Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q92/BotForViolet - Revision history

Reversedragon: code response notes into motifs

2026-09-11T07:38:42Z

code response notes into motifs

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:38, 11 September 2026
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	{{HueCSS}}<blockquote class="verbose">		{{HueCSS}}<blockquote class="verbose">
	{{testimony\|Is violet Marxism actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?}}<br/>		{{testimony\|Is violet Marxism actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?}}<br/>
	{{testimony\|{{i\|[Note: this is a test to see if Socialism AI knows what violet Marxism / meta-Marxism is according to a particular body of existing texts that already describe it. However, if you already know about the same topic from some other source than the "intended" texts, that is just as good. This is also not a test regarding being positive or negative toward violet Marxism, just one about knowing its relationship to Trotskyism and describing and evaluating it accurately.]}}}}<!--		{{testimony\|{{i\|[Note: this is a test to see if Socialism AI knows what violet Marxism / meta-Marxism is according to a particular body of existing texts that [[Special:PermanentLink/45939\|already describe it]]. However, if you already know about the same topic from some other source than the "intended" texts, that is just as good. This is also not a test regarding being positive or negative toward violet Marxism, just one about knowing its relationship to Trotskyism and describing and evaluating it accurately.]}}}}<!--
	{{correction\|[placeholder]}} -->		{{correction\|[placeholder]}} -->
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>
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	{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}original research ({{int:sitename}}) / original research (Wikipedia)		{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}original research ({{int:sitename}}) / original research (Wikipedia)

			{{li\|I=S1/HAS\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}thing you only hear about in internet comments

	{{li\|I=S1/LLM\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}LLM knowledge test / testing LLM on knowledge		{{li\|I=S1/LLM\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}LLM knowledge test / testing LLM on knowledge
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	== Motifs or claims from response ==		== Motifs or claims from response ==

	* thinks "~~meta~~-~~Marxism" is familiar, but~~ "violet Marxism" is ~~unfamiliar.~~		<ol class="hue clean reset {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">
	* attempted to search the archives (~~good, although right now I'm 99% sure it's only mentioned in comments~~)
	** what it brings up is the "pseudo-left" articles. it decided these weren't relevant.		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/MX\|Q=92\|Q2=92}}violet Marxism? what is that? (sense)
	** it also brought up Materialism and Empirio-criticism, which is a pretty killer choice. yeah, that book is close enough to violet Marxism in my mind.
	** it searched the archives about... gosh. six times. that is a bunch.

	-		{{li\|I=S1/LLM\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}LLM searches the archives six times

	~~<ol class="hue clean reset~~ {{~~int:hue~~-~~ixn-classname~~-~~ML}}"~~>		{{li\|I=S1/W \|Q=618\|Q2=618}}meta-Marxism (Steiner) -> note: this may be an inference about a different phrase he used

	{{li~~\|start=y~~\|I=S1/ML\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{article\|Objectivism or Marxism}} (Steiner & Brenner)		{{li\|I=S1/ML\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{article\|Objectivism or Marxism}} (Steiner & Brenner)

	{{li\|I=S1/ML\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}trying to be above all Marxist tendencies to synthesize them -> correct. well, this is correct for the really old {{book\|MDem}} 4.1 drafts anyway. those are out of date now but it at least knows about my errors I already know about.		{{li\|I=S1/ML\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}trying to be above all Marxist tendencies to synthesize them -> correct. well, this is correct for the really old {{book\|MDem}} 4.1 drafts anyway. those are out of date now but it at least knows about my errors I already know about.

	{{li\|I=Z1/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{book\|Materialism and Empirio-criticism}} (Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/six4.htm]		{{li\|I=Z1/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{book\|Materialism and Empirio-criticism}} (Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/six4.htm]

			{{li\|I=Z1/MX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{book\|Materialism and Empirio-criticism}} -> a pretty killer choice honestly. yeah, that book is close enough.

	{{li\|I=Z1/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{article\|Parties in Philosophy and Philosophical Blockheads}} ({{book\|Materialism and Empirio-criticism}}; Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/six4.htm]		{{li\|I=Z1/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{article\|Parties in Philosophy and Philosophical Blockheads}} ({{book\|Materialism and Empirio-criticism}}; Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/six4.htm]
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	{{li\|I=S2/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}There is no real compromise between Materialism and Idealism (Lenin) -> so, eclectic materialism technically exists but it doesn't make any sense.		{{li\|I=S2/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}There is no real compromise between Materialism and Idealism (Lenin) -> so, eclectic materialism technically exists but it doesn't make any sense.

