Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q87 - Revision history

Reversedragon: add new background section to subpages

2026-10-28T04:48:10Z

add new background section to subpages

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:48, 28 October 2026
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	== Ideologies or fields ==		== Ideologies or fields ==

	* (none)		* (none)

	<!--== Full title for bookmarks (optional) ==		== Subpages or related scraps ==
			* [[Special:PermanentLink/47010\|background]] - Background section for Item {{QSense\|87}}, {{time\|datetime=\|October 2026}}
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			== Full title for bookmarks (optional) ==
	<pre></pre>		<pre></pre>

Reversedragon: Idealism transforms all its members into servants

2026-10-14T07:21:57Z

Idealism transforms all its members into servants

Show changes

Reversedragon: Idealism destroys imperfect people

2026-10-05T00:02:35Z

Idealism destroys imperfect people

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:02, 5 October 2026
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176\|h4= abstract Ideal }} / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176\|h4= abstract Ideal }} / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)

	{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called extremes		{{li\|I=S2/LR\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called extremes

	{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called identities		{{li\|I=S2/PT\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called identities

	{{li\|I=S1/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}mistaking goal for current reality / mistaking desire for objective reality / it is obvious that the "Lefts" in Germany have mistaken their desire, their politico-ideological attitude, for objective reality (Lenin) [https://mltoday.com/from-the-classics-lenin-on-participation-in-bourgeois-elections/] / What is historically obsolete is not already gone (sense)		{{li\|I=S1/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}mistaking goal for current reality / mistaking desire for objective reality / it is obvious that the "Lefts" in Germany have mistaken their desire, their politico-ideological attitude, for objective reality (Lenin) [https://mltoday.com/from-the-classics-lenin-on-participation-in-bourgeois-elections/] / What is historically obsolete is not already gone (sense)
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	{{li\|I=S1/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}"horses eat oats" reasoning / citing eternal principles instead of applying them to actual situations where they are or aren't appropriate / they side-stepped the issue which events put to the conflicting forces (Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1907/boycott/i.htm]<br/>		{{li\|I=S1/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}"horses eat oats" reasoning / citing eternal principles instead of applying them to actual situations where they are or aren't appropriate / they side-stepped the issue which events put to the conflicting forces (Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1907/boycott/i.htm]<br/>
	The material resolves the immaterial + Mensheviks = "horses eat oats" reasoning.		The material resolves the immaterial + Mensheviks = "horses eat oats" reasoning.

	~~{{li\|I=S0/ES\|Q=30,99\|Q2=3099\|h4= [[E:IBE\|"I believe that everybody" statement]] }}~~

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>
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	{{li\|I=S2/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Anything which is an abstract Ideal can be sold as a product to a limited number of people with enough spare money / privacy tools (generic)		{{li\|I=S2/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Anything which is an abstract Ideal can be sold as a product to a limited number of people with enough spare money / privacy tools (generic)

			</li></ol>

			== I believe that everybody ==
			<ol class="hue clean terse">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S0/ES\|Q=30,99\|Q2=3099\|h4= [[E:IBE\|"I believe that everybody" statement]] }}

			{{li\|I=S2/MX/ES\|tradition=MX thru unknown\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Idealism destroys imperfect people / Idealism destroys people who aren't perfect -> the United States' pattern of intervention in other countries, its conception of federalism and 'testing culture and resulting laws one state at a time', its conception that voting will somehow fix everything although all it can really do is sweep away and excuse misdeeds that already happened, and the relatively new phenomenon of hegemony politics all have something in common. they all start with this particular method of constructing an ideal thing that physical groups of people can make in any way that's possible but they absolutely have to create it or else be wiped away. I am really tired of that. it's everywhere, but I'm done with it. who decides what the ideals are?? it isn't you, because {{em\|you'll}} eventually be punished for having your own set of ideals that isn't just copying other people's ideals. no matter who you are. people don't create ideals on their own, they're always handed them by someone else nearly every time. so where do they actually come from?

