Jump to content

Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q618-UminekoNoNakuKoroNi: Difference between revisions

From LithoGraphica
← Older edit
Reversedragon (talk | contribs)
Bureaucrats, Conference pass, Interface administrators, Arts-aligned editors, Crimson-aligned editors, Violet-aligned editors, Administrators
18,825 edits
We maintain that the activity of interpreting the world must continue to be linked with the activity of changing the world
Reversedragon (talk | contribs)
Bureaucrats, Conference pass, Interface administrators, Arts-aligned editors, Crimson-aligned editors, Violet-aligned editors, Administrators
18,825 edits
Animal Farm 0% speedrun
 
(3 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown)
Line 16: Line 16:


{{li|start=y|I=S2/MX/IV|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}Umineko and {{book|Animal Farm}} are telling the same story / Umineko and [potential spoiler] are telling the same story (redacted title)  ->  you think I'm joking. but this is not a joke.
{{li|start=y|I=S2/MX/IV|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}Umineko and {{book|Animal Farm}} are telling the same story / Umineko and [potential spoiler] are telling the same story (redacted title)  ->  you think I'm joking. but this is not a joke.
{{li|I=S1/IV|tradition=|Q=40,36|Q2=4036}}Stalin is basically Monokuma / ({{9k|RD/Q4036}})  ->  I was only able to realize after I actually started reading this that Umineko is a {{em|vastly}} better example of this. it's like, almost literally this motif as a story. it's not presented as a game show but there is an argument that when it's {{spoiler|a treasure hunt for hidden gold}} it is a kind of contest anyway.


{{li|I=S2/MX/IV|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}Kinzo represents global capitalism / [potential spoiler] represents global capitalism (Umineko) (redacted title)  ->  hmm. I think the best thing to do with these propositions is to create an abbreviated form of the proposition that is amusingly cryptic, then explain the whole thing on a proposition page just for the individual proposition.
{{li|I=S2/MX/IV|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}Kinzo represents global capitalism / [potential spoiler] represents global capitalism (Umineko) (redacted title)  ->  hmm. I think the best thing to do with these propositions is to create an abbreviated form of the proposition that is amusingly cryptic, then explain the whole thing on a proposition page just for the individual proposition.
{{li|I=S1/MN|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}it is spiritless family life, the illusion of family life (Marx onto Hegel) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/ch05.htm#051]  ->  I feel like this is a major theme in Umineko in some sense. this concept that you think family is built on love but the family being depicted is built on independent wealth / property and it will never be the same thing.


{{li|I=S2/MX/IV|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{spoiler|Natsuhi going against Eva with a gun}} is the Moscow Trials / [potential spoilers] is the Moscow Trials (Umineko) (redacted title)
{{li|I=S2/MX/IV|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{spoiler|Natsuhi going against Eva with a gun}} is the Moscow Trials / [potential spoilers] is the Moscow Trials (Umineko) (redacted title)
Line 28: Line 32:
{{li|I=S2/MX|tradition=MX onto W, MX onto IV|Q=618|Q2=618}}To succeed at Gramscianism you have to be a Trotskyist / To succeed at Gramscianism ([[EC:9k/RD/Q618-MarxismAccordingToAntonioGramsci|Gramsci's Marxism]]; Gramsci's version of Bolshevism) it is necessary to hide Lattice points that are to be passed on by unaware people behind the borders of multiple countries, which in effect transforms Gramscianism into a form of Trotskyism / ({{9k|RD/Q30,52}})  ->  this proposition will seem like word salad unless you've read Umineko and then you'll understand it instantly. the way it hides this stuff almost specifically for people in multiple countries... you have to see it, but it almost explains this proposition better than a straight non-fiction explanation.
{{li|I=S2/MX|tradition=MX onto W, MX onto IV|Q=618|Q2=618}}To succeed at Gramscianism you have to be a Trotskyist / To succeed at Gramscianism ([[EC:9k/RD/Q618-MarxismAccordingToAntonioGramsci|Gramsci's Marxism]]; Gramsci's version of Bolshevism) it is necessary to hide Lattice points that are to be passed on by unaware people behind the borders of multiple countries, which in effect transforms Gramscianism into a form of Trotskyism / ({{9k|RD/Q30,52}})  ->  this proposition will seem like word salad unless you've read Umineko and then you'll understand it instantly. the way it hides this stuff almost specifically for people in multiple countries... you have to see it, but it almost explains this proposition better than a straight non-fiction explanation.


