User:RD/9k/Q618-AntiJakeTheory/method423 - Revision history

Reversedragon: retire this scrap as it's been integrated into its main 9k page

2026-04-24T01:39:50Z

retire this scrap as it's been integrated into its main 9k page

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:39, 24 April 2026
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	~~you know what<br/>~~		#redirect[[User:RD/9k/Q618-AntiJakeTheory]]
	~~one video topic that would actually help a lot of people in the United States would be a video tearing apart {{thingamabob\|~~[~~redacted]}}'s strategy for getting a Marxist movement. the more I've tried to compare it to real life events the more it has really felt off to me.<br~~/>
	~~this is the jist of what he says:<br~~/>
	~~(this is all from memory, so I could have missed some things, or I could be giving you a summary that's about a year or two out of date after he changed it)~~

	* United States people need to form a "mass movement"
	* it's more important to get into organizations than for the organizations to be good, with some exceptions for organizations that are truly terrible
	* the United States is mostly composed of proletariat; people need to become conscious of being the proletariat
	** [as far as I can tell this is factually incorrect, it's almost the other way around where the country is mostly composed of bourgeoisie and non-proletarians]
	* minorities represent the interests of the proletarian masses
	** [this would be true {{em\|in the historical Soviet Union}}, or if Mao is talking about minority Chinese cultures and languages, but if nearly nobody is the proletariat then it can't be true]
	* the United States can bring together a competent left by campaigning for Social-Democracy
	** [I think there is a bit of evidence this is false, because all our "mass movements" we're supposed to enter are {{em\|anarchism}}, and everyone is currently complaining that Social-Democratic programs are actually much too little to become a suitable "high bar that won't be met". in terms of high bars that would push the country forward what everyone truly wants looks more like, fucking, putting Black people in charge of Louisiana and Alabama or 2 to 4 specific states administered as their own separate union-republic and driving out all White people who are determined to be racist cops (not the rest) from the union republic so only a party Black people initially created to run the union republic can appoint cops. or something. a Black union republic defined solely through lack of White supremacists. I'm spitballing. "abolish the police" has been a big talking point while "Medicare for all" has been too depressing for anyone to get behind in a world where there's nothing to unite people strongly enough to successfully defend social housing or trans health care or access to abortion. it'd take something a little crazy like re-~~dividing the United States to create a progressive nation to actually get people fired up.]~~
	* he talks about Israel as "the only issue anyone can participate in" but never stops to consider the concept of it being the single mass movement that is to unite everybody into a Left.
	** [as far as I can tell, people getting fired for speaking against Israel is just about the only thing there is that a wide swath of people all recognize as a threat to them, that could bring people together who weren't previously involved into a movement, and absolutely everyone could strike over.]
	* the Overton Window doesn't exist
	** [yes but no, it exists in that Hegelian processes kind of exist where ideas contained in groups of people defeat each other. and that's how Communism was so thoroughly destroyed, by brutally eradicating the people that supported it. important detail lost]
	* Trotskyism in the historical Soviet Union is obviously incorrect because of {{em\|what classes}} people were
	** [again, true in the Soviet Union, but not an easy thing to say in the United States because the whole 'Left' is going to be bourgeoisie if the whole country is; it's more possible Trotskyists are flat out your allies in that environment and you'll face huge consequences for treating them with prejudice as opposed to, say, genuinely exposing them as liars on history or proving that their model of Leninism is unworkable. I know how Trotskyists roll, they believe they're the only legitimate Communist party of the United States and every anticommunist faction also kind of believes it, to the comical result of the whole of anticommunism kind of being right sometimes when CPUSA and Gramscians and anarchists put out really terrible models of things and the Trotskyists put out analyses on race and gender etc that are actually not crazy. I think what I'm saying is that although Trotskyism is one of the worse versions of Marxism anarchism and critical-theory are doing a phenomenal job at being so wrong they make Trotskyism look good.]

	~~------~~

	there was a dumb comment on {{thingamabob\|[... irrelevant]}} which was like "Hasan" "Mamdani" "purity testing!!" that was trying to act like a lack of good options is truly the fault of people not "Just Getting Organized" with the DSAs and Mamdanis, and not the fault of imperialism actually destroying the good options everywhere actively<br/>
	~~... challenge {{thingamabob\|[redacted~~]~~}}'s strategy. because it's creating people like that.~~

Reversedragon: purity testing

2026-04-23T20:27:07Z

purity testing

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:27, 23 April 2026
Line 1:		Line 1:
	~~<pre>~~you know what		you know what<br/>
	one video topic that would actually help a lot of people in the United States would be a video tearing apart [redacted]'s strategy for getting a Marxist movement. the more I've tried to compare it to real life events the more it has really felt off to me.		one video topic that would actually help a lot of people in the United States would be a video tearing apart {{thingamabob\|[redacted]}}'s strategy for getting a Marxist movement. the more I've tried to compare it to real life events the more it has really felt off to me.<br/>
	this is the jist of what he says:		this is the jist of what he says:<br/>
	(this is all from memory, so I could have missed some things, or I could be giving you a summary that's about a year or two out of date after he changed it)		(this is all from memory, so I could have missed some things, or I could be giving you a summary that's about a year or two out of date after he changed it)