			{{li\|I=S1/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=64,35\|Q2=6435}}Diamond Tiara did it {{9k\|RD\|Q64,35}} -> the manifestation of Idealism in fictional court cases. crimes are identified as deviations from particular islands of Ideals that are said to comprise society ("don't commit crimes" = don't violate Ideals), although in the real world, these Ideals are only imposed onto people from above and are not part of the bottom layer of social dynamics which ultimately affects all the layers above it. because of this, discrepancies appear between what people identify as the break from Ideals and what the actual structures and processes within society are that may actually have led to such events.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>
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	{{li\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618}}All philosophy is subjective / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science; this is to imply that if something could be philosophy and applied science at the same time that only within those conditions would philosophy actually be objective; this is to imply that philosophy starts out as a collection of subjective opinion pieces, becomes a form of Materialism, and then becomes labeled "applied science" -> you know.... this proposition is really not that bad. you have to read into it a bit but if you look at it closely enough and notice the loophole, you see it doesn't really paint a flattering portrayal of Idealism or [[User:RD/9k/Q73\|academic anarchisms]] at all, and all Materialisms inherently sift out on top of it while all Idealisms inherently sink to the bottom.		{{li\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618}}All philosophy is subjective / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science; this is to imply that if something could be philosophy and applied science at the same time that only within those conditions would philosophy actually be objective; this is to imply that philosophy starts out as a collection of subjective opinion pieces, becomes a form of Materialism, and then becomes labeled "applied science" -> you know.... this proposition is really not that bad. you have to read into it a bit but if you look at it closely enough and notice the loophole, you see it doesn't really paint a flattering portrayal of Idealism or [[User:RD/9k/Q73\|academic anarchisms]] at all, and all Materialisms inherently sift out on top of it while all Idealisms inherently sink to the bottom.

	{{li\|I=S2/STM/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4= Applied sciences are Materialisms }} ~~/ (~~{{9k\|RD/Q38,59}})		{{li\|I=S2/STM/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4= Applied sciences are Materialisms }} {{9k\|RD\|Q38,59}}

	{{li\|I=S2/MX\|Q=618}}"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work		{{li\|I=S2/MX\|Q=618}}"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work

Reversedragon: Anything which is an abstract Ideal can be sold as a product to a limited number of people with enough spare money

2026-10-04T02:51:00Z

Anything which is an abstract Ideal can be sold as a product to a limited number of people with enough spare money

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:51, 4 October 2026
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	<ol class="hue clean terse">		<ol class="hue clean terse">

	{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract Ideals are goals / The strength of abstract Ideals is that each one gives many possible ways for the physical people who accomplish them to accomplish them -> this one really hit me thinking about MLP:FiM, and how these really really abstract concepts like Loyalty and Honesty are made into something specific but arbitrary.		{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/MX\|tradition=MX onto Fy, MX onto LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract Ideals are goals / The strength of abstract Ideals is that each one gives many possible ways for the physical people who accomplish them to accomplish them -> this one really hit me thinking about MLP:FiM, and how these really really abstract concepts like Loyalty and Honesty are made into something specific but arbitrary.

			{{li\|I=S2/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Anything which is an abstract Ideal can be sold as a product to a limited number of people with enough spare money / privacy tools (generic)

