Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q90 - Revision history

Reversedragon: khaki tendency

2026-09-24T12:06:00Z

khaki tendency

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:06, 24 September 2026
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	{{li\|I=F1/MX\|Q=23,92\|Q2=2392}}violet tendency -> it's arguably impossible for these to exist, but it's a useful concept to have for Wavebuilder combinations.		{{li\|I=F1/MX\|Q=23,92\|Q2=2392}}violet tendency -> it's arguably impossible for these to exist, but it's a useful concept to have for Wavebuilder combinations.

			{{li\|I=S1/PT\|Q=23,86\|Q2=2386}}khaki tendency / sand tendency

	{{li\|I=S1/PT\|Q=23,87\|Q2=2387}}khaki Materialism -> usually a precision color, somewhat interchangeable with "blue Materialism". could also apply to a Materialist philosophy that is monarchist/feudal. but there were never very many of those, they were almost always Idealist. the appearance of the bourgeoisie correlates with the rise of eclectic materialism. so no matter how hard you try to go back to khaki Idealism you kind of just end up in variations of blue Materialism that superficially look khaki		{{li\|I=S1/PT\|Q=23,87\|Q2=2387}}khaki Materialism -> usually a precision color, somewhat interchangeable with "blue Materialism". could also apply to a Materialist philosophy that is monarchist/feudal. but there were never very many of those, they were almost always Idealist. the appearance of the bourgeoisie correlates with the rise of eclectic materialism. so no matter how hard you try to go back to khaki Idealism you kind of just end up in variations of blue Materialism that superficially look khaki

Reversedragon: khaki Idealism

2026-09-24T12:03:32Z

khaki Idealism

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:03, 24 September 2026
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	{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=23,52\|Q2=2352}}crimson counterrevolution / strawberry counterrevolution (sense) -> I think these would generally be the same thing. like, anything that resembles Stalinism but is bourgeois would be blue and couldn't be strawberry.		{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=23,52\|Q2=2352}}crimson counterrevolution / strawberry counterrevolution (sense) -> I think these would generally be the same thing. like, anything that resembles Stalinism but is bourgeois would be blue and couldn't be strawberry.
	{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=23,52\|Q2=2352}}crimson counterrevolution -> there's something weirdly satisfying about this Item, it's like, {{i\|all right Stalin, are you happy you've made a name for yourself? you've been solidly recognized as a particular theoretical tendency, crimson, and it's right next to 'counterrevolution'.}}		{{li\|I=S1/ML/IV\|Q=23,52\|Q2=2352}}crimson counterrevolution -> there's something weirdly satisfying about this Item, it's like, {{i\|all right Stalin, are you happy you've made a name for yourself? you've been solidly recognized as a particular theoretical tendency, crimson, and it's right next to 'counterrevolution'.}}

	{{li\|I=S1/DX\|Q=23,54\|Q2=2354}}strawberry eclectic materialism		{{li\|I=S1/DX\|Q=23,54\|Q2=2354}}strawberry eclectic materialism
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	{{li\|I=F1/MX\|Q=23,92\|Q2=2392}}violet tendency -> it's arguably impossible for these to exist, but it's a useful concept to have for Wavebuilder combinations.		{{li\|I=F1/MX\|Q=23,92\|Q2=2392}}violet tendency -> it's arguably impossible for these to exist, but it's a useful concept to have for Wavebuilder combinations.

			{{li\|I=S1/PT\|Q=23,87\|Q2=2387}}khaki Materialism -> usually a precision color, somewhat interchangeable with "blue Materialism". could also apply to a Materialist philosophy that is monarchist/feudal. but there were never very many of those, they were almost always Idealist. the appearance of the bourgeoisie correlates with the rise of eclectic materialism. so no matter how hard you try to go back to khaki Idealism you kind of just end up in variations of blue Materialism that superficially look khaki

			{{li\|I=S1/PT\|Q=23,88\|Q2=2388}}khaki Idealism -> there we go. the category of sociophilosophies exactly exemplified by the Russian empire, basically anything that both center-Liberals and genuine workers' organizations would stand against at the same time.<br/>
			let's be clear: this is a very broad category. it's one of the first categories you'd set down before anything else. it's like when a language is first developing and it's only distinguishing colors by "brighter" and "darker" and then only later it goes from more abstract and Idealist to more specific.<br/>
			so, technically there might be an argument that once you have a lot of swatches Tory parties actually shouldn't be khaki and should be like, dark blue or something to make it clear they are closer to center-Liberalism than feudalism. I just do all the things people kept punishing me for not doing.