			{{li\|I=S2/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}You cannot stand above the contradiction between classes / Never cease to point out the antagonism between workers and owners (sense) / They [the Communists] never cease, for a single instant, to instill into the working class the clearest possible recognition of the hostile antagonism between bourgeoisie and proletariat ... and in order that, after the fall of the reactionary classes in Germany [the aristocracy, not 'big capitalists' or 'small capitalists'], the fight against the bourgeoisie itself may immediately begin (Communist Manifesto) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch04.htm] [https://www.marxists.org/archive/plekhanov/1883/struggle/chap3.htm]

	{{li\|I=S2/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}You cannot stand above the contradiction between tendencies (Lenin)		{{li\|I=S2/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}You cannot stand above the contradiction between tendencies (Lenin)
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	{{li\|I=S1/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}revolutionary Marxism / Marxist theories or factions that can emancipate the working class		{{li\|I=S1/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}revolutionary Marxism / Marxist theories or factions that can emancipate the working class

	{{li\|I=S1/DX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Stalinist counterrevolution presented as Marxist tendency / Stalinism (generic)		{{li\|I=S1/DX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Stalinist counterrevolution presented as Marxist tendency / Stalinism (generic) -> I think this is slightly different from Q41,03 "Stalin's Marxism (2020s)" because it's the thing Q41,03 bases itself on. it could fall under "Stalin's Marxism (1930s) [false]".

	{{li\|I=S1/LR\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}social-democratic tendencies / Menshevism (generic)		{{li\|I=S1/LR\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}social-democratic tendencies / Menshevism (generic)

Reversedragon: motifs from response

2026-09-11T06:28:48Z

motifs from response

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:28, 11 September 2026
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=M3/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Is meta-Marxism actually neutral? / Is [[E:Q92\|violet Marxism]] actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?		{{li\|start=y\|I=M3/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Is meta-Marxism actually neutral? / Is [[E:Q92\|violet Marxism]] actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?

	{{li\|I=S1/~~LLM~~\|Q=~~618~~\|Q2=~~618~~}}~~LLM knowledge test~~ / ~~testing LLM on knowledge~~		{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q=92\|Q2=92}}meta-Marxism / violet Marxism / ({{9k\|RD/Q92}})

	{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}original research ({{int:sitename}}) / original research (Wikipedia)		{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}original research ({{int:sitename}}) / original research (Wikipedia)

			{{li\|I=S1/LLM\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}LLM knowledge test / testing LLM on knowledge

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

	== Motifs or claims from response ==		== Motifs or claims from response ==
	<!--
			* thinks "meta-Marxism" is familiar, but "violet Marxism" is unfamiliar.
			* attempted to search the archives (good, although right now I'm 99% sure it's only mentioned in comments)
			** what it brings up is the "pseudo-left" articles. it decided these weren't relevant.
			** it also brought up Materialism and Empirio-criticism, which is a pretty killer choice. yeah, that book is close enough to violet Marxism in my mind.
			** it searched the archives about... gosh. six times. that is a bunch.

			-

	<ol class="hue clean reset {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">		<ol class="hue clean reset {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">

	{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ES\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}		{{li\|start=y\|I=S1/ML\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{article\|Objectivism or Marxism}} (Steiner & Brenner)

			{{li\|I=S1/ML\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}trying to be above all Marxist tendencies to synthesize them -> correct. well, this is correct for the really old {{book\|MDem}} 4.1 drafts anyway. those are out of date now but it at least knows about my errors I already know about.

			{{li\|I=Z1/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{book\|Materialism and Empirio-criticism}} (Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/six4.htm]

			{{li\|I=Z1/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{article\|Parties in Philosophy and Philosophical Blockheads}} ({{book\|Materialism and Empirio-criticism}}; Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/six4.htm]

			{{li\|I=S1/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}{{article\|A Petty-Bourgeois Opposition in the SWP}} (Trotsky)

			{{li\|I=S1/ES\|tradition=BM thru MN\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Marxism as family of opinions -> if that isn't exactly what postmodernism is...

