Research:MDem/4.4r/3556 peanut-butter - Revision history

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page Philosophical Research:Molecular Democracy/4.4r/3556 peanut-butter to Philosophical Research:MDem/4.4r/3556 peanut-butter: Abbreviating long subpage to shorter path

2025-05-01T05:58:01Z

Reversedragon moved page Philosophical Research:Molecular Democracy/4.4r/3556 peanut-butter to Philosophical Research:MDem/4.4r/3556 peanut-butter: Abbreviating long subpage to shorter path

← Older revision	Revision as of 05:58, 1 May 2025
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	<div ~~style~~="~~white~~-~~space~~: ~~pre~~-~~wrap;"~~>Liberal economic theories always assume businesses do not have ideology, but this is a fundamentally wrong assumption		--><div class="bop top date">
			<h3><time datetime="2025-01-02T01:34:49Z">1-02</time></h3>
			<div>Liberal economic theories always assume businesses do not have ideology, but this is a fundamentally wrong assumption
	mike lindel sells pillows. pillows do not seem to have anything to do with anything. but every dollar collected selling pillows goes to the purposes of mike lindel's particular ideology. it goes to the upkeep of his household and allowing the household to freely have whatever particular ideology it does or does not have. it may go into campaigns for Tory parties. it may go into local churches with questionable beliefs. it may go into other businesses that promote the same ideology mike lindel and his preferred candidates subscribe to. the act of earning money at a business territory is the act of gaining decision-making power to strengthen other groups of people who subscribe to the same ideology and in turn to forge ongoing connections between each of these ideologically-connected groups of people.		mike lindel sells pillows. pillows do not seem to have anything to do with anything. but every dollar collected selling pillows goes to the purposes of mike lindel's particular ideology. it goes to the upkeep of his household and allowing the household to freely have whatever particular ideology it does or does not have. it may go into campaigns for Tory parties. it may go into local churches with questionable beliefs. it may go into other businesses that promote the same ideology mike lindel and his preferred candidates subscribe to. the act of earning money at a business territory is the act of gaining decision-making power to strengthen other groups of people who subscribe to the same ideology and in turn to forge ongoing connections between each of these ideologically-connected groups of people.

	there is a very important implication to this: ideology exists before Property exists. if ideology can exist before class territories, and class territories are the most typical or simple route for generating The State, then ideology can exist before particular times The State is generated. this is not to say that ideology is created before every single instance of generating The State — only ~~_in~~ some particular ~~instances_~~. nonetheless, this can be a somewhat shocking realization for Marxists. if one subscribes to a version of Marxism which begins at Hyper-Materialism, in which essentially nobody can begin to form a theory of how states or economies function before incidentally having begun the act of building or perpetuating them, it might almost seem strange and backwards to suggest that ideology is capable of taking on a life of its own and puppeting a state. the distinction here is that while we have discovered a situation where ideology has outrun ~~_a_~~ state, it is still not the case that thought has outrun being. we have simply looked in the wrong place to discover where thought and being are. if we simply zoom in closer, and look at social graphs as the layer of being and ideology as something generated by social graphs, we will see that the traditional model of thought after being makes sense once again. individuals assemble into social graphs based on their needs and circumstances. individuals in social graphs need to cooperate on particular goals. social graphs begin generating ideologies to explain why the individuals decided to cooperate and how they cooperate, as well as what future ways in which they could cooperate. ideology is like the thoughts and mental projections of a graph of people trying to become aware of itself. the shared thoughts of each group, much like the thoughts of an individual, can contain any number of errors, inaccuracies, or baseless speculations. nonetheless, each group of people lumbers through reality with whatever understanding it may possess, operating on its particular group ideology as if it were an accurate map of reality. as groups undergo a second digestion of their own observations and interpretations of reality, they then attempt to ~~_realize_~~ speculated possibilities within their ideology onto the material world in order to construct real-world versions of their particular mental model of the future.		there is a very important implication to this: ideology exists before Property exists. if ideology can exist before class territories, and class territories are the most typical or simple route for generating The State, then ideology can exist before particular times The State is generated. this is not to say that ideology is created before every single instance of generating The State — only <em>in some particular instances</em>. nonetheless, this can be a somewhat shocking realization for Marxists. if one subscribes to a version of Marxism which begins at Hyper-Materialism, in which essentially nobody can begin to form a theory of how states or economies function before incidentally having begun the act of building or perpetuating them, it might almost seem strange and backwards to suggest that ideology is capable of taking on a life of its own and puppeting a state. the distinction here is that while we have discovered a situation where ideology has outrun <em>a</em> state, it is still not the case that thought has outrun being. we have simply looked in the wrong place to discover where thought and being are. if we simply zoom in closer, and look at social graphs as the layer of being and ideology as something generated by social graphs, we will see that the traditional model of thought after being makes sense once again. individuals assemble into social graphs based on their needs and circumstances. individuals in social graphs need to cooperate on particular goals. social graphs begin generating ideologies to explain why the individuals decided to cooperate and how they cooperate, as well as what future ways in which they could cooperate. ideology is like the thoughts and mental projections of a graph of people trying to become aware of itself. the shared thoughts of each group, much like the thoughts of an individual, can contain any number of errors, inaccuracies, or baseless speculations. nonetheless, each group of people lumbers through reality with whatever understanding it may possess, operating on its particular group ideology as if it were an accurate map of reality. as groups undergo a second digestion of their own observations and interpretations of reality, they then attempt to <dfn>realize</dfn> speculated possibilities within their ideology onto the material world in order to construct real-world versions of their particular mental model of the future.