	* United States people need to form a "mass movement"		* United States people need to form a "mass movement"
	* it's more important to get into organizations than for the organizations to be good, with some exceptions for organizations that are truly terrible		* it's more important to get into organizations than for the organizations to be good, with some exceptions for organizations that are truly terrible
	* the United States is mostly composed of proletariat; people need to become conscious of being the proletariat [as far as I can tell this is factually incorrect, it's almost the other way around where the country is mostly composed of bourgeoisie and non-proletarians]		* the United States is mostly composed of proletariat; people need to become conscious of being the proletariat
	* minorities represent the interests of the proletarian masses [this would be true ~~_in~~ the historical Soviet ~~Union_~~ , or if Mao is talking about minority Chinese cultures and languages, but if nearly nobody is the proletariat then it can't be true]		** [as far as I can tell this is factually incorrect, it's almost the other way around where the country is mostly composed of bourgeoisie and non-proletarians]
	* the United States can bring together a competent left by campaigning for Social-Democracy [I think there is a bit of evidence this is false, because all our "mass movements" we're supposed to enter are ~~_anarchism_~~ , and everyone is currently complaining that Social-Democratic programs are actually much too little to become a suitable "high bar that won't be met". in terms of high bars that would push the country forward what everyone truly wants looks more like, fucking, putting Black people in charge of Louisiana and Alabama or 2 to 4 specific states administered as their own separate union-republic and driving out all White people who are determined to be racist cops (not the rest) from the union republic so only a party Black people initially created to run the union republic can appoint cops. or something. a Black union republic defined solely through lack of White supremacists. I'm spitballing. "abolish the police" has been a big talking point while "Medicare for all" has been too depressing for anyone to get behind in a world where there's nothing to unite people strongly enough to successfully defend social housing or trans health care or access to abortion. it'd take something a little crazy like re-dividing the United States to create a progressive nation to actually get people fired up.]		* minorities represent the interests of the proletarian masses
	* he talks about Israel as "the only issue anyone can participate in" but never stops to consider the concept of it being the single mass movement that is to unite everybody into a Left. [as far as I can tell, people getting fired for speaking against Israel is just about the only thing there is that a wide swath of people all recognize as a threat to them, that could bring people together who weren't previously involved into a movement, and absolutely everyone could strike over.]		** [this would be true {{em\|in the historical Soviet Union}}, or if Mao is talking about minority Chinese cultures and languages, but if nearly nobody is the proletariat then it can't be true]
			* the United States can bring together a competent left by campaigning for Social-Democracy
			** [I think there is a bit of evidence this is false, because all our "mass movements" we're supposed to enter are {{em\|anarchism}}, and everyone is currently complaining that Social-Democratic programs are actually much too little to become a suitable "high bar that won't be met". in terms of high bars that would push the country forward what everyone truly wants looks more like, fucking, putting Black people in charge of Louisiana and Alabama or 2 to 4 specific states administered as their own separate union-republic and driving out all White people who are determined to be racist cops (not the rest) from the union republic so only a party Black people initially created to run the union republic can appoint cops. or something. a Black union republic defined solely through lack of White supremacists. I'm spitballing. "abolish the police" has been a big talking point while "Medicare for all" has been too depressing for anyone to get behind in a world where there's nothing to unite people strongly enough to successfully defend social housing or trans health care or access to abortion. it'd take something a little crazy like re-dividing the United States to create a progressive nation to actually get people fired up.]
			* he talks about Israel as "the only issue anyone can participate in" but never stops to consider the concept of it being the single mass movement that is to unite everybody into a Left.
			** [as far as I can tell, people getting fired for speaking against Israel is just about the only thing there is that a wide swath of people all recognize as a threat to them, that could bring people together who weren't previously involved into a movement, and absolutely everyone could strike over.]
			* the Overton Window doesn't exist
			** [yes but no, it exists in that Hegelian processes kind of exist where ideas contained in groups of people defeat each other. and that's how Communism was so thoroughly destroyed, by brutally eradicating the people that supported it. important detail lost]
			* Trotskyism in the historical Soviet Union is obviously incorrect because of {{em\|what classes}} people were
			** [again, true in the Soviet Union, but not an easy thing to say in the United States because the whole 'Left' is going to be bourgeoisie if the whole country is; it's more possible Trotskyists are flat out your allies in that environment and you'll face huge consequences for treating them with prejudice as opposed to, say, genuinely exposing them as liars on history or proving that their model of Leninism is unworkable. I know how Trotskyists roll, they believe they're the only legitimate Communist party of the United States and every anticommunist faction also kind of believes it, to the comical result of the whole of anticommunism kind of being right sometimes when CPUSA and Gramscians and anarchists put out really terrible models of things and the Trotskyists put out analyses on race and gender etc that are actually not crazy. I think what I'm saying is that although Trotskyism is one of the worse versions of Marxism anarchism and critical-theory are doing a phenomenal job at being so wrong they make Trotskyism look good.]

