Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q87,67-DR

Main entry

8767. Q8767/Q87,67 Let it Go [1] (Frozen)
8767. Q8767/Q87,67 Deltarune and Let it Go / Q87,67-DR "Q87-67 DR" -> so... every other time I think about this song (which is more than you'd think) I start thinking about Dess, and every time I think about this song and Dess I then think about this song and Piatya. the movie was a new low for Disney at the time it came out, but now this song has accidentally become, like, some kind of central constant that ties together all facets of the Deltarune universe including Alternate Universes.
8767. Q8767/Q87,67 Deltarune and Let it Go [2] [3] -> it must have been the funniest thing ever to Toby Fox that this song has technically been in a JRPG. even if he only knows of one Kingdom Hearts game he must have at least heard about this once. this song being in a game like this is one of the memeiest things ever to exist.
      also: one of my favorite things about this sequence is that as Elsa says "空へ (pronounced 空へ)", she's in fact walking away from Sora, not to Sora. you'd think that they could have made a deliberate Sora pun with this song somewhere but they didn't.
8767. Q8767/Q87,67 Deltarune and Let it Go -> so here I go diagramming this song for how it describes Deltarune and Auldernet. this whole page is a shit (pronounced censored)post. it's not serious, although it's not completely unserious either.
8767. Q8767/Q87,67 Let it Go [4] (Frozen) -> let's see where should I put this. should I put it next to shadow the hedgehog? wasn't he going on about freedom too? yeah, I warned you this page wasn't serious. Q87,6,7 "Q87-6-7" it is.

