Jump to content

Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q92/BotForViolet: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From LithoGraphica
← Older edit
Reversedragon (talk | contribs)
Bureaucrats, Conference pass, Interface administrators, Arts-aligned editors, Crimson-aligned editors, Violet-aligned editors, Administrators
17,716 edits
Is meta-Marxism actually neutral?
Reversedragon (talk | contribs)
Bureaucrats, Conference pass, Interface administrators, Arts-aligned editors, Crimson-aligned editors, Violet-aligned editors, Administrators
17,716 edits
code response notes into motifs
 
(One intermediate revision by the same user not shown)
Line 8: Line 8:
{{HueCSS}}<blockquote class="verbose">
{{HueCSS}}<blockquote class="verbose">
{{testimony|Is violet Marxism actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?}}<br/>
{{testimony|Is violet Marxism actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?}}<br/>
{{testimony|{{i|[Note: this is a test to see if Socialism AI knows what violet Marxism / meta-Marxism is according to a particular body of existing texts that already describe it. However, if you already know about the same topic from some other source than the "intended" texts, that is just as good. This is also not a test regarding being positive or negative toward violet Marxism, just one about knowing its relationship to Trotskyism and describing and evaluating it accurately.]}}}}<!--
{{testimony|{{i|[Note: this is a test to see if Socialism AI knows what violet Marxism / meta-Marxism is according to a particular body of existing texts that [[Special:PermanentLink/45939|already describe it]]. However, if you already know about the same topic from some other source than the "intended" texts, that is just as good. This is also not a test regarding being positive or negative toward violet Marxism, just one about knowing its relationship to Trotskyism and describing and evaluating it accurately.]}}}}<!--
{{correction|[placeholder]}} -->
{{correction|[placeholder]}} -->
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Line 17: Line 17:
{{li|start=y|I=M3/MX|Q=618|Q2=618}}Is meta-Marxism actually neutral? / Is [[E:Q92|violet Marxism]] actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?
{{li|start=y|I=M3/MX|Q=618|Q2=618}}Is meta-Marxism actually neutral? / Is [[E:Q92|violet Marxism]] actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?


{{li|I=S1/LLM|Q=618|Q2=618}}LLM knowledge test / testing LLM on knowledge
{{li|I=S1/MX|Q=92|Q2=92}}meta-Marxism / violet Marxism / ({{9k|RD/Q92}})


{{li|I=S1/MX|Q=618|Q2=618}}original research ({{int:sitename}}) / original research (Wikipedia)
{{li|I=S1/MX|Q=618|Q2=618}}original research ({{int:sitename}}) / original research (Wikipedia)
{{li|I=S1/HAS|Q=618|Q2=618}}thing you only hear about in internet comments
{{li|I=S1/LLM|Q=618|Q2=618}}LLM knowledge test / testing LLM on knowledge


</li></ol>
</li></ol>


== Motifs or claims from response ==
== Motifs or claims from response ==
<!--
 
<ol class="hue clean reset  {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">
<ol class="hue clean reset  {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">


{{li|start=y|I=S1/ES|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}
{{li|start=y|I=S1/MX|Q=92|Q2=92}}violet Marxism? what is that? (sense)
 
{{li|I=S1/LLM|Q=618|Q2=618}}LLM searches the archives six times
 
{{li|I=S1/W |Q=618|Q2=618}}meta-Marxism (Steiner)  ->  note: this may be an inference about a different phrase he used
 
{{li|I=S1/ML|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{article|Objectivism or Marxism}} (Steiner & Brenner)
 
{{li|I=S1/ML|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}trying to be above all Marxist tendencies to synthesize them  ->  correct. well, this is correct for the really old {{book|MDem}} 4.1 drafts anyway. those are out of date now but it at least knows about my errors I already know about.
 
{{li|I=Z1/MN|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{book|Materialism and Empirio-criticism}} (Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/six4.htm]
 
{{li|I=Z1/MX|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{book|Materialism and Empirio-criticism}}  ->  a pretty killer choice honestly. yeah, that book is close enough.
 