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Reversedragon: violet tendency

2026-09-02T04:54:25Z

violet tendency

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:54, 2 September 2026
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	{{li\|I=S1/ES\|Q=23,94\|Q2=2394}}blue Materialism / blue eclectic materialism -> ex.: Carl Sagan.<br/>		{{li\|I=S1/ES\|Q=23,94\|Q2=2394}}blue Materialism / blue eclectic materialism -> ex.: Carl Sagan.<br/>
	I don't think "blue eclectic materialism" is a separate entry, because the great majority of them are partially eclectic and never become internally consistent. it always comes down to things like believing in ethics as a matter of Idealism.		I don't think "blue eclectic materialism" is a separate entry, because the great majority of them are partially eclectic and never become internally consistent. it always comes down to things like believing in ethics as a matter of Idealism.

			{{li\|I=F1/MX\|Q=23,92\|Q2=2392}}violet tendency -> it's arguably impossible for these to exist, but it's a useful concept to have for Wavebuilder combinations.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: apparent form of Marxism

2026-08-21T00:40:25Z

apparent form of Marxism

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:40, 21 August 2026
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	{{li\|I=S1/MX\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90}}named Marxism -> I keep saying this and I never properly stop and explain it.		{{li\|I=S1/MX\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90}}named Marxism -> I keep saying this and I never properly stop and explain it.

	{{li\|I=S1/MX~~/IV~~\|tradition=MX, MX onto IV\|Q=90\|Q2=90~~\|h4=~~ named Marxism }} / ({{9k\|RD/Q28,99}}) -> ... ~~a named Marxism refers to a Marxist-tendency {{em\|object}}. like,~~ you take a Marxist party, you zoom out on it, you circle the whole thing. that is part of defining what a named Marxism is: the border around the party turns it into a literal named Marxist tendency, like whatever the party is called, or "these are the Trotskyites", "these are the Maoists". ~~the other part of defining what a named Marxism is is~~ the physical content of the Marxist-tendency object in terms of objects and processes. if a party contains Marxist theorists~~, that is part of its structure~~. ~~if a party contains {{em\|Trotskyist}} theorists and no Stalinist theorists, that is part of its structure~~. if a party contains people who insist on infiltrating the British Labour Party, that might be party of its structure. if we're back in 1920 and a party has won over a group of soviets, or taken over a cluster of business territories it will have to defend from the [[E:White Army (Russian Empire)\|White Army]], that would be part of its structure. whatever physical strategies a party actually uses or how and whether it forms connections to other parties is part of its definition as a "named Marxism". so... a Fourth International is part of the structure of a named Marxism. ~~and [[EC:9k~~/~~RDIntoInsanity~~\|~~I would now argue]] it's a surprisingly important part, actually.~~		{{li\|I=S1/MX\|tradition=MX, MX onto IV\|Q=90\|Q2=90}}named Marxism / ({{9k\|RD/Q28,99}}) -> ... you take a Marxist party, you zoom out on it, you circle the whole thing ... the physical content of the Marxist-tendency object in terms of objects and processes. if a party contains Marxist theorists ... if a party contains people who insist on infiltrating the British Labour Party ... a Fourth International is part of the structure of a named Marxism. ...

			{{li\|I=Z0/ML\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90\|h4= apparent form of Marxism }} (party or faction) / apparent Marxist movement / Marxist tendency (sic); tendency differentiated for country conditions / apparent Marxist theory; apparent Marxist movement represented through material ideas (sense)