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Abstract Ideals are goals

2026-10-03T08:58:43Z

Abstract Ideals are goals

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:58, 3 October 2026
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	{{li\|I=S1/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=618}}Democracy element -> ...that said, "democracy" would be absolutely hilarious as an element in an RPG that is like seeping into background objects the way these gross hunks of substances make up the zones in {{game\|OFF}}. we'll say it is {{em\|not}} interpreted simply as United States imagery. although i'd allow bald eagles in because it's funny. surreal fragments of angelic eagle wings and swords floating in the breeze. we'll say the conceptual space of the element includes all of North America, Europe, and Australia, and it's about {{em\|the absolutely surreal feeling}} of statements you hear people making about places like the United States. it's about creating something abstract and surreal that has nothing to do with reality as the only way to express how stupid people's statements they think are about reality actually sound.<br/>		{{li\|I=S1/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=618}}Democracy element -> ...that said, "democracy" would be absolutely hilarious as an element in an RPG that is like seeping into background objects the way these gross hunks of substances make up the zones in {{game\|OFF}}. we'll say it is {{em\|not}} interpreted simply as United States imagery. although i'd allow bald eagles in because it's funny. surreal fragments of angelic eagle wings and swords floating in the breeze. we'll say the conceptual space of the element includes all of North America, Europe, and Australia, and it's about {{em\|the absolutely surreal feeling}} of statements you hear people making about places like the United States. it's about creating something abstract and surreal that has nothing to do with reality as the only way to express how stupid people's statements they think are about reality actually sound.<br/>
	I think that like... to have this element in a setting you have to have faint mentions of {{i\|a kingdom}} and {{i\|a republic}}. it could come up in a setting that is making fun of the French Revolution and how France went through multiple attempts to form a republic but failed at it and didn't immediately succeed, thus the protagonist is disillusioned with "democracy" as an abstract element with thematic weight in the setting but it's not very contemporary and it's not based on recent news events. no, it's all about the element having its own weird rules like Democracy equals dividing things up into a lot of small pieces, or Democracy equals claiming that incompatible things are compatible and having a ball of eternal fire and ice squashed together, or Democracy equals... loads and loads of newspapers in random places. if you walk the balance of recognizable and incomprehensible right it's {{em\|very}} "EarthBound", it's very much this idea of 'I just found United States TV shows from Japan and I have no idea what's going on'. under no circumstances should the Democracy element be logical or {{em\|not}} make you ask "how does this make any sense?". it should confuse even people that somewhat understand [[E:historical materialism\|historical materialism]] and [[E:meta-Marxism\|the existence of different political philosophies as a plurality of contradictory objects]], by taking the most core abstract concepts of what people think "democracy" is totally and completely out of context.		I think that like... to have this element in a setting you have to have faint mentions of {{i\|a kingdom}} and {{i\|a republic}}. it could come up in a setting that is making fun of the French Revolution and how France went through multiple attempts to form a republic but failed at it and didn't immediately succeed, thus the protagonist is disillusioned with "democracy" as an abstract element with thematic weight in the setting but it's not very contemporary and it's not based on recent news events. no, it's all about the element having its own weird rules like Democracy equals dividing things up into a lot of small pieces, or Democracy equals claiming that incompatible things are compatible and having a ball of eternal fire and ice squashed together, or Democracy equals... loads and loads of newspapers in random places. if you walk the balance of recognizable and incomprehensible right it's {{em\|very}} "EarthBound", it's very much this idea of 'I just found United States TV shows from Japan and I have no idea what's going on'. under no circumstances should the Democracy element be logical or {{em\|not}} make you ask "how does this make any sense?". it should confuse even people that somewhat understand [[E:historical materialism\|historical materialism]] and [[E:meta-Marxism\|the existence of different political philosophies as a plurality of contradictory objects]], by taking the most core abstract concepts of what people think "democracy" is totally and completely out of context.

			</li></ol>

			== Ideals and commodities ==
			<ol class="hue clean terse">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract Ideals are goals / The strength of abstract Ideals is that each one gives many possible ways for the physical people who accomplish them to accomplish them -> this one really hit me thinking about MLP:FiM, and how these really really abstract concepts like Loyalty and Honesty are made into something specific but arbitrary.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Abstract ideals are also called identities

2026-09-11T12:21:16Z

Abstract ideals are also called identities

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:21, 11 September 2026
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176\|h4= abstract Ideal }} / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176\|h4= abstract Ideal }} / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)

			{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called extremes

			{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called identities

	{{li\|I=S1/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}mistaking goal for current reality / mistaking desire for objective reality / it is obvious that the "Lefts" in Germany have mistaken their desire, their politico-ideological attitude, for objective reality (Lenin) [https://mltoday.com/from-the-classics-lenin-on-participation-in-bourgeois-elections/] / What is historically obsolete is not already gone (sense)		{{li\|I=S1/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}mistaking goal for current reality / mistaking desire for objective reality / it is obvious that the "Lefts" in Germany have mistaken their desire, their politico-ideological attitude, for objective reality (Lenin) [https://mltoday.com/from-the-classics-lenin-on-participation-in-bourgeois-elections/] / What is historically obsolete is not already gone (sense)

Reversedragon: "horses eat oats" reasoning

2026-08-29T10:49:37Z

"horses eat oats" reasoning

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:49, 29 August 2026
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176\|h4= abstract Ideal }} / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176\|h4= abstract Ideal }} / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)