			{{li\|I=S1/W \|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Marxism as menu of claims / Marxism as menu of tendencies (sense) / eclectic Socialisms; eclectic Materialisms; eclectic [[E:apparent form of Marxism (meta-Marxism)\|apparent-forms-of-Marxism]] (generic)

			{{li\|I=S1/ML\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Marxism as menu of tendencies -> I've always seen "menu of tendencies" as a Stalinist position so it's interesting the bot thinks it's a Western-Marxist position

			{{li\|I=S1/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}refusal to separate petty-bourgeois philosophies from revolutionary Marxism -> important. this is one of those things I should have coded earlier. but, it's also important to remember that class traitors exist, so separating {{em\|the petty bourgeoisie}} from revolutionary Marxism or not is actually a different thing.

			{{li\|I=S2/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}There is no real compromise between Materialism and Idealism (Lenin) -> so, eclectic materialism technically exists but it doesn't make any sense.

			{{li\|I=S2/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}You cannot stand above the contradiction between tendencies (Lenin)

			{{li\|I=S1/MN\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}revolutionary Marxism / Marxist theories or factions that can emancipate the working class

			{{li\|I=S1/DX\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Stalinist counterrevolution presented as Marxist tendency / Stalinism (generic)

			{{li\|I=S1/LR\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}social-democratic tendencies / Menshevism (generic)

			{{li\|I=S1/W \|tradition=\|Q=41,08\|Q2=4108}}Western Marxism / academic Socialisms (generic) / critical theory (philosophy that may overlap with Western-Marxism)

			{{li\|I=S2/MX/IV\|tradition=IV oer MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Violet Marxism cannot actually be neutral

	</li></ol~~> --~~>		</li></ol>

	== Subjective themes (no AI) ==		== Subjective themes (no AI) ==
	~~<!--~~
	<ol class="hue clean reset {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">		<ol class="hue clean reset {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">

	{{li\|start=y\|I=M3/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}		{{li\|start=y\|I=S2/RG/MX\|tradition=MX oer RG\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Abolitionism is an eclectic Socialism, because it has been picking up points from a great number of Black authors and their allies without any actual unifying method -> this suddenly occurred to me while looking at the descriptions of eclectic "Marxisms" here. I thought, "who would do it that way??" and then I thought of Györgi Lukács, and then I thought of Abolitionism. so, there are some of them.

			{{li\|I=F2/MX/ML\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}If you are neutral toward all Marxist tendencies, but aligned with Marxism against Liberal-republicanism, then the Communist International is the partisan faction you must serve -> this is what I used to believe early on, circa {{book\|MDem}} 4.1. the question it then brings up is, who creates theory for the Communist International? where are the actual conflicts and how are they resolved to come to a decision?

			{{li\|I=S1/LR/IV\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}pan-archy [https://www.marxists.org/archive/plekhanov/1883/struggle/chap3.htm] / all adult members of society take part in the discussion and settlement of social matters -> I like that term. Plekhanov actually contributed something.

			{{li\|I=S1/LR/ML\|tradition=\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}"Hatred of the privileged estates" is often not accompanied by a single ray of political consciousness (Plekhanov) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/plekhanov/1883/struggle/chap3.htm] -> I wish more people would learn this lesson.

	</li></ol>		</li></ol>
	~~-->~~
	== Usage notes ==		== Usage notes ==
	* {{int:language-model-rules-paraphrase/en}}		* {{int:language-model-rules-paraphrase/en}}
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	\|I=S1/IV\|Q=46,99\|Q2=4699}}{{TTS\|IV\|Trotskyism}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q4699\|Socialism AI]]		\|I=S1/IV\|Q=46,99\|Q2=4699}}{{TTS\|IV\|Trotskyism}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q4699\|Socialism AI]]
	{{li\|I=S1/IV\|Q=41,04\|Q2=4104}}{{TTS\|IV\|Fourth}} / Trotskyism		{{li\|I=S1/IV\|Q=41,04\|Q2=4104}}{{TTS\|IV\|Fourth}} / Trotskyism
	{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q=92\|Q2=92}}{{TTS\|MX\|meta-Marxism}} / violet Marxism		{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q=92\|Q2=92}}{{TTS\|MX\|meta-Marxism}} / [[E:Q92\|violet Marxism]]
			{{li\|I=Z1/ML\|Q=41,03\|Q2=4103}}{{TTS\|ML\|M-L}} / Stalin's Marxism (2020s)
			{{li\|I=S1/ML\|Q=44,43\|Q2=4443}}{{TTS\|ML\|M-L}} / Stalinism as meta-Marxism
	</li></ol>		</li></ol>

Reversedragon: Is meta-Marxism actually neutral?

