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m Reversedragon moved page Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q4111 to Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q4,1,1,1: Entity number or thesis portal structure was not final
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16,117 edits
m class traitor from Trotskyism
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{{li|I=Z1/ES|Q=618  |Q2=618 }}International 4.2.1.1 / International Socialist Tendency (IST; 1977) / International Socialist Organization (generic; name of sections)  ->  this one was a little hard to place but I'm trying to place it next to the Militant Tendency pre- forming the CWI according to its ideology and its position as a second right opposition to the RCP.
{{li|I=Z1/ES|Q=618  |Q2=618 }}International 4.2.1.1 / International Socialist Tendency (IST; 1977) / International Socialist Organization (generic; name of sections)  ->  this one was a little hard to place but I'm trying to place it next to the Militant Tendency pre- forming the CWI according to its ideology and its position as a second right opposition to the RCP.


{{li|I=Z1/DX|Q=618  |Q2=618 }}International 4.2.2 / Committee for a Workers' International (CWI)  ->  after largely screwing things up, Ted Grant finally figures out that he shouldn't work with Pabloism and founds an organization that is marginally better than his previous ones but still questionable.
{{li|I=Z1/DX|Q=46,09|Q2=4609}}International 4.2.2 / Committee for a Workers' International (CWI)  ->  after largely screwing things up, Ted Grant finally figures out that he shouldn't work with Pabloism and founds an organization that is marginally better than his previous ones but still questionable.


{{li|I=Z1/IV|Q=618  |Q2=618 }}International 4.2.2.1 / International Marxist Tendency (IMT) ; Revolutionary Communist International (RCI)  ->  this organization is one big contradiction because I had been listening to their talks and what they say is completely different from what Ted Grant apparently did. because of that ambiguity I tentatively mark them orange.
{{li|I=Z1/IV|Q=618  |Q2=618 }}International 4.2.2.1 / International Marxist Tendency (IMT) ; Revolutionary Communist International (RCI)  ->  this organization is one big contradiction because I had been listening to their talks and what they say is completely different from what Ted Grant apparently did. because of that ambiguity I tentatively mark them orange.
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{{li|start=y|I=S2/ML|Q=618}}Hugo Chavez is an opportunist (Communist Party of Venezuela) [https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5640/]  ->  both the PCV and the Trotskyists make interesting points and I really don't know who's right
{{li|start=y|I=S2/ML|Q=618}}Hugo Chavez is an opportunist (Communist Party of Venezuela) [https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5640/]  ->  both the PCV and the Trotskyists make interesting points and I really don't know who's right


{{li|I=Z1/IV|Q=46,09|Q2=4609}}Committee for a Workers' International (defunct) / CWI (attempted International)
</li><li class="field_exstruct" data-tradition="ES onto Zv, PT onto Zv" value="618" data-dimension="S">class traitor from Trotskyism  ->  the motif of generally bourgeois/[[E:Careerist layer (meta-Marxism)|Careerist]] people who drop out of Trotskyism and almost inevitably turn blue or brown.<br />
the big question is, why do they do this. what new structure are they being put into and what is appealing to them about the new structure? and I would hazard a guess the new structure is "one big disorganized Filament of socially-linked Friends pouring across multiple countries with Pete standing behind it with a wad of money". that's it. friendship is lethal. 'the tangle' looks more like popular descriptions of Trotskyism than anything Trotskyist theorists have been able to create themselves, so they get sucked into it like a vortex. and then they all have to accept that Pete's life matters to events on earth but none of the million Friends Linked Together he supports actually matter, doesn't matter if they're dead as long as another group of socially-linked friends dies and Pete's group wins.<br />
George Orwell - case of - class traitor from Trotskyism


</li></ol>
</li></ol>

Revision as of 07:13, 28 June 2026

Main entry

  1. Hugo Chavez and the fifth International [1] -> this sounds more like a second international to me, International Two-point-Two. but at least it's something.

