Deltarune but that totally existed before Undertale as evidenced by Gaster's theme also coming from it. I think Waterfall is more critical to understanding Deltarune than it would appear because the concept of Undyne learning from Gerson is written all over it, from the Waterfall theme to Undyne's main theme to Battle Against a True Hero. when you meet Gerson in Chapter 4 you visually see {{em\|waterfalls}} there multiple times. and the whole time they're associated with tears and by extension Shadow Crystals ("something grew"). I think Waterfall as a whole is somehow telling a story of how Dess sort of terrorized Kris but also became a mentor figure that left a huge impact. if I remember right the waterfall like, goes off the edge, and Alphys was looking down it in depression? I think that was another hint of what the waterfall means. Undertale is secretly about losing Dess. it keeps it very quiet so as not to trample over the unique story and combination of characters happening in Undertale. but I'm pretty sure all the background choices about the story that are not as important to the central themes are actually foreshadowing Deltarune. even Undyne running after you until she collapses and is going to die feels like some weird nightmare regurgitated out of Kris' mind after trying to forget Dess. having to use water to save her is interesting too... waterfall water is a healing item in Deltarune, remember. is the Underground another form of "the dark". don't forget, I'm with you in the dark, which also means the entirety of Undertale? it's gotta be. I don't know who Frisk is supposed to be but I don't know if that matters, because Asriel, Chara, Undyne, and Gerson are much more focal characters to Undertale than its main character if you're connecting it to Deltarune. I feel like Frisk might be some sort of statement that Kris believes protagonists are replaceable and you could just throw in seven or eight different people and it doesn't matter to a story built on themes and recycled memories who the protagonist is. alphys and undyne seem to have very different and opposite responses to the waterfall. the waterfall helps Undyne get back up but it just about helps alphys die. does it matter that alphys is yellow? is this telling us what yellow means? but Undyne isn't pink, she only has red accents. there actually isn't much overlap between Spamton/Jevil and Gerson that I can remember except for the freedom motif; Spamton is contrasted with Tenna, not Gerson. which is like, I see a theme of hope with Tenna and despair or suffering with Spamton. I see hope with Gerson and hope and recovery with Undyne and I see death and suffering with Alphys. which.... oh god. so Undyne is the tough one and Alphys is the quiet yellow one. they really are Susie and Noelle even though Undyne isn't pink. it's really weird that Noelle would be hinted to be associated with death and despair in Undertale while in Deltarune she seems very hopeful, she seems more hopeful than Kris as long as you don't try to mess with her mind. there is a sad but theatrically staged scene where the fans get sad that Mettaton is going away, and that's like Tenna having to go away when he doesn't want to but the Knight comes in and breaks him. I can't remember Mettaton having much to do with the yellow/pink hope/despair theme other than maybe like he has pink boots and he's not as depressed as Alphys but that's about it. Tenna wants everything back, the Knight says no. the Knight is on Spamton and Alphys Undertale's team of "the waterfall never ends". then Undyne Deltarune shows up unaware what she's getting herself into with the Knight. there is this thorough separation between the Knight as this horror entity and Undyne, both Undynes. Alphys Undertale hiding the monster in the basement and never showing it to Undyne is quite a bit like Undyne Deltarune facing the Knight, only it's out in the open. the Knight is conceptually the thing you find at the end of the waterfall — Deltarune actually says that. off the edge lies the end of the waterfall. the waterfall could help you, it could help you get back up, or you could go off the edge by getting close to it and like, become an Abstraction; this isn't Digital Circus but man are the metaphors just exactly the same within a couple of its episodes. I think Dess is another version of that same idea, that a broken mind creates a wildly distorted version of a monster, and there's simply maybe a bit of a literal angle to the metaphors with a literal edge or maybe a literal waterfall, definitely a literal Shadow Crystal and a literal Black Shard whatever those are. maybe it's like.... a Deltarune character is just a thin boundary around a section of Dark World that can actually be pierced, and then the character falls into shards of glass leaving a blob of darkness? that is a disturbing image. it reminds me a bit of the corruption creatures in Tunic that were the holes in the game cartridge that could destroy everything. but here it's not {{em\|that}} literal, Deltarune is more drawn on this abstract medium of creative potential or something but it's still possible to pierce all the way through it. I think there's something to the concept of post-structuralist themes in Deltarune, like Gerson casually tells you to erase the narrative so you can write a new one, but maybe Dess looked at the world and said, well if our world is just one big fabricated construct maybe I can destroy it by piercing through me to reach the other side where anything is possible. again kind of what Scratch did. but it didn't work quite the way she intended. the world was more material than she thought and she only successfully destroyed her body. although along with unleashing darkness she did break through the world. and maybe the Knight is gonna turn into some huge crazy world-reshaping rift in Chapter 7? god if this isn't the real game plot this is my new AU. omega Knight. that would be so cool.<br/>
	this is one of the most coherent theories I've ever come up with for {{em\|why}} suffering would make Noelle stronger, or {{em\|why}} Kris seems to be afraid of growing and completing their 'adventure' and seems to do everything to subvert it. the Shadow Crystal bosses are trying to tempt Noelle to become a fantasy black hole apparently, or maybe Kris, the Knight is casually waiting for one of their participation before ending the world and Kris is terrified		this is one of the most coherent theories I've ever come up with for {{em\|why}} suffering would make Noelle stronger, or {{em\|why}} Kris seems to be afraid of growing and completing their 'adventure' and seems to do everything to subvert it. the Shadow Crystal bosses are trying to tempt Noelle to become a fantasy black hole apparently, or maybe Kris, the Knight is casually waiting for one of their participation before ending the world and Kris is terrified

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:28, 5 July 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}that girl -> it only hit me recently that such an odd phrasing is similar to the prophecy. most people tend to assume Dess is or was a "girl" and so there hypothetically could have been two rounds of the prophecy. I also feel like there were two rounds of the prophecy but I don't think the first one was actually completed, which may have led to this one.		{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}that girl -> it only hit me recently that such an odd phrasing is similar to the prophecy. most people tend to assume Dess is or was a "girl" and so there hypothetically could have been two rounds of the prophecy. I also feel like there were two rounds of the prophecy but I don't think the first one was actually completed, which may have led to this one.

	{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=~~618~~\|Q2=~~618~~}}The girl will die {{caps\|This Holiday}} -> I think this is almost certainly what the prophecy panel said. my thought: this sentence has about three possible meanings. A) Noelle dies. B) Dess dies. C) The old version of Dess "dies" but everybody survives.		{{li\|I=S2/DFy\|Q=66,76\|Q2=6676}}The girl will die {{caps\|This Holiday}} / The missing prophecy panel says "{{caps\|The girl will die This Holiday}}" (sense) <!-- / ({{9k\|RD/Q69,12}}) --> -> I think this is almost certainly what the prophecy panel said. my thought: this sentence has about three possible meanings. A) Noelle dies. B) Dess dies. C) The old version of Dess "dies" but everybody survives.

	{{li\|I=S2/Fy/LGBT\|Q=66,47\|Q2=6647}}The eggs are a metaphor for gender -> a bit of a joke but it's worth bringing up for just a second.		{{li\|I=S2/Fy/LGBT\|Q=66,47\|Q2=6647}}The eggs are a metaphor for gender -> a bit of a joke but it's worth bringing up for just a second.