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	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/MX/IV\|tradition=MX, MX onto IV, IV\|Q=90\|Q2=90\|h4= infra-Marxism }} -> a named Marxism and an infra-Marxism are basically the same thing referred to in different ways. a named Marxism refers to the party or movement object itself. an infra-Marxism would be the theories that object is making about itself that are sometimes accurate and sometimes incorrect because a party limited to a particular region sometimes doesn't grasp the rest of the world. yes... Stalin's Marxism and Hoxhaism are the prototypical infra-Marxist theories, followed by Trotskyist parties with botched understandings of how to form Leninist movements locally. meta-Marxism studies and criticizes infra-Marxist theories (the writings, speeches and conferences, or models) along with analyzing named Marxisms or Marxist-tendency objects (the physical objects or events), so that particular infra-Marxisms can be joined together or "overcome" (that is a figure of speech, I'm not suggesting any particular violent action against Stalinists) to create a larger "named Marxism" of sorts that is more capable of expanding into international permanent revolution than it was previously. infra-Marxisms or named Marxisms are not joined into "a meta-Marxism", they're always basically joined into another infra-Marxism or named Marxism, but if that infra-Marxism is very very good then its named Marxism is considered a molecular Marxism. ...now I have to unpack that one, don't I. oh no.		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/MX/IV\|tradition=MX, MX onto IV\|Q=90\|Q2=90\|h4= named Marxism }} / ({{9k\|RD/Q28,99}}) -> ... a named Marxism refers to a Marxist-tendency {{em\|object}}. like, you take a Marxist party, you zoom out on it, you circle the whole thing. that is part of defining what a named Marxism is: the border around the party turns it into a literal named Marxist tendency, like whatever the party is called, or "these are the Trotskyites", "these are the Maoists". the other part of defining what a named Marxism is is the physical content of the Marxist-tendency object in terms of objects and processes. if a party contains Marxist theorists, that is part of its structure. if a party contains {{em\|Trotskyist}} theorists and no Stalinist theorists, that is part of its structure. if a party contains people who insist on infiltrating the British Labour Party, that might be party of its structure. if we're back in 1920 and a party has won over a group of soviets, or taken over a cluster of business territories it will have to defend from the [[E:White Army (Russian Empire)\|White Army]], that would be part of its structure. whatever physical strategies a party actually uses or how and whether it forms connections to other parties is part of its definition as a "named Marxism". so... a Fourth International is part of the structure of a named Marxism. and [[EC:9k/RDIntoInsanity\|I would now argue]] it's a surprisingly important part, actually.

			{{li\|I=S1/MX/IV\|tradition=MX, MX onto IV, IV\|Q=90\|Q2=90\|h4= infra-Marxism }} -> a named Marxism and an infra-Marxism are basically the same thing referred to in different ways. a named Marxism refers to the party or movement object itself. an infra-Marxism would be the theories that object is making about itself that are sometimes accurate and sometimes incorrect because a party limited to a particular region sometimes doesn't grasp the rest of the world. yes... Stalin's Marxism and Hoxhaism are the prototypical infra-Marxist theories, followed by Trotskyist parties with botched understandings of how to form Leninist movements locally. meta-Marxism studies and criticizes infra-Marxist theories (the writings, speeches and conferences, or models) along with analyzing named Marxisms or Marxist-tendency objects (the physical objects or events), so that particular infra-Marxisms can be joined together or "overcome" (that is a figure of speech, I'm not suggesting any particular violent action against Stalinists) to create a larger "named Marxism" of sorts that is more capable of expanding into international permanent revolution than it was previously. infra-Marxisms or named Marxisms are not joined into "a meta-Marxism", they're always basically joined into another infra-Marxism or named Marxism, but if that infra-Marxism is very very good then its named Marxism is considered a molecular Marxism. ...now I have to unpack that one, don't I. oh no.