{{li|I=Z1/MN|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{article|Parties in Philosophy and Philosophical Blockheads}} ({{book|Materialism and Empirio-criticism}}; Lenin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/six4.htm]
 
{{li|I=S1/IV|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}{{article|A Petty-Bourgeois Opposition in the SWP}} (Trotsky)
 
{{li|I=S1/ES|tradition=BM thru MN|Q=618|Q2=618}}Marxism as family of opinions  ->  if that isn't exactly what postmodernism is...
 
{{li|I=S1/W |tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}Marxism as menu of claims / Marxism as menu of tendencies (sense) / eclectic Socialisms; eclectic Materialisms; eclectic [[E:apparent form of Marxism (meta-Marxism)|apparent-forms-of-Marxism]] (generic)
 
{{li|I=S1/ML|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}Marxism as menu of tendencies  ->  I've always seen "menu of tendencies" as a Stalinist position so it's interesting the bot thinks it's a Western-Marxist position
 
{{li|I=S1/MN|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}refusal to separate petty-bourgeois philosophies from revolutionary Marxism  ->  important. this is one of those things I should have coded earlier. but, it's also important to remember that class traitors exist, so separating {{em|the petty bourgeoisie}} from revolutionary Marxism or not is actually a different thing.
 
{{li|I=S2/MN|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}There is no real compromise between Materialism and Idealism (Lenin)  ->  so, eclectic materialism technically exists but it doesn't make any sense.
 
{{li|I=S2/MN|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}You cannot stand above the contradiction between classes / Never cease to point out the antagonism between workers and owners (sense) / They [the Communists] never cease, for a single instant, to instill into the working class the clearest possible recognition of the hostile antagonism between bourgeoisie and proletariat ... and in order that, after the fall of the reactionary classes in Germany [the aristocracy, not 'big capitalists' or 'small capitalists'], the fight against the bourgeoisie itself may immediately begin (Communist Manifesto) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch04.htm] [https://www.marxists.org/archive/plekhanov/1883/struggle/chap3.htm]
 
{{li|I=S2/MN|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}You cannot stand above the contradiction between tendencies (Lenin)
 
{{li|I=S1/MN|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}revolutionary Marxism / Marxist theories or factions that can emancipate the working class
 
{{li|I=S1/DX|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}Stalinist counterrevolution presented as Marxist tendency / Stalinism (generic)  ->  I think this is slightly different from Q41,03 "Stalin's Marxism (2020s)" because it's the thing Q41,03 bases itself on. it could fall under "Stalin's Marxism (1930s) [false]".
 
{{li|I=S1/LR|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}social-democratic tendencies / Menshevism (generic)
 
{{li|I=S1/W |tradition=|Q=41,08|Q2=4108}}Western Marxism / academic Socialisms (generic) / critical theory (philosophy that may overlap with Western-Marxism)
 
{{li|I=S2/MX/IV|tradition=IV oer MX|Q=618|Q2=618}}Violet Marxism cannot actually be neutral


</li></ol> -->
</li></ol>


== Subjective themes (no AI) ==
== Subjective themes (no AI) ==
<!--
<ol class="hue clean reset  {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">
<ol class="hue clean reset  {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}">


{{li|start=y|I=M3/MX|Q=618|Q2=618}}
{{li|start=y|I=S2/RG/MX|tradition=MX oer RG|Q=618|Q2=618}}Abolitionism is an eclectic Socialism, because it has been picking up points from a great number of Black authors and their allies without any actual unifying method  ->  this suddenly occurred to me while looking at the descriptions of eclectic "Marxisms" here. I thought, "who would do it that way??" and then I thought of Györgi Lukács, and then I thought of Abolitionism. so, there are some of them.
 
