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In 1985 the Workers' Revolutionary Party (Britain) broke from Trotskyism
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== Descriptors ==
== Associated motifs or claims ==
<ol class="hue clean">
<ol class="hue clean">


</li><li class="field_trotsky" value="4600" data-dimension="S0">Trotskyist group, organization, or party
{{li|start=y|I=S2/IV|Q=40,46|Q2=4046}}Revisionism is when Marxist parties aren't orange / "Marxist" parties that aren't Trotskyist parties are [[E:epistemic possibility|probably not]] Marxist movements  -> Cannon, Pablo, ICFI. this seems like a terrible stance to take if you want as many regions of the world in an era of socialism as possible.
</li><li class="field_trotsky" value="4620" data-dimension="S0">Trotskyist group affiliated with the Fourth International of 1938


</li><li class="field_trotsky" data-qid="40,21" value="4021" data-dimension="S">international-conference Trotskyism  ->  ???
{{li|I=S2/MX/IV|tradition=IV onto MX|Q=618|Q2=618}}Trotskyism is molecularized at the international scale / Trotskyism is not about preserving the Communist International, but actively regenerating a Communist International at any time in any place from correct understandings; Trotskyism is a molecularized model of Communist Internationals in which the relativity process within history is taken into account and thus any group of parties with correct understandings of historical materialism can snap together and become the Communist International (ICFI) ->  I remember when an anarchist [[NR:5c/YT/CynicalArtKillingHope26|brought up]] a dumb quote about how revolution is inside you and "you" can only be the revolution. this is like a vastly better version of that that somehow actually makes sense because it explains what the distinctions 'inside you' actually assemble into
</li><li class="field_trotsky" data-qid="40,22" value="4022" data-dimension="S">international-party Trotskyism  ->  ???


</li></ol>
{{li|I=S2/IV|Q=42,71|Q2=4271}}The ICFI (Fourth International of 1953) aims to realize an era of socialism which stretches around the world [https://www.wsws.org/en/special/pages/icfi/about.html] / The ICFI believes the realization of Trotskyism begins with an era of socialism  -> see, like, all by itself, this makes sense. what doesn't make sense is A) Trotskyists have never realized (noticed) that the more Dengisms or East-Germanies there are the more likely it is that they get world socialism (Bolshevism) specifically B) Trotskyists have never realized that mainstream Marxism-Leninism contributed to getting to world socialism C) the observed fact that in the real world whenever you challenge socialisms-in-one-country you're way more likely to get international anarchist movements that reject an era of socialism than you are to get anything resembling Trotskyism or any form of Leninism period. this honestly still confuses me because you would think a Trotskyism consisting of about 5-20 countries at a time would make more logical sense than anarchism in like every regard. it has possible structures that come to mind based on history (although there might be several that are possible) and if it ever came to be it could defend itself. but everything that isn't Liberal-republicanism or socialism-in-one-country (plus Dengism etc) being anarchism is the observed real-world pattern. it's vaguely as if it's only physically possible to create populational structures that are smaller than one population or the exact size of one population while it's physically impossible to take all the people inside two populations and form a new border around them as is required for an era of socialism.


== Associated motifs or claims ==
{{li|I=S2/IV/ML|Q=42,86|Q2=4286}}Pabloism / the opportunist current that sought to liquidate the Fourth International and allow Stalinist states to form / ([[EC:9k/RD/Q42,86|9k]])
<ol class="hue clean">


