Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q38,45: Difference between revisions
hyperreality / reification ; created yesterday |
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{{li|start=y|I=S1/Fy|Q=38,45|Q2=3845}}[[E:Q38,45|superstructural fantasy world]] | {{li|start=y|I=S1/Fy|Q=38,45|Q2=3845}}[[E:Q38,45|superstructural fantasy world]] -> any world created within the universe of a piece of fiction which comes to exist from physical objects and then involves those objects gaining consciousness or becoming a simulation of conscious people. this covers digital worlds, worlds made out of toys, stories where books are based on the physical world around them but then are real, sometimes it might cover modern fiction presenting a picture of religion where it is just religion reverse-engineered to its roots so that actual objects in reality like the earth or lightning are themselves talking and then they go back to being objects. a superstructural fantasy world is a dynamic relationship between the concept of [[E:material idea (meta-Marxism)|material ideas]] represented very literally inside fiction and the concept of Idealist ideas represented very literally inside fiction that emerge from the material ideas. | ||
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{{li|I=S1/ES|tradition=|Q=618}}hyperreality (post-structuralism, postmodern philosophy) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality] / The Matrix (generic) / consumerism (replacing perception of news events or products with perceptions created by corporations) [https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/psychology/hyperreality] -> "a cultural state of confusion between signs and symbols invented to stand in for reality, and direct perceptions" — wait, so is there any difference between hyperreality and reification? they sound like the same thing here. | {{li|I=S1/ES|tradition=|Q=618}}hyperreality (post-structuralism, postmodern philosophy) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality] / The Matrix (generic) / consumerism (replacing perception of news events or products with perceptions created by corporations) [https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/psychology/hyperreality] -> "a cultural state of confusion between signs and symbols invented to stand in for reality, and direct perceptions" — wait, so is there any difference between hyperreality and reification? they sound like the same thing here. | ||
{{li|I= | {{li|I=F2/LR|Q=618|h4= God created dragon hoards }} / Gold and silver are {{em|not}} tokens of rare and exclusive relationships, and are supernaturally or metaphysically valuable; this is not to state that any particular supernatural cause ("God", etc.) is the root of the metaphysical Ideal of wealth, but this is to state that the metaphysical Ideal of wealth is baked into physical objects like pearls and diamonds / To the monetary system, gold and silver ... were natural objects with strange social properties (Marx) / ({{9k|RD/Q1867}}) -><br/> | ||
... gosh this proposition is even in Steven Universe isn't it? because the Gems have inherent ranks that are kind of metaphysical in nature, this stone always creates a Gem of this rank, even when you abolish the utter tyranny of the Gem planet, in mysterious ways they are still really defined by their inherent qualities {{em|qualitatively}}. the notion of value is like baked into them although because they are people it turns into more of a spatial hierarchy of desirable slots [...]. I'm sure there is a whole page to be written about Gems and Darkners and how fiction projects the concept of exchange-value onto personified objects as something they inherently are or they socially constructed through historical events or customs in their own object society, etc. as well as even weirder questions like, if pets and object people are written similarly in fiction, are pets to be considered products when analyzing fiction and how pets are anthropomorphized? | |||
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== Examples == | == Examples == | ||
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</li><li data-qid="19,67" value="1967" class="field_fantasy" data-dimension="Z"><cite>The Wonderful Wizard of Oz</cite> (1939) / land of Oz (sense) -> to me, this counts mainly because there are a handful of things in the secret world that blatantly reference the ordinary world. you have the characters with the faces of people Dorothy knew, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowardly_Lion] and on a different level you have the 'wizard of Oz' as a character loosely referencing real historical events that are sort of things that have happened in the novel too inasmuch as gold-backed currency is presumably a concept that exists and presidents presumably exist and U.S. elections have been about the same with very similar content for a long while. the story reads as the characters dreaming up a weird adventure based on elements from reality whether or not it really truly works that way, and the idea that the wizard is there at the end making stuff up and trying to make it appear real doesn't help that impression. | |||
{{li|I=S1/Fy|tradition=|Q=39,03|Q2=3903}}The Matrix (motif) / The Matrix (digital world; sense) | |||
</li><li class="field_fantasy" data-qid="66,15" value="6615" data-dimension="S">[[Ontology:Q6615|Dark World]] ({{game|Deltarune}}) | |||
</li></ol> | |||
== Related == | == Related == | ||
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</li><li data-qid="19,67" value="1967" class="field_fantasy" data-dimension="Z"><cite>The Wonderful Wizard of Oz</cite> (1900) -> the movie was released in 1939. I do not know if they should be the same Item. I'll say for now you can use the same Item for either with different sense-labels. | |||
{{li|I=Z1/Fy|Q=618}}{{film|The Matrix}} (1999) | |||
{{li|I=Z1/Fy|Q=76,17|Q2=7617}}{{game|Deltarune|E=Q7617}} (2018-) | |||
{{li|I=S1/MN|tradition=|Q=618}}reification (Marx) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lukacs/works/history/hcc05.htm] -> what Marx said was this: although products are produced in corporations, relationships between corporations or clusters of workers are not taken seriously as relationships, so stacks of payment become "things" rather than active relationships, and commodities become stacks of things at the same time. this transformation of everything into disconnected things is reification ({{i|lang=de|Verdinglichung}}). | |||
{{li|I=Z1/ML|tradition=|Q=18,67|Q2=1867}}{{book|Capital}} volume I (Marx 1863/1867) / ({{9k|RD/Q1867}}) | |||
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Latest revision as of 06:23, 30 July 2026
Main entry
- superstructural fantasy world -> any world created within the universe of a piece of fiction which comes to exist from physical objects and then involves those objects gaining consciousness or becoming a simulation of conscious people. this covers digital worlds, worlds made out of toys, stories where books are based on the physical world around them but then are real, sometimes it might cover modern fiction presenting a picture of religion where it is just religion reverse-engineered to its roots so that actual objects in reality like the earth or lightning are themselves talking and then they go back to being objects. a superstructural fantasy world is a dynamic relationship between the concept of material ideas represented very literally inside fiction and the concept of Idealist ideas represented very literally inside fiction that emerge from the material ideas.