{{li|I=S1/MN|tradition=|Q=36,22|Q2=3622}}Communist monomyth / greatest story ever told (sense)  ->  the motif of retelling "the story of Marxism" (as someone interprets it) like it was at least as important as the Bible.
{{li|I=S1/MN|tradition=|Q=36,22|Q2=3622}}Communist monomyth / greatest story ever told (Communism) {{9k|RD|Q35,17}} ->  the motif of retelling "the story of Marxism so far" (as someone interprets it) like it was at least as important as the Bible.


{{li|I=S2/IV|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}Stalinists lack literary depth / Stalinists have no imagination / It is impossible not to remark in those who have written [these Stalinist articles] an extreme weariness, a secret resignation to what exists, with the concern to keep the reader in a more or less generous illusion as cheaply as possible (Breton) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1997/06/bre2-j16.html] / We maintain that the activity of interpreting the world must continue to be linked with the activity of changing the world ... it is the artist's role to study the human problem in depth in all its forms (Breton)  ->  I think I found the explanation of what the hell is going on with Umineko.<br/>
{{li|I=S2/IV|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}Stalinists lack literary depth / Stalinists have no imagination / It is impossible not to remark in those who have written [these Stalinist articles] an extreme weariness, a secret resignation to what exists, with the concern to keep the reader in a more or less generous illusion as cheaply as possible (Breton) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1997/06/bre2-j16.html] / We maintain that the activity of interpreting the world must continue to be linked with the activity of changing the world ... it is the artist's role to study the human problem in depth in all its forms (Breton)  ->  I think I found the explanation of what the hell is going on with Umineko.<br/>
for some reason, Trotskyists write party newspapers in orange and literature in violet.<br/>
for some reason, Trotskyists write party newspapers in orange and literature in violet.<br/>
not something I can have any complaints about. [[E:Q92|I just wish they'd write their newspapers in violet]].
not something I can have any complaints about. [[E:Q92|I just wish they'd write their newspapers in violet]].
{{li|I=S1/MX/ES|tradition=MX onto ES, IV oer ES|Q=618|Q2=618}}Animal Farm 0% speedrun / trying to get the worst ending to Umineko (analogy)  ->  this is a very specific analogy. it applies to any situation where people are modeling the conflict between Stalin's party and the Trotskyites as some smaller system like a mansion or a farm or maybe a blood-red house where people are being [[EC:9k/RD/Q38,02|crushed into spheres, respawning, and being made to haul out their previous red spheres]]. when you give a terrible method for analyzing one of these hypothetical situations which first of all does not even understand how to properly turn Trotskyism into an analogy and second of all is totally failing to give a convincing solution to how the "Trotskyites" within the metaphor can properly overcome the situation they're in, then you are "trying to get the worst ending to Umineko".


</li></ol>
</li></ol>
Line 46: Line 52:
{{li|I=S1/MN|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{TTS|MN|M.N.}} / historical materialism in fiction
{{li|I=S1/MN|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{TTS|MN|M.N.}} / historical materialism in fiction
{{li|I=S1/MX|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{TTS|MX|meta-Marxism}} / meta-Marxism in fiction
{{li|I=S1/MX|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{TTS|MX|meta-Marxism}} / meta-Marxism in fiction
{{li|I=S1/ES|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{TTS|BM|BM}} / postmodernism
</li></ol>
</li></ol>


Latest revision as of 05:09, 24 October 2026

Content warnings

  • Umineko spoilers
  • Umineko is a relatively linear story that is best experienced without spoilers (or very minimal spoilers). There may be partial spoilers up to about Episode 3 on this page.
  • I have put all spoilers from after the beginning of Day 2 in spoiler tags. If you mention any of these propositions in edit summaries, please use the redacted titles.