	the mere group of people, or ~~_Social System_~~, comprehends the world through suffusing itself with ideological content and becoming a ~~_Social~~-Philosophical ~~System_~~, which in turn considers future possibilities for itself and the surrounding world and attempts to influence and reconstruct its surrounding reality in the image of these possible futures to become a ~~_Social~~-Philosophical-Material ~~System_~~.		the mere group of people, or <dfn>Social System</dfn>, comprehends the world through suffusing itself with ideological content and becoming a <dfn>Social-Philosophical System</dfn>, which in turn considers future possibilities for itself and the surrounding world and attempts to influence and reconstruct its surrounding reality in the image of these possible futures to become a <dfn>Social-Philosophical-Material System</dfn>.

	Althusser's model of ideological state apparatuses (ISAs) probably has it backwards.		Althusser's model of ideological state apparatuses (ISAs) probably has it backwards.
	ISAs are basic elements of society that each generate The State, rather than some external The State planting ISAs in society. when multiple Social-Philosophical Systems joined together gain power through exploiting Property structures and formal government, they join many small States into one big State that happens to favor the small States.		ISAs are basic elements of society that each generate The State, rather than some external The State planting ISAs in society. when multiple Social-Philosophical Systems joined together gain power through exploiting Property structures and formal government, they join many small States into one big State that happens to favor the small States.
	</div>		</div></div>

	== "You got Trotskyism in my Stalin Thought!" "No, you got Stalin Thought in my Trotskyism!" ==		== "You got Trotskyism in my Stalin Thought!" "No, you got Stalin Thought in my Trotskyism!" ==

	<div ~~style~~="~~white~~-~~space~~: ~~pre~~-~~wrap;"~~>when we understand Social-Philosophical-Material Systems,		<div class="bop top">
			<h3><time datetime="2025-01-02T01:34:49Z">1-02</time></h3>
			<div>when we understand Social-Philosophical-Material Systems,
	we begin to realize that any instance of "reaction" or "wrecking" is simply an instance of taking a large established Social-Philosophical-Material System and constructing a different new Social-Philosophical System inside it		we begin to realize that any instance of "reaction" or "wrecking" is simply an instance of taking a large established Social-Philosophical-Material System and constructing a different new Social-Philosophical System inside it

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	any particular group of Trotskyites coming together to resist the Soviet government is a group of people with a shared interpretation of the world, just as a constellation of reactionary businesses around a pillow company is a Social-Philosophical System. inasumch as it has the ability to gain any material power to generate Property structures or armies, any particular Social-Philosophical System has the ability to generate a State.		any particular group of Trotskyites coming together to resist the Soviet government is a group of people with a shared interpretation of the world, just as a constellation of reactionary businesses around a pillow company is a Social-Philosophical System. inasumch as it has the ability to gain any material power to generate Property structures or armies, any particular Social-Philosophical System has the ability to generate a State.
	the Trotskyite conspiracy attempting to assassinate members of the Soviet government is an assertion of the Trotskyite State and its ability to enforce Trotskyite laws and penalties.		the Trotskyite conspiracy attempting to assassinate members of the Soviet government is an assertion of the Trotskyite State and its ability to enforce Trotskyite laws and penalties.
	</div>		</div></div>

