User:Reversedragon/UTDR/pointed-tail/v1 - Revision history

Reversedragon: Noelle is the most powerful character in Deltarune

2025-11-14T07:41:44Z

Noelle is the most powerful character in Deltarune

@@ Line 487: / Line 487: @@
 even Gaster is capable of creating real heroes but he just isn't allowed to enable anyone breaking up their relationships to become the hero; being a frighteningly powerful darkness god is neutral but you're not supposed to get in the way of people solving things through forming healthy relationships.
 so Sans using Gaster doors is just fine. he can watch over Kris and even let the Protector go back in as long as it's only to keep Kris alive and not to perpetuate the prophecy. it's only bad when Gaster is overwriting Dess and making Kris go along with it.
 </div></div>

Reversedragon: The Dark World is the best place to find guitars

2025-11-03T13:28:39Z

The Dark World is the best place to find guitars

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:28, 3 November 2025
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	that's the true ending of Deltarune in {{thingamajig\|caps=y\|Redacted}}Tale. Dess gets rid of Gaster only if you steer him to stop Acting and be violent, they banish the Angel, Kris and Dess become Not Goners, they both get to go home to the Light World but the Dark Worlds all get crushed by the Titan fountain and then reboot themselves. and they close the fissures in the world in an unsubtle metaphor for the town slowly healing. everything's pretty good really. the world still has its points of pain and division but Kris and Dess successfully got out of theirs. now it's only other people's secrets and tensions that can tear the earth apart.		that's the true ending of Deltarune in {{thingamajig\|caps=y\|Redacted}}Tale. Dess gets rid of Gaster only if you steer him to stop Acting and be violent, they banish the Angel, Kris and Dess become Not Goners, they both get to go home to the Light World but the Dark Worlds all get crushed by the Titan fountain and then reboot themselves. and they close the fissures in the world in an unsubtle metaphor for the town slowly healing. everything's pretty good really. the world still has its points of pain and division but Kris and Dess successfully got out of theirs. now it's only other people's secrets and tensions that can tear the earth apart.
			</div></div>

			<div class="bop"><h3><time datetime="2025-11-03T20:52:50H">11-03</time></h3>
			<div class="bop-text">{{stage\|[Kris, Susie, and Noelle meet up with Dess again in Chapter 7 after getting shooed out of his office. Noelle makes some comment about the guitar being left behind.]}}

			{{b\|Dess:}} The Dark World is the best place to find guitars. {{stage\|[conjures a memory-object from the infinite blackness, such as a cactus needle, then reshapes it with a flick of the wrist into a wild new guitar]}}
			{{b\|Dess:}} You like it?
			{{b\|Dess:}} Every one of them's different.
			{{b\|Dess:}} {{stage\|[smiles]}} That was all I did for the second month.
			{{b\|Dess:}} After the first month, where I don't know how many months came before it because I couldn't even see.
			{{b\|Dess:}} Imagine my surprise when I got in here and found out I looked like this.
			{{stage\|[Dess' expression changes to a listless one like he knows nothing in this world will ever be fun again]}}
			{{b\|Dess:}} Well.
			{{b\|Dess:}} We have something important to do, don't we?
	</div></div>		</div></div>

Reversedragon: Reversedragon moved page User:Reversedragon/UTDR/pointed-tail to User:Reversedragon/UTDR/pointed-tail/v1: Entity number or thesis portal structure was not final

2025-11-03T05:56:17Z

Reversedragon moved page User:Reversedragon/UTDR/pointed-tail to User:Reversedragon/UTDR/pointed-tail/v1: Entity number or thesis portal structure was not final

← Older revision	Revision as of 05:56, 3 November 2025
(No difference)

Reversedragon: link to bad-memory

2025-11-03T05:55:30Z

link to bad-memory

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:55, 3 November 2025
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	<dl class="bop-meta">		<dl class="bop-meta">
	{{BopFwd\|User:Reversedragon/UTDR/deltashard1\| RedactedTale/ ~~basic concept~~ }}		{{BopFwd\|User:Reversedragon/UTDR/deltashard1\| RedactedTale/ Undertale Memoryhead route, version 1 }}
			{{BopFwd\|User:Reversedragon/UTDR/bad-memory\| RedactedTale/ theory the Knight is bad memories (not a story) }}
	<!-- ; -->{{BopComment}}		<!-- ; -->{{BopComment}}
	{{BopCreated\|2025-10-16T05:09:25Z}}		{{BopCreated\|2025-10-16T05:09:25Z}}

Reversedragon: Jevil and Spamton

2025-10-27T09:23:37Z

Jevil and Spamton

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:23, 27 October 2025
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	</div></div>		</div></div>