Main entry

  1. Umineko / 『うみねこのなく頃に』 -> a highly unusual case of a work of fiction being violet not just due to its approach but due to its specific subject matter. I won't spoil the exact plot of the story itself on this page but see below. if you've already read the work your mind will be blown.

Unpacking the allegory

  1. Umineko and Animal Farm are telling the same story / Umineko and [potential spoiler] are telling the same story (redacted title) -> you think I'm joking. but this is not a joke.
  2. Stalin is basically Monokuma / (9k) -> I was only able to realize after I actually started reading this that Umineko is a vastly better example of this. it's like, almost literally this motif as a story. it's not presented as a game show but there is an argument that when it's spoiler: it is a kind of contest anyway.
  3. Kinzo represents global capitalism / [potential spoiler] represents global capitalism (Umineko) (redacted title) -> hmm. I think the best thing to do with these propositions is to create an abbreviated form of the proposition that is amusingly cryptic, then explain the whole thing on a proposition page just for the individual proposition.
  4. it is spiritless family life, the illusion of family life (Marx onto Hegel) [1] -> I feel like this is a major theme in Umineko in some sense. this concept that you think family is built on love but the family being depicted is built on independent wealth / property and it will never be the same thing.
  5. spoiler: is the Moscow Trials / [potential spoilers] is the Moscow Trials (Umineko) (redacted title)

Related

  1. To succeed at Gramscianism you have to be a Trotskyist / To succeed at Gramscianism (Gramsci's Marxism; Gramsci's version of Bolshevism) it is necessary to hide Lattice points that are to be passed on by unaware people behind the borders of multiple countries, which in effect transforms Gramscianism into a form of Trotskyism / (9k) -> this proposition will seem like word salad unless you've read Umineko and then you'll understand it instantly. the way it hides this stuff almost specifically for people in multiple countries... you have to see it, but it almost explains this proposition better than a straight non-fiction explanation.
  2. Communist monomyth / greatest story ever told (Communism) / (9k) -> the motif of retelling "the story of Marxism so far" (as someone interprets it) like it was at least as important as the Bible.
  3. Stalinists lack literary depth / Stalinists have no imagination / It is impossible not to remark in those who have written [these Stalinist articles] an extreme weariness, a secret resignation to what exists, with the concern to keep the reader in a more or less generous illusion as cheaply as possible (Breton) [2] / We maintain that the activity of interpreting the world must continue to be linked with the activity of changing the world ... it is the artist's role to study the human problem in depth in all its forms (Breton) -> I think I found the explanation of what the hell is going on with Umineko.
    for some reason, Trotskyists write party newspapers in orange and literature in violet.
    not something I can have any complaints about. I just wish they'd write their newspapers in violet.
  4. Animal Farm 0% speedrun / trying to get the worst ending to Umineko (analogy) -> this is a very specific analogy. it applies to any situation where people are modeling the conflict between Stalin's party and the Trotskyites as some smaller system like a mansion or a farm or maybe a blood-red house where people are being crushed into spheres, respawning, and being made to haul out their previous red spheres. when you give a terrible method for analyzing one of these hypothetical situations which first of all does not even understand how to properly turn Trotskyism into an analogy and second of all is totally failing to give a convincing solution to how the "Trotskyites" within the metaphor can properly overcome the situation they're in, then you are "trying to get the worst ending to Umineko".

Ideologies or fields

  1. pronounced fiction / mystery narratives
  2. pronounced fiction / aristocrat fiction
  3. pronounced fiction / fiction about Japanese history
  4. pronounced fiction / fiction commenting on a historical period
  5. pronounced fiction / allegorical fiction
  6. pronounced M.N. / historical materialism in fiction
  7. pronounced meta-Marxism / meta-Marxism in fiction
  8. pronounced BM / postmodernism

Subpages

  • commentary - my immediate thoughts while reading the work. spoilers on specific story details.
Retrieved from "https://research.moraleconomy.au/index.php?title=Ontology_talk:9k/RD/Q618-UminekoNoNakuKoroNi&oldid=46991"