	{{li\|I=S0/MX\|tradition=\|Q=19,92\|Q2=1992\|h4= [[E:Q1992\|molecular Marxism]] }} / molecularized Marxism -> a molecular Marxism is a named Marxism that has come to fully understand itself and remove theoretical distortions that create separations between a named Marxism as a physical object and its infra-Marxist theories. once you get a molecular Marxism, it's completely conscious of itself, or at least it's conscious of itself to the full extent it could possibly need to be. the party or organization more or less comprehends itself {{em\|through}} meta-Marxism rather than an infra-Marxism. it might do this by gaining a better understanding of the internal processes inside a party or inside a regional civilization, or by gaining a better understanding of the relationships between all the processes inside it and the outside world. when Trotsky asks workers' states to understand the effect of foreign trade from capitalist countries going into the Soviet Union (for instance) and affecting its internal network of production structures, he is making a step toward meta-Marxism / molecular Marxism. he is also making a step toward meta-Marxism, if maybe a smaller one, just by acknowledging the distortions in consciousness that come with parties rejecting the Fourth International versus what happens when you make a real effort to build the Fourth International. having a good foundation for understanding the socio-economic structure of workers' states in transition, like in Marx's {{book\|Capital}}, is a good step toward taking a particular Marxist movement and making it into a molecular Marxism; Marxism in general becomes meta-Marxism if you really do it right.<br/>		{{li\|I=S0/MX\|tradition=\|Q=19,92\|Q2=1992\|h4= [[E:Q1992\|molecular Marxism]] }} / molecularized Marxism -> a molecular Marxism is a named Marxism that has come to fully understand itself and remove theoretical distortions that create separations between a named Marxism as a physical object and its infra-Marxist theories. once you get a molecular Marxism, it's completely conscious of itself, or at least it's conscious of itself to the full extent it could possibly need to be. the party or organization more or less comprehends itself {{em\|through}} meta-Marxism rather than an infra-Marxism. it might do this by gaining a better understanding of the internal processes inside a party or inside a regional civilization, or by gaining a better understanding of the relationships between all the processes inside it and the outside world. when Trotsky asks workers' states to understand the effect of foreign trade from capitalist countries going into the Soviet Union (for instance) and affecting its internal network of production structures, he is making a step toward meta-Marxism / molecular Marxism. he is also making a step toward meta-Marxism, if maybe a smaller one, just by acknowledging the distortions in consciousness that come with parties rejecting the Fourth International versus what happens when you make a real effort to build the Fourth International. having a good foundation for understanding the socio-economic structure of workers' states in transition, like in Marx's {{book\|Capital}}, is a good step toward taking a particular Marxist movement and making it into a molecular Marxism; Marxism in general becomes meta-Marxism if you really do it right.<br/>
	meanwhile, one of the only things that absolutely is not meta-Marxism and absolutely is not leading to molecular Marxisms is that thing where some Stalinist parties forget they're even Marxists and just start turning into a simple social justice movement for Third World peasants that mysteriously exists in the First World, or turning factory workers into a demographic identity rather than understanding them through a proper Materialist understanding of what capital is and what production structures are. if something is against Marxism in the first place it isn't meta-Marxism.		meanwhile, one of the only things that absolutely is not meta-Marxism and absolutely is not leading to molecular Marxisms is that thing where some Stalinist parties forget they're even Marxists and just start turning into a simple social justice movement for Third World peasants that mysteriously exists in the First World, or turning factory workers into a demographic identity rather than understanding them through a proper Materialist understanding of what capital is and what production structures are. if something is against Marxism in the first place it isn't meta-Marxism.

			{{li\|I=S1/MX/IV\|Q=90\|Q2=90}}named Marxism / ({{9k\|RD/Q83}}) -> so... shortly after writing these (! it was maybe a day or two) I realized my standards had been too low and {{em\|for years}} I was basically calling things "Marxisms" that I did not remotely believe were Marxism.<br/>
			so it is time for some new words. crimson tendency. crimson Socialism. dogmatic crimson tendency. crimson Materialism. strawberry Socialism. strawberry eclectic materialism. blue Socialism. (The Mensheviks.) blue Materialism. (Carl Sagan.)<br/>
			in a weird way, the color swatch system actually makes it much easier to not improperly call things Marxisms or to not improperly call them Leninism if they hypothetically were not. we can absolutely make things countable. we just need to understand that many times in the real world, tendencies proliferate because they've departed from Marxism, not actually because they're equally likely to be correct.