	<div class="bop bottom"><h3><time datetime="2025-10-~~25T15~~:38:~~39H~~">10-24</time></h3>		<div class="bop bottom"><h3><time datetime="2025-10-27T17:22:09H">10-27</time></h3>
	clear parallels "to something" inside Deltarune and what I am assuming them to mean		clear parallels "to something" inside Deltarune and what I am assuming them to mean

	* {{TTS\|tts=Rules Card\|Rouxls Kaard}} infiltrating Elnina and Lanino's relationship is meant to represent Susie moving to Hometown and meeting Kris and Noelle, only to be ~~rather~~ confused what is happening and how to fix it. the concept of a "relationship" is generic here, although the Weird Route carries on trolling the player with unnecessary imagery of an actual marriage and divorce. here I am assuming this is the game messing with a player who doesn't care about figuring out how Dess affected the relationship (connection) between Kris and Noelle enough to make the choice to {{em\|remember}} and retrieve Dess.		* {{TTS\|tts=Rules Card\|Rouxls Kaard}} infiltrating Elnina and Lanino's relationship in Chapter 3 is meant to represent Susie moving to Hometown and meeting Kris and Noelle, only to be confused on what is happening and how to fix it. the concept of a "relationship" is generic here, although the Weird Route carries on trolling the player with unnecessary imagery of an actual marriage and divorce. here I am assuming this is the game messing with a player who doesn't care about figuring out how Dess affected the relationship (connection) between Kris and Noelle enough to make the choice to {{em\|remember}} and retrieve Dess.

	* Ralsei cracking under pressure in Chapter 4 after not knowing which of a mountain of secrets to keep and Kris having to help him "not smile" is a mirror of what Kris will ultimately have to go through. Darkners generally reflect somebody's problems, but they often help characters figure out how to get over them.		* Ralsei cracking under pressure in Chapter 4 after not knowing which of a mountain of secrets to keep and Kris having to help him "not smile" is a mirror of what Kris will ultimately have to go through. Darkners generally reflect somebody's problems, but they often help characters figure out how to get over them.

			* when Jevil and Spamton have false freedom and it's presented as meaningful, this is because Kris is gaining false freedom from denying that Dess still exists to be found and not having to listen to Noelle when she ultimately wants to snap Kris out of that belief and break the Prophecy by breaking the link between Kris, the Angel, and Gaster who are all working together to get rid of Dess or keep them hidden in order to complete the story. Jevil's false freedom is Kris' imprisonment under Gaster and the Angel. Spamton's false freedom is Kris thinking that banishing the Angel to gain power over it is enough. Susie's false freedom she presents to Gerson is accidentally believing in the Prophecy by suggesting their world can just not have an ending when that isn't actually possible. Gerson's real freedom is suggesting that Kris can choose a different ending than the Prophecy even if Susie hasn't yet figured out how to. he's probably correct about this. the Shadow Mantle boss is taunting Kris to get the Shadow Crystals for destroying Dess, although that might not be the only use of them. we have reason to think this because the Shadow Mantle is used to fight the Knight, which is a shadow of Dess... this means the Shadow Mantle boss is conceptually giving us things to kill Dess with.

	* the Snowgrave route within chapter 2 is definitely something to be taken a little more figuratively than killing monsters in Undertale. Noelle is killing "something"; Darkners in general are often symbolic of things. so what exactly is Noelle killing? I think to answer this you have to figure out what the counterpart to Souls is in Undertale. among other things, it's implied to be bad to kill Undertale monsters because they all have Souls that you have to break in two. in Deltarune, it's arguable that Souls are totally replaced with Dark Worlds. each character's "Soul" just {{em\|is}} the Dark Worlds they create, and that's why Dark Worlds typically contain fragments of their memories. so when Noelle is killing or removing characters from the Dark World... she is destroying memories. the Snowgrave route is meant to be leading up to the possibility of using Noelle to destroy Dess so the conflict of everyone not wanting to forget Dess will be over.		* the Snowgrave route within chapter 2 is definitely something to be taken a little more figuratively than killing monsters in Undertale. Noelle is killing "something"; Darkners in general are often symbolic of things. so what exactly is Noelle killing? I think to answer this you have to figure out what the counterpart to Souls is in Undertale. among other things, it's implied to be bad to kill Undertale monsters because they all have Souls that you have to break in two. in Deltarune, it's arguable that Souls are totally replaced with Dark Worlds. each character's "Soul" just {{em\|is}} the Dark Worlds they create, and that's why Dark Worlds typically contain fragments of their memories. so when Noelle is killing or removing characters from the Dark World... she is destroying memories. the Snowgrave route is meant to be leading up to the possibility of using Noelle to destroy Dess so the conflict of everyone not wanting to forget Dess will be over.

