Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q87 - Revision history

Reversedragon: Applied sciences are Materialisms

2026-06-12T03:51:37Z

Applied sciences are Materialisms

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:51, 12 June 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618}}All philosophy is subjective / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science; this is to imply that if something could be philosophy and applied science at the same time that only within those conditions would philosophy actually be objective; this is to imply that philosophy starts out as a collection of subjective opinion pieces, becomes a form of Materialism, and then becomes labeled "applied science" -> you know.... this proposition is really not that bad. you have to read into it a bit but if you look at it closely enough and notice the loophole, you see it doesn't really paint a flattering portrayal of Idealism or [[User:RD/9k/Q73\|academic anarchisms]] at all, and all Materialisms inherently sift out on top of it while all Idealisms inherently sink to the bottom.		{{li\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618}}All philosophy is subjective / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science; this is to imply that if something could be philosophy and applied science at the same time that only within those conditions would philosophy actually be objective; this is to imply that philosophy starts out as a collection of subjective opinion pieces, becomes a form of Materialism, and then becomes labeled "applied science" -> you know.... this proposition is really not that bad. you have to read into it a bit but if you look at it closely enough and notice the loophole, you see it doesn't really paint a flattering portrayal of Idealism or [[User:RD/9k/Q73\|academic anarchisms]] at all, and all Materialisms inherently sift out on top of it while all Idealisms inherently sink to the bottom.

			{{li\|I=S2/STM/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4= Applied sciences are Materialisms }} / ({{9k\|RD/Q38,59}})

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: All philosophy is subjective

2026-06-12T03:48:53Z

All philosophy is subjective

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:48, 12 June 2026
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	Idealism comes up in Pokémon types, where the interactions between two Pokémon are explained after the fact using inherent characteristics (Types). Idealism comes up in Deltarune, where the element system is taken less seriously allowing for weird new elements like "mouse" and "cat" but the inherent connections between two concepts give rise to elemental pairs. Idealism shows up in Ace Attorney designs where characters have particular roles in the story and then each character's design plays up particular abstract concepts to hint at these roles (the characters having strange names that clearly mean something but only slowly unfold like miniature mysteries of their own is one of the most obvious parts of this). Idealism shows up in a lot of places in different ways.<br/>		Idealism comes up in Pokémon types, where the interactions between two Pokémon are explained after the fact using inherent characteristics (Types). Idealism comes up in Deltarune, where the element system is taken less seriously allowing for weird new elements like "mouse" and "cat" but the inherent connections between two concepts give rise to elemental pairs. Idealism shows up in Ace Attorney designs where characters have particular roles in the story and then each character's design plays up particular abstract concepts to hint at these roles (the characters having strange names that clearly mean something but only slowly unfold like miniature mysteries of their own is one of the most obvious parts of this). Idealism shows up in a lot of places in different ways.<br/>
	Idealism may be "mostly" bad in that it clouds people's understanding of real-life events, but if you only want to use it as an art technique, you can learn a lot about how to create good "EarthBound logic" by unmasking various other instances of Idealism in other works.		Idealism may be "mostly" bad in that it clouds people's understanding of real-life events, but if you only want to use it as an art technique, you can learn a lot about how to create good "EarthBound logic" by unmasking various other instances of Idealism in other works.

			</li></ol>

			== From Idealism to Materialism ==
			<ol class="hue clean terse">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618\|h4= All philosophy is subjective }} / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science -> I don't think this is very controversial. there are ways to spin this that absolutely twist me in knots (please throw all post-structuralism in the trash) and there are also ways to play it that are more reasonable.

			{{li\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618}}All philosophy is subjective / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science; this is to imply that if something could be philosophy and applied science at the same time that only within those conditions would philosophy actually be objective; this is to imply that philosophy starts out as a collection of subjective opinion pieces, becomes a form of Materialism, and then becomes labeled "applied science" -> you know.... this proposition is really not that bad. you have to read into it a bit but if you look at it closely enough and notice the loophole, you see it doesn't really paint a flattering portrayal of Idealism or [[User:RD/9k/Q73\|academic anarchisms]] at all, and all Materialisms inherently sift out on top of it while all Idealisms inherently sink to the bottom.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: "Social construct" is a social construct

2026-06-08T23:10:19Z

"Social construct" is a social construct

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:10, 8 June 2026
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	{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=87\|Q2=87\|h4= statement is not Idealist }} (sense) / not Idealism (truth value) -> exactly-opposite truth value. you could also use "Materialist" as a truth value, but sometimes due to eclectic materialisms existing, it gets complicated whether "not Idealist" and "Materialist" are fully the same thing.		{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=87\|Q2=87\|h4= statement is not Idealist }} (sense) / not Idealism (truth value) -> exactly-opposite truth value. you could also use "Materialist" as a truth value, but sometimes due to eclectic materialisms existing, it gets complicated whether "not Idealist" and "Materialist" are fully the same thing.