The imaginary world
Wendy Oldbag illustrates Idealism
/ Idealism and RPG element systems / Idealism and thematic antagonisms in visual novels / (9k) -> seems tangential at first, but is actually very related to how some superstructural fantasy worlds form. they can begin with personifications of abstract concepts, which could be Death or Nature or could be "what personality a key ring has"- hypostasis (religion) / hypostasis (distillation of Father, Son, or Holy Spirit from observed universe; Christianity) [1] / separation of a linguistic sign into a character or god (linguistics); Death (figure of speech); Nature (figure of speech) / (9k)
- hypostatization (Materialism) / turning abstract Ideals into ontological objects [2] / Idealism (transforming abstract concepts into 'pataphysical entities with specific interactions with other entities; generic) / (9k)
- hyperreality (post-structuralism, postmodern philosophy) [3] / The Matrix (generic) / consumerism (replacing perception of news events or products with perceptions created by corporations) [4] -> "a cultural state of confusion between signs and symbols invented to stand in for reality, and direct perceptions" — wait, so is there any difference between hyperreality and reification? they sound like the same thing here.
God created dragon hoards
/ Gold and silver are not tokens of rare and exclusive relationships, and are supernaturally or metaphysically valuable; this is not to state that any particular supernatural cause ("God", etc.) is the root of the metaphysical Ideal of wealth, but this is to state that the metaphysical Ideal of wealth is baked into physical objects like pearls and diamonds / To the monetary system, gold and silver ... were natural objects with strange social properties (Marx) / (9k) ->
... gosh this proposition is even in Steven Universe isn't it? because the Gems have inherent ranks that are kind of metaphysical in nature, this stone always creates a Gem of this rank, even when you abolish the utter tyranny of the Gem planet, in mysterious ways they are still really defined by their inherent qualities qualitatively. the notion of value is like baked into them although because they are people it turns into more of a spatial hierarchy of desirable slots [...]. I'm sure there is a whole page to be written about Gems and Darkners and how fiction projects the concept of exchange-value onto personified objects as something they inherently are or they socially constructed through historical events or customs in their own object society, etc. as well as even weirder questions like, if pets and object people are written similarly in fiction, are pets to be considered products when analyzing fiction and how pets are anthropomorphized?
The real world
Examples
- The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (1939) / land of Oz (sense) -> to me, this counts mainly because there are a handful of things in the secret world that blatantly reference the ordinary world. you have the characters with the faces of people Dorothy knew, [5] and on a different level you have the 'wizard of Oz' as a character loosely referencing real historical events that are sort of things that have happened in the novel too inasmuch as gold-backed currency is presumably a concept that exists and presidents presumably exist and U.S. elections have been about the same with very similar content for a long while. the story reads as the characters dreaming up a weird adventure based on elements from reality whether or not it really truly works that way, and the idea that the wizard is there at the end making stuff up and trying to make it appear real doesn't help that impression.
- The Matrix (motif) / The Matrix (digital world; sense)
- Dark World (Deltarune)
Related
- The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (1900) -> the movie was released in 1939. I do not know if they should be the same Item. I'll say for now you can use the same Item for either with different sense-labels.
- The Matrix (1999)
- Deltarune (2018-)
- reification (Marx) [6] -> what Marx said was this: although products are produced in corporations, relationships between corporations or clusters of workers are not taken seriously as relationships, so stacks of payment become "things" rather than active relationships, and commodities become stacks of things at the same time. this transformation of everything into disconnected things is reification (Verdinglichung).
- Capital volume I (Marx 1863/1867) / (9k)
Ideologies, fields, or genres
- / fantasy genre