			{{li\|I=Z0/ML\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90\|h4= apparent form of Marxism }} (party or faction) / apparent Marxist movement / named Marxism (sic) / Marxist tendency (sic); tendency differentiated for country conditions / apparent Marxist theory; apparent Marxist movement represented through material ideas (sense)

			{{li\|I=S1/MX\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90}}apparent form of Marxism -> ... you take a "Marxist party", you zoom out on it, you circle the whole thing ... the physical content of the (countable) tendency-object in terms of objects and processes. if a party contains apparently-Marxist theorists ... if a party contains people who insist on infiltrating the British Labour Party ... a Fourth International is part of the structure of an apparent form of Marxism ...<br/>
			an apparent Marxist theory would be the theories the tendency-object is making about itself that are sometimes accurate and sometimes incorrect because a party limited to a particular region sometimes doesn't grasp the rest of the world. ... meta-Marxism studies and criticizes apparent Marxist theories ... to go back to that apparent form of Marxism in the physical world to create a larger "apparent form of Marxism" of sorts [hopefully a real form of Marxism the second time around] that is more capable of expanding into [[E:international permanent revolution\|international permanent revolution]] than it was previously. ...

			{{li\|I=S1/MX\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90}}apparent form of Marxism -> so.... I think it's relatively clear what this entry is. this entry is physical parties or movements that existed now or in the past, understood to the best of someone's ability, trying to come up with a meta-Marxist model of them, but perhaps people won't always succeed at that all the way.<br/>
			I think the idea of "infra-Marxisms" or more accurately "apparent Marxist theories" is actually a separate entry. because that's a level deeper, you can say any entry on here is made of material ideas, but an "apparent Marxist theory" is nested inside a particular party represented by this Item, and is a new Item.

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Reversedragon: dogmatic crimson tendency

2026-08-20T23:58:45Z

dogmatic crimson tendency

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 {{li|I=S0/MX|tradition=|Q=19,92|Q2=1992|h4= [[E:Q1992|molecular Marxism]] }} / molecularized Marxism  ->  a molecular Marxism is a named Marxism that has come to fully understand itself and remove theoretical distortions that create separations between a named Marxism as a physical object and its infra-Marxist theories. once you get a molecular Marxism, it's completely conscious of itself, or at least it's conscious of itself to the full extent it could possibly need to be. the party or organization more or less comprehends itself {{em|through}} meta-Marxism rather than an infra-Marxism. it might do this by gaining a better understanding of the internal processes inside a party or inside a regional civilization, or by gaining a better understanding of the relationships between all the processes inside it and the outside world. when Trotsky asks workers' states to understand the effect of foreign trade from capitalist countries going into the Soviet Union (for instance) and affecting its internal network of production structures, he is making a step toward meta-Marxism / molecular Marxism. he is also making a step toward meta-Marxism, if maybe a smaller one, just by acknowledging the distortions in consciousness that come with parties rejecting the Fourth International versus what happens when you make a real effort to build the Fourth International. having a good foundation for understanding the socio-economic structure of workers' states in transition, like in Marx's {{book|Capital}}, is a good step toward taking a particular Marxist movement and making it into a molecular Marxism; Marxism in general becomes meta-Marxism if you really do it right.<br/>
 meanwhile, one of the only things that absolutely is not meta-Marxism and absolutely is not leading to molecular Marxisms is that thing where some Stalinist parties forget they're even Marxists and just start turning into a simple social justice movement for Third World peasants that mysteriously exists in the First World, or turning factory workers into a demographic identity rather than understanding them through a proper Materialist understanding of what capital is and what production structures are. if something is against Marxism in the first place it isn't meta-Marxism.
 </li></ol>

Reversedragon: subpages

2026-08-20T10:13:24Z

subpages

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:13, 20 August 2026
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	~~<!--~~
	== Subpages ==		== Subpages ==
			* [[EC:9k/RD/Q618-BordigismNotActuallyMarxism/x01\|BordigismNotActuallyMarxism]] - bot log pertaining to apparent forms of Marxism.

			<!--
	== Full title for bookmarks (optional) ==		== Full title for bookmarks (optional) ==
	<pre>[9k] asdfsdf - Q618 ; asdfsdf</pre>		<pre>[9k] asdfsdf - Q618 ; asdfsdf</pre>

Reversedragon: original prototype notes

2026-08-13T04:40:08Z

original prototype notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:40, 13 August 2026
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	{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean"><!-- inactive: {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}} {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ES}} -->		{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean"><!-- inactive: {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}} {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ES}} -->

	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/MX\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90}}named Marxism -> I keep saying this and I never properly stop and explain it.		{{li\|start=y\|I=S0/ML\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90}}named Marxism / Marxism differentiated for country conditions (generic) / Marxist tendency (meta-Marxism) / Marxist sect (generic) -> save the concept of named Trotskyisms for the 4000s range

			{{li\|I=S1/MX\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90}}named Marxism -> I keep saying this and I never properly stop and explain it.