Lyric analysis

618. Q618/Q618 A kingdom of isolation / And it looks like I'm the queen -> Dess: this is exactly how I pictured Dess pre- Chapter 5. he dropped out of reality and found a new world of total darkness where he was safe from Carol / The Angel but he was the only one there.
     Piatya: he can free himself from the Thirdists but he'll be utterly alone even if he's correct. [it's painful knowing that in real life this "theme" came up in historical texts as early as 1923; it wasn't a 1938 thing.]
     yeah, that's the entire crux of why making "Trotsky" an ice character felt entirely right. the "Ice Axe" and the reindeer as a prey animal indirectly point to the notion of if Piatya attempts to stick up for himself and his cause he is immediately vulnerable to being thrown out or worse. a snowball in the inferno of trials and suffering.
618. Q618/Q618 真っ白な世界に　ひとりのわたし -> in this version Elsa doesn't even say "snow", she says "a pure-white world", like a blank sheet of paper. you might conceivably find that outside the physical bounds of Hometown. maybe.
     this is why I think there's some credence to the notion of the "white pen of hope" actually being a "page of hope" and crossing over the lake actually being like adding another page after the last page of the book. that's right, in the 'kingdom of isolation' you find the page of hope.
618. Q618/Q618 Don't let them in, don't let them see / Be the good girl you always have to be / Conceal, don't feel, don't let them know /
     Let it go, let it go / Can't hold it back anymore / Let it go, let it go / Turn away and slam the door / I don't care / What they're going to say ... Here I stand / In the light of day / Let the storm rage on / The cold never bothered me anyway ->
     the crux of what the song is about. you can take this as a particular definition of "freedom".
     Dess: trying to hold in the wormwood river / The Roaring, which becomes his freedom.
     Piatya: trying to evade getting killed by the Thirdists.
618. Q618/Q618 You'll never see me cry / 二度と涙は流さないわ -> in context of Deltarune, this one is ominous as hell. if you take it as part of the time period of "that perfect girl", it reads as Carol trying to prevent Dess getting loose and taking control of the Roaring. if you take it as part of the time period of "the storm raging on", it reads as Dess refusing to bow to Carol. in between them is the huge elephant of The Roaring the narrative is repeatedly trying not to mention.
618. Q618/Q618 何も怖くない　風よ吹け -> another one that is a little ominous. "I'm not afraid of anything". Dess? yeah, I imagine he's not!
     I like this lyric though. "I'm not afraid of anything (they'll say) / blow wind (all you want) / it's not cold to me". that is actually a wonderful synergy between the lyrics that wasn't in the original.
618. Q618/Q618 誰にも打ち明けずに -> you know, the phrasing of this matters. in this version Elsa specifically recalls "don't confess it / let it out". in English she does say "don't let them know", but this one is much clearer about the concept of her power being "a secret" you could literally "tell" or "leak".
     Dess missing is a mystery because Dess is convinced he must not let his secret loose.
618. Q618/Q618 このままじゃ　ダメなんだと -> "things weren't okay the way they were".
     this is a little odd lyrically because the main lyric of this song reads as "leave it as it is". things weren't okay as they were so you'll... leave that as it is? though, to be fair, that's kind of exactly how her solution to the problem relates to the story, she doesn't truly solve it by shutting herself up in the ice palace. so maybe that utterly-bizarre choice of lyrics is appropriate.
4314. Q4314/Q43,14 turn away and slam the door / Trotsky doors -> this line. whenever I think about it I can't not just imagine Piatya trying to slam a door and failing at it just like Trotsky did once
618. Q618/Q618 It's funny how some distance / Makes everything seem small / "... seem false" / 悩んでたことが　うそみたいね ->
     Dess: distancing himself from the glass that was once his body in order to recover and/or become stronger. perhaps trying to 'invalidate' a world that doesn't accept him.
     Piatya, Mike: literally hanging out in their respective level of Nowhere watching a century of world history and analyzing it.
618. Q618/Q618 one thought crystallizes like an icy blast -> this makes me think of how objects in Deltarune are apparently formed into physical things by a layer of glass.
618. Q618/Q618 It's time to see what I can do / To test the limits and break through / No right, no wrong, no rules for me / (now I'm free) ->