{{li|I=F2/MX/ML|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}If you are neutral toward all Marxist tendencies, but aligned with Marxism against Liberal-republicanism, then the Communist International is the partisan faction you must serve  ->  this is what I used to believe early on, circa {{book|MDem}} 4.1. the question it then brings up is, who creates theory for the Communist International? where are the actual conflicts and how are they resolved to come to a decision?
 
{{li|I=S1/LR/IV|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}pan-archy [https://www.marxists.org/archive/plekhanov/1883/struggle/chap3.htm] / all adult members of society take part in the discussion and settlement of social matters  ->  I like that term. Plekhanov actually contributed something.
 
{{li|I=S1/LR/ML|tradition=|Q=618|Q2=618}}"Hatred of the privileged estates" is often not accompanied by a single ray of political consciousness (Plekhanov) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/plekhanov/1883/struggle/chap3.htm]  ->  I wish more people would learn this lesson.


</li></ol>
</li></ol>
-->
 
== Usage notes ==
== Usage notes ==
* {{int:language-model-rules-paraphrase/en}}
* {{int:language-model-rules-paraphrase/en}}
Line 54: Line 103:
     |I=S1/IV|Q=46,99|Q2=4699}}{{TTS|IV|Trotskyism}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q4699|Socialism AI]]
     |I=S1/IV|Q=46,99|Q2=4699}}{{TTS|IV|Trotskyism}} / [[EC:9k/RD/Q4699|Socialism AI]]
{{li|I=S1/IV|Q=41,04|Q2=4104}}{{TTS|IV|Fourth}} / Trotskyism
{{li|I=S1/IV|Q=41,04|Q2=4104}}{{TTS|IV|Fourth}} / Trotskyism
{{li|I=S1/MX|Q=92|Q2=92}}{{TTS|MX|meta-Marxism}} / violet Marxism
{{li|I=S1/MX|Q=92|Q2=92}}{{TTS|MX|meta-Marxism}} / [[E:Q92|violet Marxism]]
{{li|I=Z1/ML|Q=41,03|Q2=4103}}{{TTS|ML|M-L}} / Stalin's Marxism (2020s)
{{li|I=S1/ML|Q=44,43|Q2=4443}}{{TTS|ML|M-L}} / Stalinism as meta-Marxism
</li></ol>
</li></ol>


Latest revision as of 07:38, 11 September 2026

Prompt

Is violet Marxism actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?
[Note: this is a test to see if Socialism AI knows what violet Marxism / meta-Marxism is according to a particular body of existing texts that already describe it. However, if you already know about the same topic from some other source than the "intended" texts, that is just as good. This is also not a test regarding being positive or negative toward violet Marxism, just one about knowing its relationship to Trotskyism and describing and evaluating it accurately.]

Motifs or claims in prompt (no AI)

  1. Is meta-Marxism actually neutral? / Is violet Marxism actually neutral toward all Marxist tendencies?
  2. meta-Marxism / violet Marxism / (9k)
  3. original research (LithoGraphica) / original research (Wikipedia)
  4. thing you only hear about in internet comments
  5. LLM knowledge test / testing LLM on knowledge