Reversedragon: Papyrus

2025-10-27T02:21:25Z

Papyrus

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:21, 27 October 2025
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	Sans very gently picks up the red Soul, carries it over making minimal noise, and places it onto Kris, letting it sink back into their body. Kris is still passively angry but seems to have come to a point of accepting that trying to resist this won't make any of this less annoying and they're just going to have to take the Soul back and be angry.		Sans very gently picks up the red Soul, carries it over making minimal noise, and places it onto Kris, letting it sink back into their body. Kris is still passively angry but seems to have come to a point of accepting that trying to resist this won't make any of this less annoying and they're just going to have to take the Soul back and be angry.
			</div></div>

			<div class="bop"><h3><time datetime="2025-10-27T08:54:44H">10-27</time></h3>
			<div class="bop-text">in the midst of The Roaring, when the earth has split apart, the Dark Worlds are crushed, and the Titans fill the sky...<br />a door spontaneously appears on one of the last patches of green grass, and a tall, confident skeleton steps out.

			{{b\|Papyrus:}} Fear not, surface monsters!
			{{b\|Catty:}} {{stage\|[bewildered]}} Who's that?
			{{b\|Papyrus:}} I am The Great Papyrus, and I am here to save monsterkind!
			{{stage\|[Sans looks at this in awe, not ever having expected his "brother" would manifest in reality.]}}
			{{b\|Sans:}} {{stage\|[shoving Papyrus back through the door]}} no no no no. you get back in there.
			{{b\|Papyrus:}} {{stage\|[pushes through and steps onto the grass]}} But I can't. I have to save everyone from—
			{{stage\|[Papyrus' gaze fixes onto the Titan filling up the horizon, and he simply looks at it astonished.]}}
			{{b\|Papyrus:}} What is {{em\|that}}?
			{{b\|Sans:}} {{stage\|[casual]}} the thing you're trying to save everyone from.
			{{b\|Sans:}} {{stage\|[taking Papyrus by the wrist and diving into the door]}} we have to go {{em\|now}}.
			{{stage\|[Another Sans emerges from the door.]}}
			{{b\|Sans:}} hey, big bro? you need to get back in here. it isn't safe to b—
			{{stage\|[Before the other Sans can do anything, Deltarune Sans has dragged Papyrus back through the door and shut it, leaving the former Undertale Sans stranded. he looks back at the empty space where the door was in panic, denial, bargaining, and depression.]}}
	</div></div>		</div></div>

Reversedragon: Kris is the vessel

2025-10-26T15:19:03Z

Kris is the vessel

Show changes

Reversedragon: proofread

2025-10-26T14:15:52Z

proofread

Show changes

Reversedragon: dirty brother killer / Dess fight

2025-10-26T05:29:06Z

dirty brother killer / Dess fight

@@ Line 353: / Line 353: @@
 </div></div>
-<div class="bop"><h3><time datetime="2025-10-25T12:08:30H">10-25</time></h3>
+<div class="bop bottom"><h3><time datetime="2025-10-25T12:08:30H">10-25</time></h3>
 <div class="bop-text">I liked that idea just a bit too much to stop or delete it, but... hmm. I feel like it would have more power if Noelle was there. I also think there's an argument to be made that Ralsei is "a problem" under this framework. if Gaster is the big issue being this misguided "hero" or antihero that the heroes have to get rid of to save Dess, but Ralsei is helping Gaster, there might be a problem.
 I like the concept that what the last prophecy panel says is something to the effect that they have to kill Dess. Kris and Noelle's one objective is to find Dess and not forget Dess, but what the prophecy says is nope, you've gotta destroy them. this would make a lot of sense as far as the fact the prophecy panel wasn't shown to us. people assume it had to involve Kris, Susie, or Ralsei, but that's because they don't know about a possible twist of Dess being the source of Gaster who is then the source of the prophecy. which there would be decent reason to keep hiding for just a little bit into Chapter 4. why was there a silent guitar when you futilely try to go back to that panel specifically? there's a very good chance that panel is about Dess.
@@ Line 372: / Line 372: @@
 so I guess what that implies is {{em|Dess}} can maybe learn to use the Deltarune-Gaster powers and fix the world? it's usually Gaster using them when he phones Sans and creates the doors, but the Roaring Knight also has the ability to move Dark Fountains at a low level. so I suppose Dess can harness those powers to forestall the Roaring one last time and go home. all of this revolves around Dess going home, like, we can't have an edgy ending where he just stays down there with the guarantee of always being able to stop the world from breaking. that would make Dess' endings indistinguishable from Gaster's ending. so no, the true ending of Deltarune has to be that Dess goes home even though the biggest plot beats of the ending are the same. the in-game Prophecy "spoils" the ending of Deltarune, but it doesn't fully explain that Dess can go home if everyone makes the right choice.
 </div></div>