     Dess: breaking out of the game world, tearing open the sky before the natural game ending can do it.
     Piatya: exploiting water-edge bugs; cutting open reality and making shortcuts with the Ice Axe.
618. Q618/Q618 The wind is howling like this swirling storm inside / Couldn't keep it in, heaven knows I tried! / ... Let it go, let it go / I am one with the wind and sky ... My power flurries through the air into the ground / ありのままで　空へ風に乗って ->
     Revelation: the falling star made rivers with its tears; the lights fell out of the sky.
     Ralsei's prophecy: the sky will run black with fear.
     Dess: rips through the sky, makes the Roaring Knight the roaring night.
618. Q618/Q618 だってもう自由よ　なんでもできる -> "I'm free now, I can do anything".
     Deltarune: do you wonder why Jevil is the first hidden boss? do you wonder that any more?? if I'm not mistaken, I think "なんでもできる" is exactly what Jevil says.
618. Q618/Q618 I'll rise like the break of dawn -> Dess: filling the sky, breaking open the day in a strangely literal way.
     Piatya: snowgrave ending, emerging into the world in the 'dark snowstorm' with faint sun shining through (? that's probably impossible but, you know, impossibly shining through the messed up world like there's just a partial cloud over it), sun of the Fifthist world revolution
618. Q618/Q618 I'm never going back / The past is in the past ->
     Dess: not going to go back and be what Carol wants / not going to go back and be under control of the prophecy
     Piatya: I'm breaking up all of the world's Stalinism and you're never getting it back
618. Q618/Q618 Be the good girl you always have to be ... That perfect girl is gone -> these lines perfectly match my old theory about how Dess fit into the prophecy. it's a little frustrating they match up slightly less well now.
     they don't directly match up with anything having to do with Piatya.
618. Q618/Q618 これでいいの　自分を好きになって / これでいいの　自分信じて -> this version is much less direct, not mentioning a "girl" at all. it just says "I like who I am" / "I believe in myself". here, though, you can begin to see the idea of Deltarune telling the same "identity-finding" story on another layer without it being about gender.
618. Q618/Q618 ありのままの　姿見せるのよ / ありのままの　自分になるの -> "just as it is, show your shape" / "just as it is, become yourself". stronger connotation of Elsa being content with her body, as if her mother body-shamed her for some reason. well, as a girl and as a princess, I guess that could happen, but I don't think that happens in this movie?? very strange choice. I see why Toby Fox started reading a totally new story out of this song now.
     ...ok, actually, watching this video clip again, at the end of it she does entirely change her outfit and let down her hair. I guess the 'appearance shaming' is not implying big details, just little things like clothing choice. sure, okay.
     that actually seems to apply to Deltarune a little bit, there is no evidence Dess was ever getting pushed toward "girl clothes" but you can see them making very specific choices and slowly pushing the envelope to what they want. and they were particularly careless with shoes for unknown reasons. who knows why, Noelle doesn't even have to wear shoes? so it must be some kind of thing of Dess wants specific shoes and they can't have what they want so they just destroy them. and luck out on still having money. it's funny how Noelle and Dess' story is such a story of 'even the bourgeoisie getting tired of capitalism', it makes this whole page feel like it's running on Umineko logic or something. (I won't explain that here, but if you've gotten through the Umineko page you'd get it.)
618. Q618/Q618 高く舞い上がる⋯花咲く氷の結晶のように輝いていたいもう決めたの -> Elsa mentions the image of flowers blooming. "I made up my mind to shine like the flower-blooming ice crystals"
     god. why is that such a "thing that happens in Deltarune"?? comparing Flowery himself to his glass terrarium thing was a thing that happened, suggesting halfway out loud they're both "beautiful" in a way and they can both break into pieces.
618. Q618/Q618 輝いていたいもう決めたの⋯光あびながら歩きだそう -> "decided to shine like ..." / "walk onward shining". lots of shimmering in this song.
     this was one of the first things I noticed before I'd made sense of the whole song. I noticed it and thought, hmm, does that imply particular things in the Japanese language? like does it set up any interesting contrasts between Elsa, Dess, and Ultraman protagonists (who are strongly associated with light in their theme songs)? but I didn't come to any particular conclusions about that. I think this lyric is just... nothing. one of the only lyrics in the song that doesn't say anything interesting.