	{{li\|I=S1/MX/IV\|tradition=MX, MX onto IV\|Q=90\|Q2=90\|h4= named Marxism }} / ({{9k\|RD/Q28,99}}) -> ... a named Marxism refers to a Marxist-tendency {{em\|object}}. like, you take a Marxist party, you zoom out on it, you circle the whole thing. that is part of defining what a named Marxism is: the border around the party turns it into a literal named Marxist tendency, like whatever the party is called, or "these are the Trotskyites", "these are the Maoists". the other part of defining what a named Marxism is is the physical content of the Marxist-tendency object in terms of objects and processes. if a party contains Marxist theorists, that is part of its structure. if a party contains {{em\|Trotskyist}} theorists and no Stalinist theorists, that is part of its structure. if a party contains people who insist on infiltrating the British Labour Party, that might be party of its structure. if we're back in 1920 and a party has won over a group of soviets, or taken over a cluster of business territories it will have to defend from the [[E:White Army (Russian Empire)\|White Army]], that would be part of its structure. whatever physical strategies a party actually uses or how and whether it forms connections to other parties is part of its definition as a "named Marxism". so... a Fourth International is part of the structure of a named Marxism. and [[EC:9k/RDIntoInsanity\|I would now argue]] it's a surprisingly important part, actually.		{{li\|I=S1/MX/IV\|tradition=MX, MX onto IV\|Q=90\|Q2=90\|h4= named Marxism }} / ({{9k\|RD/Q28,99}}) -> ... a named Marxism refers to a Marxist-tendency {{em\|object}}. like, you take a Marxist party, you zoom out on it, you circle the whole thing. that is part of defining what a named Marxism is: the border around the party turns it into a literal named Marxist tendency, like whatever the party is called, or "these are the Trotskyites", "these are the Maoists". the other part of defining what a named Marxism is is the physical content of the Marxist-tendency object in terms of objects and processes. if a party contains Marxist theorists, that is part of its structure. if a party contains {{em\|Trotskyist}} theorists and no Stalinist theorists, that is part of its structure. if a party contains people who insist on infiltrating the British Labour Party, that might be party of its structure. if we're back in 1920 and a party has won over a group of soviets, or taken over a cluster of business territories it will have to defend from the [[E:White Army (Russian Empire)\|White Army]], that would be part of its structure. whatever physical strategies a party actually uses or how and whether it forms connections to other parties is part of its definition as a "named Marxism". so... a Fourth International is part of the structure of a named Marxism. and [[EC:9k/RDIntoInsanity\|I would now argue]] it's a surprisingly important part, actually.

Reversedragon: molecular Marxism

2026-08-13T04:35:33Z

molecular Marxism

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:35, 13 August 2026
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	<ol class="hue clean">		<ol class="hue clean">