			{{li\|I=S1/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}mistaking goal for current reality / mistaking desire for objective reality / it is obvious that the "Lefts" in Germany have mistaken their desire, their politico-ideological attitude, for objective reality (Lenin) [https://mltoday.com/from-the-classics-lenin-on-participation-in-bourgeois-elections/] / What is historically obsolete is not already gone (sense)

			{{li\|I=S1/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}"horses eat oats" reasoning / citing eternal principles instead of applying them to actual situations where they are or aren't appropriate / they side-stepped the issue which events put to the conflicting forces (Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1907/boycott/i.htm]<br/>
			The material resolves the immaterial + Mensheviks = "horses eat oats" reasoning.

	{{li\|I=S0/ES\|Q=30,99\|Q2=3099\|h4= [[E:IBE\|"I believe that everybody" statement]] }}		{{li\|I=S0/ES\|Q=30,99\|Q2=3099\|h4= [[E:IBE\|"I believe that everybody" statement]] }}

	~~{{li\|I=S2/MX\|Q=618}}"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work~~

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>
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	{{li\|I=S2/STM/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4= Applied sciences are Materialisms }} / ({{9k\|RD/Q38,59}})		{{li\|I=S2/STM/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4= Applied sciences are Materialisms }} / ({{9k\|RD/Q38,59}})

			{{li\|I=S2/MX\|Q=618}}"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: hypostatization (Materialism)

2026-07-27T02:08:42Z

hypostatization (Materialism)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:08, 27 July 2026
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	Idealism comes up in Pokémon types, where the interactions between two Pokémon are explained after the fact using inherent characteristics (Types). Idealism comes up in Deltarune, where the element system is taken less seriously allowing for weird new elements like "mouse" and "cat" but the inherent connections between two concepts give rise to elemental pairs. Idealism shows up in Ace Attorney designs where characters have particular roles in the story and then each character's design plays up particular abstract concepts to hint at these roles (the characters having strange names that clearly mean something but only slowly unfold like miniature mysteries of their own is one of the most obvious parts of this). Idealism shows up in a lot of places in different ways.<br/>		Idealism comes up in Pokémon types, where the interactions between two Pokémon are explained after the fact using inherent characteristics (Types). Idealism comes up in Deltarune, where the element system is taken less seriously allowing for weird new elements like "mouse" and "cat" but the inherent connections between two concepts give rise to elemental pairs. Idealism shows up in Ace Attorney designs where characters have particular roles in the story and then each character's design plays up particular abstract concepts to hint at these roles (the characters having strange names that clearly mean something but only slowly unfold like miniature mysteries of their own is one of the most obvious parts of this). Idealism shows up in a lot of places in different ways.<br/>
	Idealism may be "mostly" bad in that it clouds people's understanding of real-life events, but if you only want to use it as an art technique, you can learn a lot about how to create good "EarthBound logic" by unmasking various other instances of Idealism in other works.		Idealism may be "mostly" bad in that it clouds people's understanding of real-life events, but if you only want to use it as an art technique, you can learn a lot about how to create good "EarthBound logic" by unmasking various other instances of Idealism in other works.

			{{li\|I=S1/HAS\|tradition=\|Q=618}}hypostasis (religion) / hypostasis (distillation of Father, Son, or Holy Spirit from [[E:Creation (Christianity)\|observed universe]]; Christianity) [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hypostasis#English] / separation of a linguistic sign into a character or god (linguistics); Death (figure of speech); Nature (figure of speech) / separation of human personality into benign alters or personality traits (psychology; generic)

			{{li\|I=S1/ES\|tradition=\|Q=618}}hypostatization (Materialism) / turning abstract Ideals into ontological objects [https://www.thephilroom.com/blog/2025/08/04/reification/] / Idealism (transforming abstract concepts into 'pataphysical entities with specific interactions with other entities; generic) -> this is a lot of fun in some contexts, like Deltarune turning "Mouse" into an element. it's not as much fun in other contexts, like people in the United States conceptualizing "democracy" as a totally abstract quality no matter how specifically it's described in the Constitution and then insisting the completely abstract quality in their mind with no definition is invincible and perfect and unquestionable and totally works.