Kingdom Hearts

618. Q618/Q618 [Goofy voice:] those were just the Heartless -> man does this sound bad out of context. definitely fits with the themes of Undertale and Deltarune
618. Q618/Q618 [Sora:] I won't let her fall to darkness [annoying Larxene voice:] Accepting her power ... is the only way to set her heart free. ... It's her choice to make, not yours
618. Q618/Q618 [Donald Duck voice:] don't tell her what Larxene said -> and why not, mr. "served in the navy because a poster told me to"? this is going to end badly.
618. Q618/Q618 [Anna voice:] one day Elsa just shut me out -> this is totally why Noelle doesn't know Dess is a man or an aspiring god. it just.... happened one day in response to who knows what, about as suddenly as Mettaton started seeing himself in the music performers on TV.
618. Q618/Q618 [Anna voice:] I know you're in there / people are asking where you've been -> ...yeah. but in this case, "in there" is in the hidden Titan world below the Roaring Knight.
618. Q618/Q618 [Anna voice:] just let me in -> this is why the Roaring Knight has a keyhole on it, and why Noelle's house key has been a theme. Dess may or may not have locked her out of the house but either way that's what the analogy is.
618. Q618/Q618 [Anna voice:] we'll just put him back together -> this 100% happens to somebody in Deltarune. somebody uses glass-crafting powers to put together a character that should be dead. I'm just not sure if it is Dess or it's done by Dess.
     it could be Ralsei. it could be Dess putting Ralsei back together after he has to die in the last chapter.
618. Q618/Q618 [Anna voice:] you kind of set off an eternal winter... everywhere -> well gee! that sure sounds like something somebody named December would do!
     but Elsa "doesn't know how to unfreeze it", just like Dess doesn't seem to know how to actually stop the Roaring.
618. Q618/Q618 you colored us in with care -> after first turning her into an ice statue by accident, Elsa "colors back in" Anna with "true love". this whole sequence of events may happen in Deltarune but I have no idea in what way it will happen. things do not look good for Noelle. but it also could be Kris or Ralsei that's the target? or it could be Susie taking the blow, given how the chapter she made her own fountain in was the chapter with all the statues in it, and the chapter where she punched a glass window that Ralsei was afraid of the contents of. the original target is the most interesting question to me, though. will Dess really turn Noelle into a statue? why? or would it be Carol that gets turned into a statue? is that what all the Asgore bothering Toriel stuff is leading up to?
     or.... is it actually that Ralsei can be sacrificed to resurrect one of the statue people? it would seem to fit better with "love finds its way to the girl". but honestly, I think that would be less interesting than Dess just having glass-crafting powers. making a character that powerful puts steep constraints on making the story good, but it would be more interesting lore, dammit (pronounced censored).
618. Q618/Q618 I know you're in there / [Sora voice:] it's just like when Riku disappeared -> yeah.
     Toby must have had a very interesting day one day when he suddenly realized that Elsa's song was a microcosm of all of Kingdom Hearts including Roxas and Kairi and Sora's "imaginary friends" he refuses to let go of that are people made out of other actual people and all that. I doubt he had a dream actually mentioning or recreating Sora visiting the Frozen world, but it probably helped fill in the missing gaps not covered by the dream.