{{li|start=y|I=S2/IV|Q=42,71|Q2=4271}}The ICFI (Fourth International of 1953) aims to realize an era of socialism which stretches around the world [https://www.wsws.org/en/special/pages/icfi/about.html] / The ICFI believes the realization of Trotskyism begins with an era of socialism ->  see, like, all by itself, this makes sense. what doesn't make sense is A) Trotskyists have never realized (noticed) that the more Dengisms or East-Germanies there are the more likely it is that they get world socialism (Bolshevism) specifically B) Trotskyists have never realized that mainstream Marxism-Leninism contributed to getting to world socialism C) the observed fact that in the real world whenever you challenge socialisms-in-one-country you're way more likely to get international anarchist movements that reject an era of socialism than you are to get anything resembling Trotskyism or any form of Leninism period. this honestly still confuses me because you would think a Trotskyism consisting of about 5-20 countries at a time would make more logical sense than anarchism in like every regard. it has possible structures that come to mind based on history (although there might be several that are possible) and if it ever came to be it could defend itself. but everything that isn't Liberal-republicanism or socialism-in-one-country (plus Dengism etc) being anarchism is the observed real-world pattern. it's vaguely as if it's only physically possible to create populational structures that are smaller than one population or the exact size of one population while it's physically impossible to take all the people inside two populations and form a new border around them as is required for an era of socialism.
{{li|I=S2/IV|Q=618|Q2=618}}In 1985 the Workers' Revolutionary Party (Britain) broke from Trotskyism  ->  <s>gosh what did they do? have to actually read this later.</s><br/>
<s>it's always so funny to see these accusations out of context because it's always a total toss-up of whether the accused group will have done something uniquely forbidden in Trotskyism or actually have made a serious error it seems reasonable to cover</s>


{{li|I=S2/IV|Q=40,46|Q2=4046}}Revisionism is when Marxist parties aren't orange ->  Cannon, Pablo, ICFI. this seems like a terrible stance to take if you want as many regions of the world in an era of socialism as possible.
{{li|I=S2/IV|Q=618|Q2=618}}In 1985 the Workers' Revolutionary Party (Britain) broke from Trotskyism [https://www.wsws.org/en/special/library/how-the-wrp-betrayed-trotskyism/00.html] [https://www.wsws.org/en/special/library/frankfurt-school-postmodernism-politics-pseudoleft/05.html] ->  well! I found out what the WRP "did". they let people oscillate in and out of [[E:Q73|Existentialism]] / postmodernism and in and out of Trotskyist parties. that result is pretty bad and it sounds like ultimately it was good to turn against it. I'm still not entirely sure how the WRP {{em|caused}} that result, but, yeah, okay.


{{li|I=S2/IV/ML|Q=42,86|Q2=4286}}Pabloism / the opportunist current that sought to liquidate the Fourth International and allow Stalinist states to form / ([[EC:9k/RD/Q42,86|9k]])
{{li|I=S2/IV|Q=618|Q2=618}}Morenoites support ineffective parties / Since the 1950s, Morenoites (Permanent Revolution Current; etc) are infamous for teaming up with bourgeois parties that never actually deliver on defending workers [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/03/16/evtf-m16.html]


{{li|I=S2/IV|Q=42,86|Q2=4286}}In 1985 the Workers' Revolutionary Party (Britain) broke from Trotskyism [https://www.wsws.org/en/special/library/how-the-wrp-betrayed-trotskyism/00.html]  -> gosh what did they do? have to actually read this later.<br/>
</li></ol>
it's always so funny to see these accusations out of context because it's always a total toss-up of whether the accused group will have done something uniquely forbidden in Trotskyism or actually have made a serious error it seems reasonable to cover


== [[:Category:User pages representing concepts rather than project members|Associated Users]] ==
<ol class="hue clean">
{{li|start=y|I=Z1/IV|dimension=U|Q=44,6,86|Q2=44686}}[[User:ICFIReporters|ICFIReporters]]  ->  This user is used to represent propositions coming from ICFI publications.
</li></ol>
</li></ol>


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== Ideologies or fields ==
== Ideologies or fields ==
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    |I=Z1/IV|Q=41,04|Q2=4104}}{{TTS|IV|Fourth}} / Trotskyism
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{{li|I=S0/IV|Q=4600 |Q2=4600}}{{TTS|IV|Fourth}} / Trotskyist group, organization, or party
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{{li|I=Z0/IV|Q=46,21|Q2=4621}}{{TTS|IV|Fourth}} / Trotskyist international
 