			{{li\|I=S1/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=618}}Democracy element -> ...that said, "democracy" would be absolutely hilarious as an element in an RPG that is like seeping into background objects the way these gross hunks of substances make up the zones in {{game\|OFF}}. we'll say it is {{em\|not}} interpreted simply as United States imagery. although i'd allow bald eagles in because it's funny. surreal fragments of angelic eagle wings and swords floating in the breeze. we'll say the conceptual space of the element includes all of North America, Europe, and Australia, and it's about {{em\|the absolutely surreal feeling}} of statements you hear people making about places like the United States. it's about creating something abstract and surreal that has nothing to do with reality as the only way to express how stupid people's statements they think are about reality actually sound.<br/>
			I think that like... to have this element in a setting you have to have faint mentions of {{i\|a kingdom}} and {{i\|a republic}}. it could come up in a setting that is making fun of the French Revolution and how France went through multiple attempts to form a republic but failed at it and didn't immediately succeed, thus the protagonist is disillusioned with "democracy" as an abstract element with thematic weight in the setting but it's not very contemporary and it's not based on recent news events. no, it's all about the element having its own weird rules like Democracy equals dividing things up into a lot of small pieces, or Democracy equals claiming that incompatible things are compatible and having a ball of eternal fire and ice squashed together, or Democracy equals... loads and loads of newspapers in random places. if you walk the balance of recognizable and incomprehensible right it's {{em\|very}} "EarthBound", it's very much this idea of 'I just found United States TV shows from Japan and I have no idea what's going on'. under no circumstances should the Democracy element be logical or {{em\|not}} make you ask "how does this make any sense?". it should confuse even people that somewhat understand [[E:historical materialism\|historical materialism]] and [[E:meta-Marxism\|the existence of different political philosophies as a plurality of contradictory objects]], by taking the most core abstract concepts of what people think "democracy" is totally and completely out of context.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Applied sciences are Materialisms

2026-06-12T03:51:37Z

Applied sciences are Materialisms

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:51, 12 June 2026
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	{{li\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618}}All philosophy is subjective / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science; this is to imply that if something could be philosophy and applied science at the same time that only within those conditions would philosophy actually be objective; this is to imply that philosophy starts out as a collection of subjective opinion pieces, becomes a form of Materialism, and then becomes labeled "applied science" -> you know.... this proposition is really not that bad. you have to read into it a bit but if you look at it closely enough and notice the loophole, you see it doesn't really paint a flattering portrayal of Idealism or [[User:RD/9k/Q73\|academic anarchisms]] at all, and all Materialisms inherently sift out on top of it while all Idealisms inherently sink to the bottom.		{{li\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618}}All philosophy is subjective / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science; this is to imply that if something could be philosophy and applied science at the same time that only within those conditions would philosophy actually be objective; this is to imply that philosophy starts out as a collection of subjective opinion pieces, becomes a form of Materialism, and then becomes labeled "applied science" -> you know.... this proposition is really not that bad. you have to read into it a bit but if you look at it closely enough and notice the loophole, you see it doesn't really paint a flattering portrayal of Idealism or [[User:RD/9k/Q73\|academic anarchisms]] at all, and all Materialisms inherently sift out on top of it while all Idealisms inherently sink to the bottom.

			{{li\|I=S2/STM/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4= Applied sciences are Materialisms }} / ({{9k\|RD/Q38,59}})

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: All philosophy is subjective