Related

8776. Q8776/Q87,76 This is who I am (song) [5] / wasn't shadow the hedgehog going on about freedom too? (generic) / (9k) -> yes it was this one. I remembered that right. it's actually a lot like this song, funny enough, although the framing of it is different.
618. Q618/Q618 ice palace / kingdom of isolation -> ok can I just say?? I am super glad Auldernet exists (or half-exists in its unfinished state) because otherwise this stuff could make me go crazy.
     Elsa isn't just another Disney princess. she is truly and completely relatable. her predicament is one of the most relatable to society as a whole, even across a large portion of the world. Elsa's story all by itself might even turn out to be better than Knights of Guinevere. and you might laugh when I say any of that. but when you superimpose Elsa's overall story told in this song on top of Deltarune, some really surprising stuff emerges.
     why does Elsa's story have any power at all? because of the concept of "I fear talking to people and I can't go back and spill the problem or people will get mad". that problem is omnipresent across the United States and to a smaller extent across the planet. in fiction, like in an MLP episode or a Disney movie, characters just talk things out. but people don't do that in real life. whether you're gay or transgender, or you're an environmentalist, or you don't hate immigrants and Black people with a passion for one brown person having committed a single crime one day, or you're tired of copyright and stories perpetually revolving around individual storypeople that own them instead of death-of-the-author being possible, or you're tired of large corporations controlling their products so tightly that non-commodified analysis of art gets muted or deleted while everyone says 'they were in their rights to do it :)' when Congress letting copyright and the DMCA be a law should be literally actually unconstitutional in the United States, or you're tired of the Chinese government ordering around the Chinese people to please the United States just so the United States doesn't attack China, or you're tired of trade unions giving up part way through, or you're tired of Stalinists not wanting to properly resolve the conflict between socialism in one country and worldwide revolution that was never really resolved in favor of clearly explaining the Soviet Union and establishing one correct unifying model... everyone's carrying something. almost everyone's carrying something they're genuinely afraid to say even though they know they're right and the world might even be a better place if they spoke up. but they can't speak up because it would damage the relationships around them that are their only means of actually acting on the world. if you speak up about what you need and what's right or correct, you get excised from the world and your unique power or insight sent to a "kingdom of isolation". like Elsa going up to the remote ice mountain and building an ice palace, or Dess excising themself from the world to go to the "Titan world" / Nowhere and leave the gaping hole in reality that is the Roaring Knight. this is very real and very annoying. for just a small example: if you want to present Marxist concepts on YouTube through metatransitional literature or such (not that this is changing the world or anything, as opposed to an activity you might want to do for its own sake) you first have to make effort to "look like a normal person" by doing lots of stuff unrelated to Communism that it can be buried under and almost pretending to be okay with every part of capitalism and bourgeois rule in order to be recognized as a Real Human and not A Monster That Will Hurt Me And Deserves No Friends and actually get listened to. even if you genuinely don't "care" what people "are going to say" you have to worry about stuff like not turning on ads and keeping demonetization on lest YouTube figure out your house address from your credit card and then report you to ICE or somebody when and if it's suspected you're part of a real actual workers' movement that isn't a fake movement made of Rothenbergs inside bourgeois academia spouting out postmodernism. your physical body and your thoughts can never be seen in the same room if you even want to stay alive long enough to be protected by the constitution.
     yeah. in a capitalist world, speaking is inherently dangerous. no constitution made by mortal humans is actually capable of protecting the ability to speak. because what you say and how possible it is to credit 'to you' instead of 'to nobody at all' quickly determines whether you get to survive, have friends, be part of society, and be "physically real". "anarchy" and "decentralization" can't solve this, because all attempts at anarchism also contain this problem embedded inside them. that's one of the few parts of Foucault that's technically correct, the part where all relationships between humans contain power including relationships between humans who call themselves anarchists.
     now, back to Elsa. Elsa and Noelle and Dess are all excised from their world by the danger of speaking up. Noelle is afraid she might face consequences from her strict mother for doing the wrong thing (although Carol seems to be changing since Dess left and that might not be true), Dess just wants a lot more power and freedom than they have. what is the top thing actually stopping Noelle and Dess from speaking and existing in society the way they want to? well, that's actually been identified as God. in Chapter 5, you can see it softly confirmed that nobody in Hometown actually hates gay or transgender people except The Angel, the one entity with the inexplicable need to keep lesbians from being happy. Noelle cannot come out as a lesbian or she will be punished by God. likewise, the way the Weird Route is going, I'm sure that if the game reveals Dess is a trans man in Chapter 7 you will have to kill him. if Dess comes out as trans he will be punished by God. these two characters cannot "let it go" and wrap things up neatly like in an MLP or Arthur episode or they will face dire consequences. but now we can get to the real kicker here. what is God? who created God? what is the purpose of God? in the real world, God is created by the overall socially-linked population of bourgeoisie spanning from North America to South America to Europe to Australia to Taiwan in order to present the narrative that this population of people are the Good People and anyone who makes that group of Good People upset or afraid are the Bad People that actually need to be driven out of their country with embargoes on oil and food and attacked with apocalyptic forest-destroying weapons and fed poisoned clams. just read the book of Revelation and you'll quickly understand how this operates — countries that survive are Good Races, countries that go down in plagues are Bad Races being punished by God, no matter how senseless and amoral those plagues actually are on the ground in reality, and when two Good Races link together such that other nations are totally going to die trying to oppose them it proves they're Good Races. the bible gives an utterly social-darwinist description of the world's people-groups and it starts implying racism far quicker than you'd think it does. it's really disgusting. if religion were "real" I would have to be against the bible just because anyone who champions the Book of Revelation would actually be going to Hell. okay uh, yeah. I ranted too much. Elsa.