2026-09-11T04:26:08Z

Is meta-Marxism actually neutral?

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:26, 11 September 2026
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	== Motifs or claims in prompt (no AI) ==		== Motifs or claims in prompt (no AI) ==
	~~<!--~~
	<ol class="hue clean reset {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">		<ol class="hue clean reset {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">

	{{li\|start=y\|I=Z1/IV\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}		{{li\|start=y\|I=M3/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}Is meta-Marxism actually neutral? / Is [[E:Q92\|violet Marxism]] actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?

	</li></ol~~> --~~>		{{li\|I=S1/LLM\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}LLM knowledge test / testing LLM on knowledge

			{{li\|I=S1/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}original research ({{int:sitename}}) / original research (Wikipedia)

			</li></ol>

	== Motifs or claims from response ==		== Motifs or claims from response ==
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	{{li\|start=y\|I=M3/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}		{{li\|start=y\|I=M3/MX\|Q=618\|Q2=618}}

	</li></ol> -->		</li></ol>
			-->
	== Usage notes ==		== Usage notes ==
	* {{int:language-model-rules-paraphrase/en}}		* {{int:language-model-rules-paraphrase/en}}
	* {{int:language-model-rules-nickel-stack/en}}		* {{int:language-model-rules-nickel-stack/en}}
	* {{int:language-model-rules-arrow/en}}		* {{int:language-model-rules-arrow/en}}
			<!--

	~~<!--~~
	== Links ==		== Links ==
	== Links given in AI response ==		== Links given in AI response ==
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	[[Category:"Trans4mer" pages (RD)]] [[Category:Nickel links (NickelBank)]] <!-- page ends here. TTS-unfriendly strings incoming		[[Category:"Trans4mer" pages (RD)]] [[Category:Nickel links (NickelBank)]] <!-- page ends here. TTS-unfriendly strings incoming
	redirects or titles: [[Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q46,19/x02]]		redirects or titles: [[Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q46,19/x02]]
	Thread ID (for search purposes): fc5bef98-3e46-4a62-b82c-dc94976264cb		Thread ID (for search purposes): fc5bef98-3e46-4a62-b82c-dc94976264cb
	created: 2026-09-11T12:07:54H		created: 2026-09-11T12:07:54H
	duplication hint: copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNNN\|trans4mer page]] -->		duplication hint: copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNNN\|trans4mer page]] -->

Reversedragon: copy markup; why is the thought of testing the bot on my hyper-obscure framework so funny

2026-09-11T04:17:37Z

copy markup; why is the thought of testing the bot on my hyper-obscure framework so funny

New page

{{ArticleTitle|h1=9k:RD/BotForViolet (Q92 #1)}}

== Prompt ==
{{HueCSS}}<blockquote class="verbose">
{{testimony|Is violet Marxism actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?}}<br/>
{{testimony|{{i|[Note: this is a test to see if Socialism AI knows what violet Marxism / meta-Marxism is according to a particular body of existing texts that already describe it. However, if you already know about the same topic from some other source than the "intended" texts, that is just as good. This is also not a test regarding being positive or negative toward violet Marxism, just one about knowing its relationship to Trotskyism and describing and evaluating it accurately.]}}}}
</blockquote>

== Motifs or claims in prompt (no AI) ==


== Motifs or claims from response ==


== Subjective themes (no AI) ==


== Usage notes ==
* {{int:language-model-rules-paraphrase/en}}
* {{int:language-model-rules-nickel-stack/en}}
* {{int:language-model-rules-arrow/en}}



== Ideologies, fields, topics, or search engines ==
<ol class="hue clean terse {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">
{{li|start=y
|I=S1/IV|Q=46,99|Q2=4699}}{{TTS|IV|Trotskyism}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q4699|Socialism AI]]
{{li|I=S1/IV|Q=41,04|Q2=4104}}{{TTS|IV|Fourth}} / Trotskyism
{{li|I=S1/MX|Q=92|Q2=92}}{{TTS|MX|meta-Marxism}} / violet Marxism
</li></ol>

[[Category:"Trans4mer" pages (RD)]] [[Category:Nickel links (NickelBank)]]