{{li|I=Z0/IV|Q=46,20|Q2=4620}}{{TTS|IV|Fourth}} / group affiliated with Fourth International of 1938
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Latest revision as of 21:45, 26 May 2026

Main entry

  1. International Committee (1953) / ICFI (attempted International) [1]

Associated motifs or claims

  1. Revisionism is when Marxist parties aren't orange / "Marxist" parties that aren't Trotskyist parties are probably not Marxist movements -> Cannon, Pablo, ICFI. this seems like a terrible stance to take if you want as many regions of the world in an era of socialism as possible.
  2. Trotskyism is molecularized at the international scale / Trotskyism is not about preserving the Communist International, but actively regenerating a Communist International at any time in any place from correct understandings; Trotskyism is a molecularized model of Communist Internationals in which the relativity process within history is taken into account and thus any group of parties with correct understandings of historical materialism can snap together and become the Communist International (ICFI) -> I remember when an anarchist brought up a dumb quote about how revolution is inside you and "you" can only be the revolution. this is like a vastly better version of that that somehow actually makes sense because it explains what the distinctions 'inside you' actually assemble into
  3. The ICFI (Fourth International of 1953) aims to realize an era of socialism which stretches around the world [2] / The ICFI believes the realization of Trotskyism begins with an era of socialism -> see, like, all by itself, this makes sense. what doesn't make sense is A) Trotskyists have never realized (noticed) that the more Dengisms or East-Germanies there are the more likely it is that they get world socialism (Bolshevism) specifically B) Trotskyists have never realized that mainstream Marxism-Leninism contributed to getting to world socialism C) the observed fact that in the real world whenever you challenge socialisms-in-one-country you're way more likely to get international anarchist movements that reject an era of socialism than you are to get anything resembling Trotskyism or any form of Leninism period. this honestly still confuses me because you would think a Trotskyism consisting of about 5-20 countries at a time would make more logical sense than anarchism in like every regard. it has possible structures that come to mind based on history (although there might be several that are possible) and if it ever came to be it could defend itself. but everything that isn't Liberal-republicanism or socialism-in-one-country (plus Dengism etc) being anarchism is the observed real-world pattern. it's vaguely as if it's only physically possible to create populational structures that are smaller than one population or the exact size of one population while it's physically impossible to take all the people inside two populations and form a new border around them as is required for an era of socialism.
  4. Pabloism / the opportunist current that sought to liquidate the Fourth International and allow Stalinist states to form / (9k)
  5. In 1985 the Workers' Revolutionary Party (Britain) broke from Trotskyism -> gosh what did they do? have to actually read this later.
    it's always so funny to see these accusations out of context because it's always a total toss-up of whether the accused group will have done something uniquely forbidden in Trotskyism or actually have made a serious error it seems reasonable to cover
  6. In 1985 the Workers' Revolutionary Party (Britain) broke from Trotskyism [3] [4] -> well! I found out what the WRP "did". they let people oscillate in and out of Existentialism / postmodernism and in and out of Trotskyist parties. that result is pretty bad and it sounds like ultimately it was good to turn against it. I'm still not entirely sure how the WRP caused that result, but, yeah, okay.
  7. Morenoites support ineffective parties / Since the 1950s, Morenoites (Permanent Revolution Current; etc) are infamous for teaming up with bourgeois parties that never actually deliver on defending workers [5]

Associated Users

  1. ICFIReporters -> This user is used to represent propositions coming from ICFI publications.

Ideologies or fields

  1. pronounced Fourth / Trotskyism
  2. pronounced Fourth / Trotskyist group, organization, or party
  3. pronounced Fourth / Trotskyist international
  4. pronounced Fourth / group affiliated with Fourth International of 1938
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