     God is created by the overall socially-linked population of bourgeoisie as part of the overall process of generating bourgeois ideology. so if Noelle lived on earth, then the one top thing "locking her in a kingdom of isolation" is bourgeois class rule. that is what she cannot speak up against. that is what everybody cannot speak up against.
     Frozen, despite not putting a genuine sense of danger for Elsa on screen, managed to squeak by and create a decent narrative just by making sure Let it Go was the only part of the story anyone remembered, as if Elsa is perpetually stuck in her "kingdom of isolation" and still hasn't gotten out. however accidental that was, it manages to make the story deeply resonate.
     Frozen almost makes an error by finishing itself and giving itself an end, because the ending it gives is wrong. you can't actually overcome the fear of being punished for opening up just by willing that other people choose to be nice like you've got the Dragon Balls in your hand and you made a wish to change other people's entire being. let me tell you, if Trotsky could have done that capitalism would be fucking (pronounced censored) over. however, if you could somehow guess under exactly what conditions each person would join groups of other people that would then join other people who all individually trust the people next to them and guess the shape of the entire chain of people all the way up to a large enough group of people to defeat the whole worldwide population of people who don't want anyone opening up about anything, and you could even guess all that approximately, then you might be able to succeed. (wow, that was a mouthful.)
618. Q618/Q618 Kingdom Hearts III -> how does Kingdom Hearts do with conveying that concept? Kingdom Hearts has its own unique "Book of Revelation"-style model where large populations of Good and Evil can form. (but there are two kinds of monsters, not just one??) there's a big heart in the sky that the army of Evil can use to trap everyone in Kingdom Hearts and I don't really understand most of the details of all of it, I admit, but I think Sora is sort of just trying to stop anything interesting from happening and keep everyone "free" and keep the world the same because only Evil events ever happen — from what I understand so far? I could be wrong on that. there are so many games and I haven't gone all the way through any of them. like is it just me or is Sora stuck in the 1950s? it's like the Kingdom Hearts cosmos cannot remotely dream of all the worlds being connected even though it's not like real space travel and you can travel between them; national populations are surely self-contained and only an evil empire with the need to have power over them would dream of connecting them, hence the odd injection of Star Wars imagery, watch Gameoverse get overshadowed by the Kingdom Hearts anime because it turns out to be another narrative about larger-scale forces fighting over smaller self-contained worlds but better. you'll notice there's a funny irony in Star Wars style narratives in that they act like global empire is impossible and has never happened although it's already happened and First World countries already did it.
     wow no wonder I created a Deltarune AU that's stuck in 1950. that wasn't just me and the "Marxism" I'd been fed online. Kingdom Hearts was already doing that same thing from the other side and seems to have factored into Deltarune's conception of time and history with its whole idea of "The Empire hasn't happened, let's not let anything happen" and Elsa turning sort-of-Norway into a seemingly-endless December. [6] it might well have been the most Kingdom Hearts / Deltarune style thing I could have done. if I'm not getting any of that Kingdom Hearts lore wrong, of course.
618. Q618/Q618 ice palace -> I've changed my mind about Elsa. I used to not really have a favorite Disney princess but honestly? she's the only good one. Kingdom Hearts did not really do this narrative idea justice though as far as I know.
618. Q618/Q618 ice palace (metaphor) / kingdom of isolation (metaphor) -> appears in: Frozen, Kingdom Hearts, Deltarune
618. Q618/Q618 you colored us in with care -> ("Auldernet spoilers" below)
618. Q618/Q618 you colored us in with care -> honestly though. honestly. spoiler: Piatya being set up to have to un-statue Sunderkov and learn mercy because that is a theme culturally accepted by most people in the Auldernet world across the Near Side and the Far Side. and then he doesn't. that concept is so indescribably funny. you would have to know the entire context of how Undertale and Deltarune work so far to have any idea why it entirely makes sense for the theme of mercy to be further elaborated and even given nuances and complications as Deltarune shifts over to Auldernet... it's very logical for it to be the conclusion of everything. spoiler: and then we just, rug pull, screw all of that, it stops here. it's like, introducing Pokémon Types and then adding more Types as the game goes on and becoming comfortable with all of them and then the ultimate joke to put in the game that is funnier than anything else could be is a climactic event that just makes your Pokémon look typeless and throws the whole concept of Types down to their visuals and all their symbolism in the trash deconstructing what Pokémon even are — even if Types come back again shortly after as they inevitably will. it's like this ultimate test of whether you were paying attention and thinking instead of just coasting.
     ok, I'm spoilering this passage in case I do that. if I write fics which actually cover all the endings of Auldernet and they actually get done, read them first before you read this. or, I'll attempt to come back and remove the spoiler later if it doesn't apply.

Ideologies, topics, or genres

618. Q618/Q618 Fy (pronounced Fantasy) / Disney princess movies
618. Q618/Q618 Fy (pronounced Fantasy) / Frozen
618. Q618/Q618 Fy (pronounced Fantasy) / Kingdom Hearts (series)
618. Q618/Q618 Fy (pronounced Fantasy) / Kingdom Hearts III
7617. Q7617/Q76,17 UTDR (pronounced U.T-D.R.) / Deltarune
6912. Q6912/Q69,12 UTDR (pronounced U.T-D.R.) / Dess
618. Q618/Q618 AULD (pronounced Auld) / Auldernet
618. Q618/Q618 AULD (pronounced Auld) / Piatya Holiday

Wavebuilder combinations

[P] (pronounced P:) Wavebuilder (pronounced Wave-builder): forms result [Item]

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along with [Item]

?? (📥 (pronounced proposed) / Fy)1:-1:-1

forming from [Item]

?? (📥 (pronounced proposed) / Fy)1:-1:-1

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