	~~------~~

	<div ~~style~~="~~white~~-~~space~~: ~~pre~~-~~wrap;"~~>if the Tea Party conspiracy wasn't justified to spontaneously assert Tea Party laws over the country, then how can it be that Trotsky was?		<div class="bop">
	if the Trotskyite conspiracy ~~_was_~~ justified to break open the country, then how can we be entirely sure that the Tea Party wasn't?		<h3><time datetime="2025-01-02T05:05:50Z">1-02</time></h3>
			<div>if the Tea Party conspiracy wasn't justified to spontaneously assert Tea Party laws over the country, then how can it be that Trotsky was?
			if the Trotskyite conspiracy <em>was</em> justified to break open the country, then how can we be entirely sure that the Tea Party wasn't?

	if the Trotskyite conspiracy ~~_wasn~~'t_ justified to break open the Soviet Union, how can we evaluate the legitimacy or illegitimacy of Stalin Thought? if everything must be done within a system rather than from outside it, the system becomes unable to evaluate itself.		if the Trotskyite conspiracy <em>wasn't</em> justified to break open the Soviet Union, how can we evaluate the legitimacy or illegitimacy of Stalin Thought? if everything must be done within a system rather than from outside it, the system becomes unable to evaluate itself.
	yet sometimes wreckers are simply wrong. how do we know the difference? how can we be sure we know the difference?		yet sometimes wreckers are simply wrong. how do we know the difference? how can we be sure we know the difference?

	we can't just answer every single question with "morality, constitution, common sense, prison".		we can't just answer every single question with "morality, constitution, common sense, prison".
	</div>		</div></div>

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try out bop footer template

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	~~<pre>~~		{{Template:BopFooter\|2025-01-02T01:34:49Z\|peanut-butter\|v4-4_3556_peanut-butter\|v4.4 scraps/ pillows are not ideologically neutral}}
	:~~: cr.~~ 2025-01-02T01:34:49Z
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	~~:: t.~~ peanut-butter
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 any particular group of Trotskyites coming together to resist the Soviet government is a group of people with a shared interpretation of the world, just as a constellation of reactionary businesses around a pillow company is a Social-Philosophical System. inasumch as it has the ability to gain any material power to generate Property structures or armies, any particular Social-Philosophical System has the ability to generate a State.
 the Trotskyite conspiracy attempting to assassinate members of the Soviet government is an assertion of the Trotskyite State and its ability to enforce Trotskyite laws and penalties.
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	the mere group of people, or _Social System_, comprehends the world through suffusing itself with ideological content and becoming a _Social-Philosophical System_, which in turn considers future possibilities for itself and the surrounding world and attempts to influence and reconstruct its surrounding reality in the image of these possible futures to become a _Social-Philosophical-Material System_.		the mere group of people, or _Social System_, comprehends the world through suffusing itself with ideological content and becoming a _Social-Philosophical System_, which in turn considers future possibilities for itself and the surrounding world and attempts to influence and reconstruct its surrounding reality in the image of these possible futures to become a _Social-Philosophical-Material System_.

			Althusser's model of ideological state apparatuses (ISAs) probably has it backwards.
			ISAs are basic elements of society that each generate The State, rather than some external The State planting ISAs in society. when multiple Social-Philosophical Systems joined together gain power through exploiting Property structures and formal government, they join many small States into one big State that happens to favor the small States.
			</div>

	~~Althusser's model of ideological state apparatuses is probably wrong.~~		== "You got Trotskyism in my Stalin Thought!" "No, you got Stalin Thought in my Trotskyism!" ==

	~~ISAs are basic elements of society that generate The State~~		<div style="white-space: pre-wrap;">when we understand Social-Philosophical-Material Systems,
	</div>		we begin to realize that any instance of "reaction" or "wrecking" is simply an instance of taking a large established Social-Philosophical-Material System and constructing a different new Social-Philosophical System inside it

	~~== "You got Trotskyism~~ in my Stalin Thought!" "No, ~~you got Stalin Thought in my Trotskyism!" ==~~		the Russian revolution can be conceptualized as a Social-Philosophical System of Bolshevism which extended itself across the country and began realizing itself into a Social-Philosophical-Material System of Bolshevism.
			although mostly inaccurate, what Trotsky says is not entirely false. it is actually true that the internal structure of the Soviet Union changed, to the point it might be fairly said that it changed from one possible Material System of Bolshevism to another possible Material System of Bolshevism. it may even be fair to say that the new Material System of Bolshevism specifically owed itself to Stalin followers and their efforts at realizing their own particular Stalin Thought. the major error made by Trotsky is in never explaining what was actually wrong with the Material System of Stalin Thought nor attempting to properly explain the "correct" Material System of Trotskyism. Trotsky attributes the problem to deliberate conspiracies and bad actors, while there are many mundane explanations for what happened.