	</li></ol><!--		</li></ol>

			== Related ==
			<ol class="hue clean terse">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/A/ML\|tradition=ML onto A\|Q=618}}"Social construct" is a social construct / Most of the time anarchists talk about social constructs they are trying to imply that things that are undesigned or that come out of interacting elements are deliberately engineered Ideals, but because this overall way of thinking is Idealist, it is also fair to say that anarchists are not working with a model that is well checked against reality and their theory of a given "social construct" being "constructed" is equally as made up as the "social construct" is if not more {{YouTube\|Ms_ojmhI_CI}} -> sounds like a deepity until you realize what it's really saying and then your mind is blown<br/>
			this is how you get out of what I referred to in another entry as "Gerson Boom BS". you realize what Idealism is and how it obscures whatever non-Idealist relationships between things may exist

			</li></ol>
			<!--

	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==

Reversedragon: statement is Idealist (truth value)

2026-05-29T23:48:37Z

statement is Idealist (truth value)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:48, 29 May 2026
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	{{NextNineThousand\|PPPA=Idealism\|User=RD\|E=Q87\|Contents=y}}		{{NextNineThousand\|PPPA=Idealism\|User=RD\|E=Q87\|Contents=y}}
	== Main entry ==		== Main entry ==
	{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean ~~terse~~">		{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean">

	{{li\|start=y\|I=Z1/HAS/A\|Q=87\|Q2=87\|h4= [[E:Idealism\|Idealism]] }}		{{li\|start=y\|I=Z1/HAS/A\|Q=87\|Q2=87\|h4= [[E:Idealism\|Idealism]] }}
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	<ol class="hue clean terse">		<ol class="hue clean terse">

	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176}}~~abstract Ideal~~ / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176\|h4= abstract Ideal }} / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)

	{{li\|I=S0/ES\|Q=30,99\|Q2=3099}}[[E:IBE\|"I believe that everybody" statement]]		{{li\|I=S0/ES\|Q=30,99\|Q2=3099\|h4= [[E:IBE\|"I believe that everybody" statement]] }}

	{{li\|I=S2/MX\|Q=618}}"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work		{{li\|I=S2/MX\|Q=618}}"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work
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	== Idealism and element systems ==		== Idealism and element systems ==
	<ol class="hue clean ~~terse~~">		<ol class="hue clean">