Reversedragon: put back chronological again

2025-10-26T05:04:23Z

put back chronological again

Show changes

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:28, 3 November 2025
Line 451:		Line 451:

	that's the true ending of Deltarune in {{thingamajig\|caps=y\|Redacted}}Tale. Dess gets rid of Gaster only if you steer him to stop Acting and be violent, they banish the Angel, Kris and Dess become Not Goners, they both get to go home to the Light World but the Dark Worlds all get crushed by the Titan fountain and then reboot themselves. and they close the fissures in the world in an unsubtle metaphor for the town slowly healing. everything's pretty good really. the world still has its points of pain and division but Kris and Dess successfully got out of theirs. now it's only other people's secrets and tensions that can tear the earth apart.		that's the true ending of Deltarune in {{thingamajig\|caps=y\|Redacted}}Tale. Dess gets rid of Gaster only if you steer him to stop Acting and be violent, they banish the Angel, Kris and Dess become Not Goners, they both get to go home to the Light World but the Dark Worlds all get crushed by the Titan fountain and then reboot themselves. and they close the fissures in the world in an unsubtle metaphor for the town slowly healing. everything's pretty good really. the world still has its points of pain and division but Kris and Dess successfully got out of theirs. now it's only other people's secrets and tensions that can tear the earth apart.
			</div></div>

			<div class="bop"><h3><time datetime="2025-11-03T20:52:50H">11-03</time></h3>
			<div class="bop-text">{{stage\|[Kris, Susie, and Noelle meet up with Dess again in Chapter 7 after getting shooed out of his office. Noelle makes some comment about the guitar being left behind.]}}

			{{b\|Dess:}} The Dark World is the best place to find guitars. {{stage\|[conjures a memory-object from the infinite blackness, such as a cactus needle, then reshapes it with a flick of the wrist into a wild new guitar]}}
			{{b\|Dess:}} You like it?
			{{b\|Dess:}} Every one of them's different.
			{{b\|Dess:}} {{stage\|[smiles]}} That was all I did for the second month.
			{{b\|Dess:}} After the first month, where I don't know how many months came before it because I couldn't even see.
			{{b\|Dess:}} Imagine my surprise when I got in here and found out I looked like this.
			{{stage\|[Dess' expression changes to a listless one like he knows nothing in this world will ever be fun again]}}
			{{b\|Dess:}} Well.
			{{b\|Dess:}} We have something important to do, don't we?
	</div></div>		</div></div>

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:21, 27 October 2025
Line 321:		Line 321:

	Sans very gently picks up the red Soul, carries it over making minimal noise, and places it onto Kris, letting it sink back into their body. Kris is still passively angry but seems to have come to a point of accepting that trying to resist this won't make any of this less annoying and they're just going to have to take the Soul back and be angry.		Sans very gently picks up the red Soul, carries it over making minimal noise, and places it onto Kris, letting it sink back into their body. Kris is still passively angry but seems to have come to a point of accepting that trying to resist this won't make any of this less annoying and they're just going to have to take the Soul back and be angry.
			</div></div>

			<div class="bop"><h3><time datetime="2025-10-27T08:54:44H">10-27</time></h3>
			<div class="bop-text">in the midst of The Roaring, when the earth has split apart, the Dark Worlds are crushed, and the Titans fill the sky...<br />a door spontaneously appears on one of the last patches of green grass, and a tall, confident skeleton steps out.

			{{b\|Papyrus:}} Fear not, surface monsters!
			{{b\|Catty:}} {{stage\|[bewildered]}} Who's that?
			{{b\|Papyrus:}} I am The Great Papyrus, and I am here to save monsterkind!
			{{stage\|[Sans looks at this in awe, not ever having expected his "brother" would manifest in reality.]}}
			{{b\|Sans:}} {{stage\|[shoving Papyrus back through the door]}} no no no no. you get back in there.
			{{b\|Papyrus:}} {{stage\|[pushes through and steps onto the grass]}} But I can't. I have to save everyone from—
			{{stage\|[Papyrus' gaze fixes onto the Titan filling up the horizon, and he simply looks at it astonished.]}}
			{{b\|Papyrus:}} What is {{em\|that}}?
			{{b\|Sans:}} {{stage\|[casual]}} the thing you're trying to save everyone from.
			{{b\|Sans:}} {{stage\|[taking Papyrus by the wrist and diving into the door]}} we have to go {{em\|now}}.
			{{stage\|[Another Sans emerges from the door.]}}
			{{b\|Sans:}} hey, big bro? you need to get back in here. it isn't safe to b—
			{{stage\|[Before the other Sans can do anything, Deltarune Sans has dragged Papyrus back through the door and shut it, leaving the former Undertale Sans stranded. he looks back at the empty space where the door was in panic, denial, bargaining, and depression.]}}
	</div></div>		</div></div>