	~~<div style="white~~-~~space: pre~~-~~wrap;">~~		any particular group of Trotskyites coming together to resist the Soviet government is a group of people with a shared interpretation of the world, just as a constellation of reactionary businesses around a pillow company is a Social-Philosophical System. inasumch as it has the ability to gain any material power to generate Property structures or armies, any particular Social-Philosophical System has the ability to generate a State.
			the Trotskyite conspiracy attempting to assassinate members of the Soviet government is an assertion of the Trotskyite State and its ability to enforce Trotskyite laws and penalties.
	</div>		</div>

Reversedragon: bop scrap experiment

2025-01-02T03:56:02Z

bop scrap experiment

New page

<div style="white-space: pre-wrap;">Liberal economic theories always assume businesses do not have ideology, but this is a fundamentally wrong assumption
mike lindel sells pillows. pillows do not seem to have anything to do with anything. but every dollar collected selling pillows goes to the purposes of mike lindel's particular ideology. it goes to the upkeep of his household and allowing the household to freely have whatever particular ideology it does or does not have. it may go into campaigns for Tory parties. it may go into local churches with questionable beliefs. it may go into other businesses that promote the same ideology mike lindel and his preferred candidates subscribe to. the act of earning money at a business territory is the act of gaining decision-making power to strengthen other groups of people who subscribe to the same ideology and in turn to forge ongoing connections between each of these ideologically-connected groups of people.

there is a very important implication to this: ideology exists before Property exists. if ideology can exist before class territories, and class territories are the most typical or simple route for generating The State, then ideology can exist before particular times The State is generated. this is not to say that ideology is created before every single instance of generating The State — only _in some particular instances_. nonetheless, this can be a somewhat shocking realization for Marxists. if one subscribes to a version of Marxism which begins at Hyper-Materialism, in which essentially nobody can begin to form a theory of how states or economies function before incidentally having begun the act of building or perpetuating them, it might almost seem strange and backwards to suggest that ideology is capable of taking on a life of its own and puppeting a state. the distinction here is that while we have discovered a situation where ideology has outrun _a_ state, it is still not the case that thought has outrun being. we have simply looked in the wrong place to discover where thought and being are. if we simply zoom in closer, and look at social graphs as the layer of being and ideology as something generated by social graphs, we will see that the traditional model of thought after being makes sense once again. individuals assemble into social graphs based on their needs and circumstances. individuals in social graphs need to cooperate on particular goals. social graphs begin generating ideologies to explain why the individuals decided to cooperate and how they cooperate, as well as what future ways in which they could cooperate. ideology is like the thoughts and mental projections of a graph of people trying to become aware of itself. the shared thoughts of each group, much like the thoughts of an individual, can contain any number of errors, inaccuracies, or baseless speculations. nonetheless, each group of people lumbers through reality with whatever understanding it may possess, operating on its particular group ideology as if it were an accurate map of reality. as groups undergo a second digestion of their own observations and interpretations of reality, they then attempt to _realize_ speculated possibilities within their ideology onto the material world in order to construct real-world versions of their particular mental model of the future.

the mere group of people, or _Social System_, comprehends the world through suffusing itself with ideological content and becoming a _Social-Philosophical System_, which in turn considers future possibilities for itself and the surrounding world and attempts to influence and reconstruct its surrounding reality in the image of these possible futures to become a _Social-Philosophical-Material System_.

Althusser's model of ideological state apparatuses is probably wrong.

ISAs are basic elements of society that generate The State
</div>

== "You got Trotskyism in my Stalin Thought!" "No, you got Stalin Thought in my Trotskyism!" ==

<div style="white-space: pre-wrap;">
</div>

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<pre>
:: cr. 2025-01-02T01:34:49Z
; 1735781689
:: t. peanut-butter
:: t. v4-4_3556_peanut-butter
</pre>

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