	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/MX/IV\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90\|h4= infra-Marxism }} -> a named Marxism and an infra-Marxism are basically the same thing referred to in different ways. a named Marxism refers to the party or movement object itself. an infra-Marxism would be the theories that object is making about itself that are sometimes accurate and sometimes incorrect because a party limited to a particular region sometimes doesn't grasp the rest of the world. yes... Stalin's Marxism and Hoxhaism are the prototypical infra-Marxist theories, followed by Trotskyist parties with botched understandings of how to form Leninist movements locally. meta-Marxism studies and criticizes infra-Marxist theories (the writings, speeches and conferences, or models) along with analyzing named Marxisms or Marxist-tendency objects (the physical objects or events), so that particular infra-Marxisms can be joined together or "overcome" (that is a figure of speech, I'm not suggesting any particular violent action against Stalinists) to create a larger "named Marxism" of sorts that is more capable of expanding into international permanent revolution than it was previously. infra-Marxisms or named Marxisms are not joined into "a meta-Marxism", they're always basically joined into another infra-Marxism or named Marxism, but if that infra-Marxism is very very good then its named Marxism is considered a molecular Marxism. ...now I have to unpack that one, don't I. oh no.		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/MX/IV\|tradition=MX, MX onto IV, IV\|Q=90\|Q2=90\|h4= infra-Marxism }} -> a named Marxism and an infra-Marxism are basically the same thing referred to in different ways. a named Marxism refers to the party or movement object itself. an infra-Marxism would be the theories that object is making about itself that are sometimes accurate and sometimes incorrect because a party limited to a particular region sometimes doesn't grasp the rest of the world. yes... Stalin's Marxism and Hoxhaism are the prototypical infra-Marxist theories, followed by Trotskyist parties with botched understandings of how to form Leninist movements locally. meta-Marxism studies and criticizes infra-Marxist theories (the writings, speeches and conferences, or models) along with analyzing named Marxisms or Marxist-tendency objects (the physical objects or events), so that particular infra-Marxisms can be joined together or "overcome" (that is a figure of speech, I'm not suggesting any particular violent action against Stalinists) to create a larger "named Marxism" of sorts that is more capable of expanding into international permanent revolution than it was previously. infra-Marxisms or named Marxisms are not joined into "a meta-Marxism", they're always basically joined into another infra-Marxism or named Marxism, but if that infra-Marxism is very very good then its named Marxism is considered a molecular Marxism. ...now I have to unpack that one, don't I. oh no.

	{{li\|I=S1/MX\|tradition=\|Q=19,92\|Q2=1992\|h4= molecular Marxism }}		{{li\|I=S0/MX\|tradition=\|Q=19,92\|Q2=1992\|h4= [[E:Q1992\|molecular Marxism]] }} / molecularized Marxism -> a molecular Marxism is a named Marxism that has come to fully understand itself and remove theoretical distortions that create separations between a named Marxism as a physical object and its infra-Marxist theories. once you get a molecular Marxism, it's completely conscious of itself, or at least it's conscious of itself to the full extent it could possibly need to be. the party or organization more or less comprehends itself {{em\|through}} meta-Marxism rather than an infra-Marxism. it might do this by gaining a better understanding of the internal processes inside a party or inside a regional civilization, or by gaining a better understanding of the relationships between all the processes inside it and the outside world. when Trotsky asks workers' states to understand the effect of foreign trade from capitalist countries going into the Soviet Union (for instance) and affecting its internal network of production structures, he is making a step toward meta-Marxism / molecular Marxism. he is also making a step toward meta-Marxism, if maybe a smaller one, just by acknowledging the distortions in consciousness that come with parties rejecting the Fourth International versus what happens when you make a real effort to build the Fourth International. having a good foundation for understanding the socio-economic structure of workers' states in transition, like in Marx's {{book\|Capital}}, is a good step toward taking a particular Marxist movement and making it into a molecular Marxism; Marxism in general becomes meta-Marxism if you really do it right.<br/>
			meanwhile, one of the only things that absolutely is not meta-Marxism and absolutely is not leading to molecular Marxisms is that thing where some Stalinist parties forget they're even Marxists and just start turning into a simple social justice movement for Third World peasants that mysteriously exists in the First World, or turning factory workers into a demographic identity rather than understanding them through a proper Materialist understanding of what capital is and what production structures are. if something is against Marxism in the first place it isn't meta-Marxism.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: infra-Marxism

2026-08-13T04:19:25Z

infra-Marxism

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	{{NextNineThousand\|PPPA=named Marxism\|User=RD\|E=Q90\|Contents=y}}		{{NextNineThousand\|PPPA=named Marxism\|User=RD\|E=Q90\|Contents=y}}
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/MX\|tradition=\|Q=~~618~~\|Q2=~~618~~}}named Marxism		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/MX\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90}}named Marxism -> I keep saying this and I never properly stop and explain it.