	* the Overton Window doesn't exist [~~yes but no, it exists in that Hegelian processes kind of exist where ideas contained in groups of people defeat each other~~. ~~and that's how Communism was so thoroughly destroyed, by brutally eradicating the people that supported it~~. ~~important detail lost~~]		------
	* Trotskyism in the historical Soviet Union is obviously incorrect because of _what classes_ people were [again, true in the Soviet Union, but not an easy thing to say in the United States because the whole 'Left' is going to be bourgeoisie if the whole country is; it's more possible Trotskyists are flat out your allies in that ~~environment and you'll face huge consequences for treating them with prejudice as opposed~~ to~~, say, genuinely exposing them as liars on history or proving that their model~~ of ~~Leninism~~ is ~~unworkable. I know how Trotskyists roll, they believe they're~~ the ~~only legitimate Communist party~~ of the ~~United States~~ and ~~every anticommunist faction also kind of believes it~~, to the ~~comical result of the whole of anticommunism kind of being right sometimes when CPUSA and Gramscians and anarchists put out really terrible models~~ of ~~things and the Trotskyists put out analyses on race and gender etc that are~~ actually ~~not crazy. I think what I'm saying is that although Trotskyism is one of~~ the ~~worse versions of Marxism anarchism and critical-theory are doing a phenomenal job at being so wrong they make Trotskyism look~~ good.]</~~pre~~>
			there was a dumb comment on {{thingamabob\|[... irrelevant]}} which was like "Hasan" "Mamdani" "purity testing!!" that was trying to act like a lack of good options is truly the fault of people not "Just Getting Organized" with the DSAs and Mamdanis, and not the fault of imperialism actually destroying the good options everywhere actively<br/>
			... challenge {{thingamabob\|[redacted]}}'s strategy. because it's creating people like that.

Reversedragon: scrap created approximately now

2026-04-23T01:46:18Z

scrap created approximately now

New page

<pre>you know what
one video topic that would actually help a lot of people in the United States would be a video tearing apart [redacted]'s strategy for getting a Marxist movement. the more I've tried to compare it to real life events the more it has really felt off to me.
this is the jist of what he says:
(this is all from memory, so I could have missed some things, or I could be giving you a summary that's about a year or two out of date after he changed it)

* United States people need to form a "mass movement"
* it's more important to get into organizations than for the organizations to be good, with some exceptions for organizations that are truly terrible
* the United States is mostly composed of proletariat; people need to become conscious of being the proletariat [as far as I can tell this is factually incorrect, it's almost the other way around where the country is mostly composed of bourgeoisie and non-proletarians]
* minorities represent the interests of the proletarian masses [this would be true _in the historical Soviet Union_ , or if Mao is talking about minority Chinese cultures and languages, but if nearly nobody is the proletariat then it can't be true]
* the United States can bring together a competent left by campaigning for Social-Democracy [I think there is a bit of evidence this is false, because all our "mass movements" we're supposed to enter are _anarchism_ , and everyone is currently complaining that Social-Democratic programs are actually much too little to become a suitable "high bar that won't be met". in terms of high bars that would push the country forward what everyone truly wants looks more like, fucking, putting Black people in charge of Louisiana and Alabama or 2 to 4 specific states administered as their own separate union-republic and driving out all White people who are determined to be racist cops (not the rest) from the union republic so only a party Black people initially created to run the union republic can appoint cops. or something. a Black union republic defined solely through lack of White supremacists. I'm spitballing. "abolish the police" has been a big talking point while "Medicare for all" has been too depressing for anyone to get behind in a world where there's nothing to unite people strongly enough to successfully defend social housing or trans health care or access to abortion. it'd take something a little crazy like re-dividing the United States to create a progressive nation to actually get people fired up.]
* he talks about Israel as "the only issue anyone can participate in" but never stops to consider the concept of it being the single mass movement that is to unite everybody into a Left. [as far as I can tell, people getting fired for speaking against Israel is just about the only thing there is that a wide swath of people all recognize as a threat to them, that could bring people together who weren't previously involved into a movement, and absolutely everyone could strike over.]

* the Overton Window doesn't exist [yes but no, it exists in that Hegelian processes kind of exist where ideas contained in groups of people defeat each other. and that's how Communism was so thoroughly destroyed, by brutally eradicating the people that supported it. important detail lost]
* Trotskyism in the historical Soviet Union is obviously incorrect because of _what classes_ people were [again, true in the Soviet Union, but not an easy thing to say in the United States because the whole 'Left' is going to be bourgeoisie if the whole country is; it's more possible Trotskyists are flat out your allies in that environment and you'll face huge consequences for treating them with prejudice as opposed to, say, genuinely exposing them as liars on history or proving that their model of Leninism is unworkable. I know how Trotskyists roll, they believe they're the only legitimate Communist party of the United States and every anticommunist faction also kind of believes it, to the comical result of the whole of anticommunism kind of being right sometimes when CPUSA and Gramscians and anarchists put out really terrible models of things and the Trotskyists put out analyses on race and gender etc that are actually not crazy. I think what I'm saying is that although Trotskyism is one of the worse versions of Marxism anarchism and critical-theory are doing a phenomenal job at being so wrong they make Trotskyism look good.]</pre>