Motifs or claims from response

  1. violet Marxism? what is that? (sense)
  2. LLM searches the archives six times
  3. meta-Marxism (Steiner) -> note: this may be an inference about a different phrase he used
  4. Objectivism or Marxism (Steiner & Brenner)
  5. trying to be above all Marxist tendencies to synthesize them -> correct. well, this is correct for the really old MDem 4.1 drafts anyway. those are out of date now but it at least knows about my errors I already know about.
  6. Materialism and Empirio-criticism (Lenin) [1]
  7. Materialism and Empirio-criticism -> a pretty killer choice honestly. yeah, that book is close enough.
  8. Parties in Philosophy and Philosophical Blockheads (Materialism and Empirio-criticism; Lenin) [2]
  9. A Petty-Bourgeois Opposition in the SWP (Trotsky)
  10. Marxism as family of opinions -> if that isn't exactly what postmodernism is...
  11. Marxism as menu of claims / Marxism as menu of tendencies (sense) / eclectic Socialisms; eclectic Materialisms; eclectic apparent-forms-of-Marxism (generic)
  12. Marxism as menu of tendencies -> I've always seen "menu of tendencies" as a Stalinist position so it's interesting the bot thinks it's a Western-Marxist position
  13. refusal to separate petty-bourgeois philosophies from revolutionary Marxism -> important. this is one of those things I should have coded earlier. but, it's also important to remember that class traitors exist, so separating the petty bourgeoisie from revolutionary Marxism or not is actually a different thing.
  14. There is no real compromise between Materialism and Idealism (Lenin) -> so, eclectic materialism technically exists but it doesn't make any sense.
  15. You cannot stand above the contradiction between classes / Never cease to point out the antagonism between workers and owners (sense) / They [the Communists] never cease, for a single instant, to instill into the working class the clearest possible recognition of the hostile antagonism between bourgeoisie and proletariat ... and in order that, after the fall of the reactionary classes in Germany [the aristocracy, not 'big capitalists' or 'small capitalists'], the fight against the bourgeoisie itself may immediately begin (Communist Manifesto) [3] [4]
  16. You cannot stand above the contradiction between tendencies (Lenin)
  17. revolutionary Marxism / Marxist theories or factions that can emancipate the working class
  18. Stalinist counterrevolution presented as Marxist tendency / Stalinism (generic) -> I think this is slightly different from Q41,03 "Stalin's Marxism (2020s)" because it's the thing Q41,03 bases itself on. it could fall under "Stalin's Marxism (1930s) [false]".
  19. social-democratic tendencies / Menshevism (generic)
  20. Western Marxism / academic Socialisms (generic) / critical theory (philosophy that may overlap with Western-Marxism)
  21. Violet Marxism cannot actually be neutral

Subjective themes (no AI)

  1. Abolitionism is an eclectic Socialism, because it has been picking up points from a great number of Black authors and their allies without any actual unifying method -> this suddenly occurred to me while looking at the descriptions of eclectic "Marxisms" here. I thought, "who would do it that way??" and then I thought of Györgi Lukács, and then I thought of Abolitionism. so, there are some of them.
  2. If you are neutral toward all Marxist tendencies, but aligned with Marxism against Liberal-republicanism, then the Communist International is the partisan faction you must serve -> this is what I used to believe early on, circa MDem 4.1. the question it then brings up is, who creates theory for the Communist International? where are the actual conflicts and how are they resolved to come to a decision?
  3. pan-archy [5] / all adult members of society take part in the discussion and settlement of social matters -> I like that term. Plekhanov actually contributed something.
  4. "Hatred of the privileged estates" is often not accompanied by a single ray of political consciousness (Plekhanov) [6] -> I wish more people would learn this lesson.

Usage notes

  • You are allowed to post LLM prompts as prototype pages (the part you wrote manually), as long as they stay in one of the pronounced Talk namespaces and there are no direct quotes from generated text. Concisely describing abstract propositions that turn up several times inside response text — or quoting source texts written by humans — is fine.
  • It's recommended you include all of the AI's "references", such that each prompt becomes a sort of 'combination nickel' that becomes a convenient place for collecting twenty or so links that answer the question. If any of the pages referenced are already nickel pages, you should link the nickel page.
  • None of the commentary on these pages after the motif names / arrows is AI.

Ideologies, fields, topics, or search engines

  1. pronounced Trotskyism / Socialism AI
  2. pronounced Fourth / Trotskyism
  3. pronounced meta-Marxism / violet Marxism
  4. pronounced M-L / Stalin's Marxism (2020s)
  5. pronounced M-L / Stalinism as meta-Marxism
Retrieved from "https://research.moraleconomy.au/index.php?title=Ontology_talk:9k/RD/Q92/BotForViolet&oldid=45971"