  2. versioning Communist Internationals like software packages

    -> this is partly a joke but also at least 30% serious. if we're looking at something that's optional rather than centrally standardized, I honestly think it would make stuff like splits in Trotskyism way easier to follow if every single Trotskyist international had a specific number. I know that would probably get a little ridiculous at some point, like "4.2.3.1.5". but even that would be an improvement, I mean in chemistry there are these big long IUPAC names that are super hard to remember but are effective at condensing what are basically pictures or complicated undirected graphs into text form; it would have a similar function to that. I want to make a page of unofficial point versions for every "communist International" (that's been important, at least), both the long and unwieldy way, and maybe also a shorter way where the branched Internationals are just listed in order so you have "International 4-25", etc.

    one thing I'm sure of about this: there actually is an objective way to order some of these, you just record the date they were founded and order them by date, and for the ones that have distinct dates you don't have to worry too deeply about which party was better. beyond that, if two form at the same time, I think you favor groups that still exist versus groups that stopped existing, and you favor groups that stay the closest to the 'best' version of Marxism that they either don't oppose or are the closest to not opposing, mostly limited to Stalin's Marxism / Hoxhaism, and Trotskyism. that actually becomes comically easy for a second international, because you'll be able to tell very quickly which ones vaguely resemble Marxism at all and which ones absolutely don't.

First internationals

  1. International 1.0 / First International

Second internationals

  1. International 2.0 / Second International
  2. Hugo Chavez and the fifth International

Third internationals

  1. International 3.0 / Third International / Communist International / comintern
  2. Organization 3.1.1 — Communist Party of the Soviet Union / Bolshevik Party (generic)
  3. Organization 3.1.2 — Communist Party of Albania
  4. Organization 3.2.1 — Communist Party of China -> the parties that became Dengist are being marked strawberry here to reflect what they did later
  5. Organization 3.2.2 — Workers' Party of Korea -> a subset of Dengism but in practice part of it
  6. Organization 3.2.3 — Communist Party of Vietnam
  7. Organization 3.2.4 — Communist Party of Cuba
  8. Organization 3.3.?? — Workers' International League -> singled out by Trotsky as nationally-focused, but in practice worse than Dengist parties, so I made it blue. the WIL devolved into an entryist party with no strategy against bourgeois leaders, and then merged with Pabloism to become the USFI.
    I'm not sure if this should be under "Second Internationals" or not.

Fourth internationals

  1. International 4.0 / Fourth International (1938) -> became: Q46,01 International Secretariat, Q46,02 International Committee
  2. International 4.1 / International Committee (1953) / ICFI (attempted International) / Cannonism (generic)
  3. International 4.2 / International Secretariat (1953) / ISFI (attempted International) / Pabloism (generic)

International 4.1, ICFI

  1. International 4.1 / International Committee (1953) / ICFI (attempted International) / Cannonism (generic)
  2. Organization 4.1.1 — Socialist Workers' Party (US) -> led to forming RCP, below.
  3. Organization 4.1.0 — Revolutionary Communist Party (UK) -> Cannonists' attempt to salvage British movements. a step forward but one that did not succeed.
  4. Socialist Equality Party (generic; name of sections)

International 4.2, USFI

  1. International 4.2.1 / International Secretariat (1953) / ISFI (attempted International) / Pabloism (generic) -> joined with Grant to form USFI, below
  2. International 4.2.0 / United Secretariat (USFI)
  3. International 4.2.1.1 / International Socialist Tendency (IST; 1977) / International Socialist Organization (generic; name of sections) -> this one was a little hard to place but I'm trying to place it next to the Militant Tendency pre- forming the CWI according to its ideology and its position as a second right opposition to the RCP.
  4. International 4.2.2 / Committee for a Workers' International (CWI) -> after largely screwing things up, Ted Grant finally figures out that he shouldn't work with Pabloism and founds an organization that is marginally better than his previous ones but still questionable.
  5. International 4.2.2.1 / International Marxist Tendency (IMT) ; Revolutionary Communist International (RCI) -> this organization is one big contradiction because I had been listening to their talks and what they say is completely different from what Ted Grant apparently did. because of that ambiguity I tentatively mark them orange.

Related

  1. Hugo Chavez is an opportunist (Communist Party of Venezuela) [2] -> both the PCV and the Trotskyists make interesting points and I really don't know who's right
  2. class traitor from Trotskyism -> the motif of generally bourgeois/Careerist people who drop out of Trotskyism and almost inevitably turn blue or brown.
    the big question is, why do they do this. what new structure are they being put into and what is appealing to them about the new structure? and I would hazard a guess the new structure is "one big disorganized Filament of socially-linked Friends pouring across multiple countries with Pete standing behind it with a wad of money". that's it. friendship is lethal. 'the tangle' looks more like popular descriptions of Trotskyism than anything Trotskyist theorists have been able to create themselves, so they get sucked into it like a vortex. and then they all have to accept that Pete's life matters to events on earth but none of the million Friends Linked Together he supports actually matter, doesn't matter if they're dead as long as another group of socially-linked friends dies and Pete's group wins.
    George Orwell - case of - class traitor from Trotskyism

Ideologies or fields

  • (none)
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