	{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|ww=Q64,41}}Wendy Oldbag illustrates Idealism / Wendy Oldbag's debut is an example of Idealist reasoning ({{game\|Ace Attorney}}) -> to be perfectly fair to these games, they use Idealism mostly for window dressing rather than the core logical problems of the game; the setting eschews supernatural forces (divine or magical) having a serious effect on the story and the court cases actually are built on a perhaps-somewhat-naïve Materialism. I really can't think of a moment where Idealism undermined the story or lessened it in any way and made me mad. this tiny, narrow little slice of the arts and writing would be one of the very few cases where Idealism has a positive effect on society. that said. the ways the characters are designed provide a nice window into {{em\|what Idealism actually is}}, and can be something of a teaching moment.<br/>		{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|ww=Q64,41\|h4= Wendy Oldbag illustrates Idealism }} / Wendy Oldbag's debut is an example of Idealist reasoning ({{game\|Ace Attorney}}) / ({{9k\|RD/Q64,30}}) -> to be perfectly fair to these games, they use Idealism mostly for window dressing rather than the core logical problems of the game; the setting eschews supernatural forces (divine or magical) having a serious effect on the story and the court cases actually are built on a perhaps-somewhat-naïve Materialism. I really can't think of a moment where Idealism undermined the story or lessened it in any way and made me mad. this tiny, narrow little slice of the arts and writing would be one of the very few cases where Idealism has a positive effect on society. that said. the ways the characters are designed provide a nice window into {{em\|what Idealism actually is}}, and can be something of a teaching moment.<br/>
	Oldbag's moment of appearing is slightly surprising. she is a roadblock. there are particular central themes set up for the case — tokusatsu shows, action, epic rivalries, feudal times and their possible vague connection to the current setting, very vague connections between Edgeworth/"Mitsurugi" and the Steel Samurai — and then Ms. Oldbag suddenly shows up. but there is a buried inherent logic to why she is there. only later into the case we see that the show being a "kids' show" is important, and Ms. Oldbag has to be there as this figurative and also literal obstacle to the kids having fun. the joke lands because it is not completely obvious, but the idea comes out of a very basic contradiction between abstract concepts that are thought to be inherently opposed which then manifest in particular material ways that "make sense" — Oldbag literally running after the boy that broke in. this is what Idealism is: the use of abstract concepts to ostensibly explain material reality when something happens in material reality and you see two labeled things collide after the fact.<br/>		Oldbag's moment of appearing is slightly surprising. she is a roadblock. there are particular central themes set up for the case — tokusatsu shows, action, epic rivalries, feudal times and their possible vague connection to the current setting, very vague connections between Edgeworth/"Mitsurugi" and the Steel Samurai — and then Ms. Oldbag suddenly shows up. but there is a buried inherent logic to why she is there. only later into the case we see that the show being a "kids' show" is important, and Ms. Oldbag has to be there as this figurative and also literal obstacle to the kids having fun. the joke lands because it is not completely obvious, but the idea comes out of a very basic contradiction between abstract concepts that are thought to be inherently opposed which then manifest in particular material ways that "make sense" — Oldbag literally running after the boy that broke in. this is what Idealism is: the use of abstract concepts to ostensibly explain material reality when something happens in material reality and you see two labeled things collide after the fact.<br/>
	Idealism comes up in Pokémon types, where the interactions between two Pokémon are explained after the fact using inherent characteristics (Types). Idealism comes up in Deltarune, where the element system is taken less seriously allowing for weird new elements like "mouse" and "cat" but the inherent connections between two concepts give rise to elemental pairs. Idealism shows up in Ace Attorney designs where characters have particular roles in the story and then each character's design plays up particular abstract concepts to hint at these roles (the characters having strange names that clearly mean something but only slowly unfold like miniature mysteries of their own is one of the most obvious parts of this). Idealism shows up in a lot of places in different ways.<br/>		Idealism comes up in Pokémon types, where the interactions between two Pokémon are explained after the fact using inherent characteristics (Types). Idealism comes up in Deltarune, where the element system is taken less seriously allowing for weird new elements like "mouse" and "cat" but the inherent connections between two concepts give rise to elemental pairs. Idealism shows up in Ace Attorney designs where characters have particular roles in the story and then each character's design plays up particular abstract concepts to hint at these roles (the characters having strange names that clearly mean something but only slowly unfold like miniature mysteries of their own is one of the most obvious parts of this). Idealism shows up in a lot of places in different ways.<br/>
	Idealism may be "mostly" bad in that it clouds people's understanding of real-life events, but if you only want to use it as an art technique, you can learn a lot about how to create good "EarthBound logic" by unmasking various other instances of Idealism in other works.		Idealism may be "mostly" bad in that it clouds people's understanding of real-life events, but if you only want to use it as an art technique, you can learn a lot about how to create good "EarthBound logic" by unmasking various other instances of Idealism in other works.

			</li></ol>

			== "Idealism" as objection ==
			<ol class="hue clean">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/A\|Q=87\|Q2=87\|h4= statement is Idealist }} (sense) / Idealism (truth value) -> you can slap this truth value onto statements that are improperly characterizing a material phenomenon with an Idealist model.

			{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=87\|Q2=87\|h4= statement is not Idealist }} (sense) / not Idealism (truth value) -> exactly-opposite truth value. you could also use "Materialist" as a truth value, but sometimes due to eclectic materialisms existing, it gets complicated whether "not Idealist" and "Materialist" are fully the same thing.

	</li></ol><!--		</li></ol><!--

Reversedragon: Wendy Oldbag illustrates Idealism

2026-05-28T22:27:51Z

Wendy Oldbag illustrates Idealism

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:27, 28 May 2026
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	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

	== ~~Related~~ ==		== Basic concepts ==
	<ol class="hue clean terse">		<ol class="hue clean terse">

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	{{li\|I=S2/MX\|Q=618}}"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work		{{li\|I=S2/MX\|Q=618}}"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work