2026-06-12T03:48:53Z

All philosophy is subjective

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:48, 12 June 2026
Line 25:		Line 25:
	Idealism comes up in Pokémon types, where the interactions between two Pokémon are explained after the fact using inherent characteristics (Types). Idealism comes up in Deltarune, where the element system is taken less seriously allowing for weird new elements like "mouse" and "cat" but the inherent connections between two concepts give rise to elemental pairs. Idealism shows up in Ace Attorney designs where characters have particular roles in the story and then each character's design plays up particular abstract concepts to hint at these roles (the characters having strange names that clearly mean something but only slowly unfold like miniature mysteries of their own is one of the most obvious parts of this). Idealism shows up in a lot of places in different ways.<br/>		Idealism comes up in Pokémon types, where the interactions between two Pokémon are explained after the fact using inherent characteristics (Types). Idealism comes up in Deltarune, where the element system is taken less seriously allowing for weird new elements like "mouse" and "cat" but the inherent connections between two concepts give rise to elemental pairs. Idealism shows up in Ace Attorney designs where characters have particular roles in the story and then each character's design plays up particular abstract concepts to hint at these roles (the characters having strange names that clearly mean something but only slowly unfold like miniature mysteries of their own is one of the most obvious parts of this). Idealism shows up in a lot of places in different ways.<br/>
	Idealism may be "mostly" bad in that it clouds people's understanding of real-life events, but if you only want to use it as an art technique, you can learn a lot about how to create good "EarthBound logic" by unmasking various other instances of Idealism in other works.		Idealism may be "mostly" bad in that it clouds people's understanding of real-life events, but if you only want to use it as an art technique, you can learn a lot about how to create good "EarthBound logic" by unmasking various other instances of Idealism in other works.

			</li></ol>

			== From Idealism to Materialism ==
			<ol class="hue clean terse">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618\|h4= All philosophy is subjective }} / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science -> I don't think this is very controversial. there are ways to spin this that absolutely twist me in knots (please throw all post-structuralism in the trash) and there are also ways to play it that are more reasonable.

			{{li\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618}}All philosophy is subjective / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science; this is to imply that if something could be philosophy and applied science at the same time that only within those conditions would philosophy actually be objective; this is to imply that philosophy starts out as a collection of subjective opinion pieces, becomes a form of Materialism, and then becomes labeled "applied science" -> you know.... this proposition is really not that bad. you have to read into it a bit but if you look at it closely enough and notice the loophole, you see it doesn't really paint a flattering portrayal of Idealism or [[User:RD/9k/Q73\|academic anarchisms]] at all, and all Materialisms inherently sift out on top of it while all Idealisms inherently sink to the bottom.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:02, 5 October 2026
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176\|h4= abstract Ideal }} / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176\|h4= abstract Ideal }} / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)

	{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called extremes		{{li\|I=S2/LR\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called extremes

	{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called identities		{{li\|I=S2/PT\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called identities

	{{li\|I=S1/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}mistaking goal for current reality / mistaking desire for objective reality / it is obvious that the "Lefts" in Germany have mistaken their desire, their politico-ideological attitude, for objective reality (Lenin) [https://mltoday.com/from-the-classics-lenin-on-participation-in-bourgeois-elections/] / What is historically obsolete is not already gone (sense)		{{li\|I=S1/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}mistaking goal for current reality / mistaking desire for objective reality / it is obvious that the "Lefts" in Germany have mistaken their desire, their politico-ideological attitude, for objective reality (Lenin) [https://mltoday.com/from-the-classics-lenin-on-participation-in-bourgeois-elections/] / What is historically obsolete is not already gone (sense)
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	{{li\|I=S1/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}"horses eat oats" reasoning / citing eternal principles instead of applying them to actual situations where they are or aren't appropriate / they side-stepped the issue which events put to the conflicting forces (Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1907/boycott/i.htm]<br/>		{{li\|I=S1/LR\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}"horses eat oats" reasoning / citing eternal principles instead of applying them to actual situations where they are or aren't appropriate / they side-stepped the issue which events put to the conflicting forces (Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1907/boycott/i.htm]<br/>
	The material resolves the immaterial + Mensheviks = "horses eat oats" reasoning.		The material resolves the immaterial + Mensheviks = "horses eat oats" reasoning.

	~~{{li\|I=S0/ES\|Q=30,99\|Q2=3099\|h4= [[E:IBE\|"I believe that everybody" statement]] }}~~

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>
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	{{li\|I=S2/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Anything which is an abstract Ideal can be sold as a product to a limited number of people with enough spare money / privacy tools (generic)		{{li\|I=S2/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Anything which is an abstract Ideal can be sold as a product to a limited number of people with enough spare money / privacy tools (generic)

			</li></ol>

			== I believe that everybody ==
			<ol class="hue clean terse">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S0/ES\|Q=30,99\|Q2=3099\|h4= [[E:IBE\|"I believe that everybody" statement]] }}