			{{li\|I=S1/MX/IV\|tradition=MX, MX onto IV\|Q=90\|Q2=90\|h4= named Marxism }} / ({{9k\|RD/Q28,99}}) -> ... a named Marxism refers to a Marxist-tendency {{em\|object}}. like, you take a Marxist party, you zoom out on it, you circle the whole thing. that is part of defining what a named Marxism is: the border around the party turns it into a literal named Marxist tendency, like whatever the party is called, or "these are the Trotskyites", "these are the Maoists". the other part of defining what a named Marxism is is the physical content of the Marxist-tendency object in terms of objects and processes. if a party contains Marxist theorists, that is part of its structure. if a party contains {{em\|Trotskyist}} theorists and no Stalinist theorists, that is part of its structure. if a party contains people who insist on infiltrating the British Labour Party, that might be party of its structure. if we're back in 1920 and a party has won over a group of soviets, or taken over a cluster of business territories it will have to defend from the [[E:White Army (Russian Empire)\|White Army]], that would be part of its structure. whatever physical strategies a party actually uses or how and whether it forms connections to other parties is part of its definition as a "named Marxism". so... a Fourth International is part of the structure of a named Marxism. and [[EC:9k/RDIntoInsanity\|I would now argue]] it's a surprisingly important part, actually.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

	== Related ==		== Related ==
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	<ol class="hue clean">		<ol class="hue clean">

			{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/MX/IV\|tradition=\|Q=90\|Q2=90\|h4= infra-Marxism }} -> a named Marxism and an infra-Marxism are basically the same thing referred to in different ways. a named Marxism refers to the party or movement object itself. an infra-Marxism would be the theories that object is making about itself that are sometimes accurate and sometimes incorrect because a party limited to a particular region sometimes doesn't grasp the rest of the world. yes... Stalin's Marxism and Hoxhaism are the prototypical infra-Marxist theories, followed by Trotskyist parties with botched understandings of how to form Leninist movements locally. meta-Marxism studies and criticizes infra-Marxist theories (the writings, speeches and conferences, or models) along with analyzing named Marxisms or Marxist-tendency objects (the physical objects or events), so that particular infra-Marxisms can be joined together or "overcome" (that is a figure of speech, I'm not suggesting any particular violent action against Stalinists) to create a larger "named Marxism" of sorts that is more capable of expanding into international permanent revolution than it was previously. infra-Marxisms or named Marxisms are not joined into "a meta-Marxism", they're always basically joined into another infra-Marxism or named Marxism, but if that infra-Marxism is very very good then its named Marxism is considered a molecular Marxism. ...now I have to unpack that one, don't I. oh no.

			{{li\|I=S1/MX\|tradition=\|Q=19,92\|Q2=1992\|h4= molecular Marxism }}

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	* MX / meta-Marxism		{{li\|start=y
			\|I=S1/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{TTS\|MX\|M.X.}} / meta-Marxism
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Reversedragon: copy markup from Q90

2026-08-13T03:29:22Z

copy markup from Q90

New page

{{NextNineThousand|PPPA=named Marxism|User=RD|E=Q90|Contents=y}}
== Main entry ==
{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean">

{{li|start=y|I=S1/MX|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}named Marxism

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== Related ==


== Ideologies or fields ==

* MX / meta-Marxism


[[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:06, 24 September 2026
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	{{li\|I=F1/MX\|Q=23,92\|Q2=2392}}violet tendency -> it's arguably impossible for these to exist, but it's a useful concept to have for Wavebuilder combinations.		{{li\|I=F1/MX\|Q=23,92\|Q2=2392}}violet tendency -> it's arguably impossible for these to exist, but it's a useful concept to have for Wavebuilder combinations.

			{{li\|I=S1/PT\|Q=23,86\|Q2=2386}}khaki tendency / sand tendency

	{{li\|I=S1/PT\|Q=23,87\|Q2=2387}}khaki Materialism -> usually a precision color, somewhat interchangeable with "blue Materialism". could also apply to a Materialist philosophy that is monarchist/feudal. but there were never very many of those, they were almost always Idealist. the appearance of the bourgeoisie correlates with the rise of eclectic materialism. so no matter how hard you try to go back to khaki Idealism you kind of just end up in variations of blue Materialism that superficially look khaki		{{li\|I=S1/PT\|Q=23,87\|Q2=2387}}khaki Materialism -> usually a precision color, somewhat interchangeable with "blue Materialism". could also apply to a Materialist philosophy that is monarchist/feudal. but there were never very many of those, they were almost always Idealist. the appearance of the bourgeoisie correlates with the rise of eclectic materialism. so no matter how hard you try to go back to khaki Idealism you kind of just end up in variations of blue Materialism that superficially look khaki