			</li></ol>

			== Idealism and element systems ==
			<ol class="hue clean terse">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/Fy\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|ww=Q64,41}}Wendy Oldbag illustrates Idealism / Wendy Oldbag's debut is an example of Idealist reasoning ({{game\|Ace Attorney}}) -> to be perfectly fair to these games, they use Idealism mostly for window dressing rather than the core logical problems of the game; the setting eschews supernatural forces (divine or magical) having a serious effect on the story and the court cases actually are built on a perhaps-somewhat-naïve Materialism. I really can't think of a moment where Idealism undermined the story or lessened it in any way and made me mad. this tiny, narrow little slice of the arts and writing would be one of the very few cases where Idealism has a positive effect on society. that said. the ways the characters are designed provide a nice window into {{em\|what Idealism actually is}}, and can be something of a teaching moment.<br/>
			Oldbag's moment of appearing is slightly surprising. she is a roadblock. there are particular central themes set up for the case — tokusatsu shows, action, epic rivalries, feudal times and their possible vague connection to the current setting, very vague connections between Edgeworth/"Mitsurugi" and the Steel Samurai — and then Ms. Oldbag suddenly shows up. but there is a buried inherent logic to why she is there. only later into the case we see that the show being a "kids' show" is important, and Ms. Oldbag has to be there as this figurative and also literal obstacle to the kids having fun. the joke lands because it is not completely obvious, but the idea comes out of a very basic contradiction between abstract concepts that are thought to be inherently opposed which then manifest in particular material ways that "make sense" — Oldbag literally running after the boy that broke in. this is what Idealism is: the use of abstract concepts to ostensibly explain material reality when something happens in material reality and you see two labeled things collide after the fact.<br/>
			Idealism comes up in Pokémon types, where the interactions between two Pokémon are explained after the fact using inherent characteristics (Types). Idealism comes up in Deltarune, where the element system is taken less seriously allowing for weird new elements like "mouse" and "cat" but the inherent connections between two concepts give rise to elemental pairs. Idealism shows up in Ace Attorney designs where characters have particular roles in the story and then each character's design plays up particular abstract concepts to hint at these roles (the characters having strange names that clearly mean something but only slowly unfold like miniature mysteries of their own is one of the most obvious parts of this). Idealism shows up in a lot of places in different ways.<br/>
			Idealism may be "mostly" bad in that it clouds people's understanding of real-life events, but if you only want to use it as an art technique, you can learn a lot about how to create good "EarthBound logic" by unmasking various other instances of Idealism in other works.

	</li></ol><!--		</li></ol><!--

Reversedragon: "Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work

2026-05-27T09:03:28Z

"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:03, 27 May 2026
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	{{li\|I=S0/ES\|Q=30,99\|Q2=3099}}[[E:IBE\|"I believe that everybody" statement]]		{{li\|I=S0/ES\|Q=30,99\|Q2=3099}}[[E:IBE\|"I believe that everybody" statement]]

			{{li\|I=S2/MX\|Q=618}}"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work

	</li></ol><!--		</li></ol><!--

Reversedragon: "I believe that everybody" statement

2026-05-27T06:18:57Z

"I believe that everybody" statement

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:18, 27 May 2026
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	== Related ==		== Related ==
	~~<!--~~
	<ol class="hue clean terse">		<ol class="hue clean terse">
	</li></ol~~>--~~><!--
			{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176}}abstract Ideal / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)

			{{li\|I=S0/ES\|Q=30,99\|Q2=3099}}[[E:IBE\|"I believe that everybody" statement]]

			</li></ol><!--

	== Wavebuilder combinations ==		== Wavebuilder combinations ==

Reversedragon: formatting

2026-05-01T06:57:54Z

formatting

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:57, 1 May 2026
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	{{NextNineThousand\|PPPA=Idealism\|User=RD\|E=Q87\|Contents=y}}		{{NextNineThousand\|PPPA=Idealism\|User=RD\|E=Q87\|Contents=y}}
	== Main entry ==		== Main entry ==
	{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean">		{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean terse">
	~~<!-- {{li\|start=y\|I=S1/MX\|Q=86\|Q2=86\|h4 = existential materialism }} --~~>

	</~~li><li class~~=~~"field_anarchy" value~~="87~~" data-dimension~~=~~"Z">~~[[E:Idealism\|Idealism]]		{{li\|start=y\|I=Z1/HAS/A\|Q=87\|Q2=87\|h4= [[E:Idealism\|Idealism]] }}

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page User:RD/9k/Q87 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q87: Moving 9k pages to Ontology talk for search purposes

2026-05-01T05:06:29Z

Reversedragon moved page User:RD/9k/Q87 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q87: Moving 9k pages to Ontology talk for search purposes

← Older revision	Revision as of 05:06, 1 May 2026
(No difference)

Reversedragon: copy markup from 9k/Q87

2026-05-01T05:06:10Z

copy markup from 9k/Q87

New page

{{NextNineThousand|PPPA=Idealism|User=RD|E=Q87|Contents=y}}
== Main entry ==
{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean">


</li><li class="field_anarchy" value="87" data-dimension="Z">[[E:Idealism|Idealism]]

</li></ol>

== Related ==
</dl>

== Ideologies or fields ==

* (none)


[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]]