			{{li\|I=S2/MX/ES\|tradition=MX thru unknown\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Idealism destroys imperfect people / Idealism destroys people who aren't perfect -> the United States' pattern of intervention in other countries, its conception of federalism and 'testing culture and resulting laws one state at a time', its conception that voting will somehow fix everything although all it can really do is sweep away and excuse misdeeds that already happened, and the relatively new phenomenon of hegemony politics all have something in common. they all start with this particular method of constructing an ideal thing that physical groups of people can make in any way that's possible but they absolutely have to create it or else be wiped away. I am really tired of that. it's everywhere, but I'm done with it. who decides what the ideals are?? it isn't you, because {{em\|you'll}} eventually be punished for having your own set of ideals that isn't just copying other people's ideals. no matter who you are. people don't create ideals on their own, they're always handed them by someone else nearly every time. so where do they actually come from?

			{{li\|I=S1/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=64,35\|Q2=6435}}Diamond Tiara did it {{9k\|RD\|Q64,35}} -> the manifestation of Idealism in fictional court cases. crimes are identified as deviations from particular islands of Ideals that are said to comprise society ("don't commit crimes" = don't violate Ideals), although in the real world, these Ideals are only imposed onto people from above and are not part of the bottom layer of social dynamics which ultimately affects all the layers above it. because of this, discrepancies appear between what people identify as the break from Ideals and what the actual structures and processes within society are that may actually have led to such events.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>
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	{{li\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618}}All philosophy is subjective / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science; this is to imply that if something could be philosophy and applied science at the same time that only within those conditions would philosophy actually be objective; this is to imply that philosophy starts out as a collection of subjective opinion pieces, becomes a form of Materialism, and then becomes labeled "applied science" -> you know.... this proposition is really not that bad. you have to read into it a bit but if you look at it closely enough and notice the loophole, you see it doesn't really paint a flattering portrayal of Idealism or [[User:RD/9k/Q73\|academic anarchisms]] at all, and all Materialisms inherently sift out on top of it while all Idealisms inherently sink to the bottom.		{{li\|I=S2/ES\|tradition=ES, MX\|Q=618}}All philosophy is subjective / Because every philosophical text is an opinion piece, no philosophy is actually objective and all philosophy is subjective until it eventually turns into scientific models and applied science; this is to imply that if something could be philosophy and applied science at the same time that only within those conditions would philosophy actually be objective; this is to imply that philosophy starts out as a collection of subjective opinion pieces, becomes a form of Materialism, and then becomes labeled "applied science" -> you know.... this proposition is really not that bad. you have to read into it a bit but if you look at it closely enough and notice the loophole, you see it doesn't really paint a flattering portrayal of Idealism or [[User:RD/9k/Q73\|academic anarchisms]] at all, and all Materialisms inherently sift out on top of it while all Idealisms inherently sink to the bottom.

	{{li\|I=S2/STM/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4= Applied sciences are Materialisms }} ~~/ (~~{{9k\|RD/Q38,59}})		{{li\|I=S2/STM/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618\|h4= Applied sciences are Materialisms }} {{9k\|RD\|Q38,59}}

	{{li\|I=S2/MX\|Q=618}}"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work		{{li\|I=S2/MX\|Q=618}}"Moderation" is the moment Idealists realize Idealism doesn't work

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:21, 11 September 2026
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176\|h4= abstract Ideal }} / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|Q=176\|h4= abstract Ideal }} / abstract ideal (standard English capitalization outside philosophy)

			{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called extremes

			{{li\|I=S2/Fy\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abstract ideals are also called identities

	{{li\|I=S1/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}mistaking goal for current reality / mistaking desire for objective reality / it is obvious that the "Lefts" in Germany have mistaken their desire, their politico-ideological attitude, for objective reality (Lenin) [https://mltoday.com/from-the-classics-lenin-on-participation-in-bourgeois-elections/] / What is historically obsolete is not already gone (sense)		{{li\|I=S1/ES\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}mistaking goal for current reality / mistaking desire for objective reality / it is obvious that the "Lefts" in Germany have mistaken their desire, their politico-ideological attitude, for objective reality (Lenin) [https://mltoday.com/from-the-classics-lenin-on-participation-in-bourgeois-elections/] / What is historically obsolete is not already gone (sense)