Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q43,92: Difference between revisions
Meet the petty bourgeoisie with cannons (Marx) |
Set up November beneath February (Marx) |
||
| Line 12: | Line 12: | ||
<ol class="hue clean {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}"> | <ol class="hue clean {{int:hue-ixn-classname-ML}}"> | ||
{{li|start=y|I=S2/MN|Q=18,46|Q2=1846|h4= France and Germany together }} (1847) / The workers' revolutions in France and Germany will not be independent, but will build off each other (Marx 1847) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm] / Their battle-cry must be permanent revolution (Marx; generic) -><br/> | {{li|start=y|I=S2/MN|Q=618|Q2=618}}Set up November below February (Marx) / Set up November beneath February / Menace February with November / Set up the workers' government (November revolution; workers' revolution) alongside the newly created bourgeois government (February revolution; bourgeois revolution against feudal order) so the new bourgeois government is not allowed to betray the workers / Alongside the new official governments they must simultaneously establish their own revolutionary workers' governments ... so that the bourgeois-democratic governments not only immediately lose the support of the workers but find themselves from the very beginning supervised and threatened by authorities behind which stand the whole mass of the workers (Marx) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm] | ||
{{li|I=S2/MN|Q=18,46|Q2=1846|h4= France and Germany together }} (1847) / The workers' revolutions in France and Germany will not be independent, but will build off each other (Marx 1847) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm] / Their battle-cry must be permanent revolution (Marx; generic) -><br/> | |||
it didn't really go that way, did it? it was more like, Eastern Europe and Germany together behind the Soviet Union, with both of them coming out as flawed messes in different ways. | it didn't really go that way, did it? it was more like, Eastern Europe and Germany together behind the Soviet Union, with both of them coming out as flawed messes in different ways. | ||
{{li|I=S2/MX|Q= | {{li|I=S2/MX|Q=618|Q2=618}}Marx's strategy for transforming Germany sounded more like Trotskyism than it did like Deng Xiaoping Thought -> the first plank if you want to defeat "Marx believed in co-op theory" / "Marx believed in Menshevism". China and Vietnam are each going through slow transformations. Marx describes a quick and thorough process of removing all the upper classes and handing each property structure to the emerging workers' state instead of managing the same thing in any way it was before. [https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm] there's none of this "we have to compromise between the three classes of China / Korea" stuff where Mao accidentally (?) recreates the medieval estate system. | ||
{{li|I=S2/MN|Q=618|Q2=618}}Meet the liquidators with cannons (Marx) / Meet the petty bourgeoisie with cannons / [D]uring and immediately after the struggle the workers, as far as it is at all possible, must oppose bourgeois attempts at pacification and force the democrats to carry out their terroristic phrases. ... the immediate revolutionary excitement ... must be sustained as long as possible. Far from opposing the so-called excesses — instances of popular vengeance against hated individuals or against public buildings with which hateful memories are associated — the workers' party must not only tolerate these actions but must even give them direction. ... To be able forcefully and threateningly to oppose this party, whose betrayal of the workers will begin with the very first hour of victory ... the whole proletariat must be armed at once with muskets, rifles, cannon and ammunition, and the revival of the old-style citizens' militia, directed against the workers, must be opposed -><br/> | {{li|I=S2/MN|Q=618|Q2=618}}Meet the liquidators with cannons (Marx) / Meet the petty bourgeoisie with cannons / [D]uring and immediately after the struggle the workers, as far as it is at all possible, must oppose bourgeois attempts at pacification and force the democrats to carry out their terroristic phrases. ... the immediate revolutionary excitement ... must be sustained as long as possible. Far from opposing the so-called excesses — instances of popular vengeance against hated individuals or against public buildings with which hateful memories are associated — the workers' party must not only tolerate these actions but must even give them direction. ... To be able forcefully and threateningly to oppose this party, whose betrayal of the workers will begin with the very first hour of victory ... the whole proletariat must be armed at once with muskets, rifles, cannon and ammunition, and the revival of the old-style citizens' militia, directed against the workers, must be opposed -><br/> | ||
Revision as of 09:27, 29 August 2026
Main entry
- permanent revolution (Trotskyism) / international permanent revolution (meta-Marxism onto Stalin's Marxism) / worldwide revolution
- nationalism (George Orwell) / (9k) -> I put permanent revolution next to this one, because it is an absolutely delicious refutation of what Orwell was ranting about and tried to depict in 1984.
Marx and worldwide revolution
- Set up November below February (Marx) / Set up November beneath February / Menace February with November / Set up the workers' government (November revolution; workers' revolution) alongside the newly created bourgeois government (February revolution; bourgeois revolution against feudal order) so the new bourgeois government is not allowed to betray the workers / Alongside the new official governments they must simultaneously establish their own revolutionary workers' governments ... so that the bourgeois-democratic governments not only immediately lose the support of the workers but find themselves from the very beginning supervised and threatened by authorities behind which stand the whole mass of the workers (Marx) [1]
France and Germany together
(1847) / The workers' revolutions in France and Germany will not be independent, but will build off each other (Marx 1847) [2] / Their battle-cry must be permanent revolution (Marx; generic) ->
it didn't really go that way, did it? it was more like, Eastern Europe and Germany together behind the Soviet Union, with both of them coming out as flawed messes in different ways.
- Marx's strategy for transforming Germany sounded more like Trotskyism than it did like Deng Xiaoping Thought -> the first plank if you want to defeat "Marx believed in co-op theory" / "Marx believed in Menshevism". China and Vietnam are each going through slow transformations. Marx describes a quick and thorough process of removing all the upper classes and handing each property structure to the emerging workers' state instead of managing the same thing in any way it was before. [3] there's none of this "we have to compromise between the three classes of China / Korea" stuff where Mao accidentally (?) recreates the medieval estate system.
- Meet the liquidators with cannons (Marx) / Meet the petty bourgeoisie with cannons / [D]uring and immediately after the struggle the workers, as far as it is at all possible, must oppose bourgeois attempts at pacification and force the democrats to carry out their terroristic phrases. ... the immediate revolutionary excitement ... must be sustained as long as possible. Far from opposing the so-called excesses — instances of popular vengeance against hated individuals or against public buildings with which hateful memories are associated — the workers' party must not only tolerate these actions but must even give them direction. ... To be able forcefully and threateningly to oppose this party, whose betrayal of the workers will begin with the very first hour of victory ... the whole proletariat must be armed at once with muskets, rifles, cannon and ammunition, and the revival of the old-style citizens' militia, directed against the workers, must be opposed ->
well that's a surprisingly violent passage from Marx. to be fair though, he thought that some time between 1847 and 1861 there was going to very seriously be a Communist revolution across Europe. so it's not just phrases where he's valuing violence as some kind of abstract concept (a thing that Leninist theorists generally haven't done, but that Liberal-republicans constantly need clarification about), it was a prediction of what he thought would actually happen relatively soon.
the takeaway: Marx was no fan of "ink brush socialism" where you try to justify three classes being equally valid. what he said was to the extent the older classes use their ability to call for peace to rule over everyone you simply have to suppress them beneath the workers' government, and all the workers oppose them with guns if it comes to that. you do have to give him credit for being so clear there; I feel like even Lenin wasn't always as clear as that. Trotsky on the other hand, I can see the resemblance.
Related
Stalinists were a counterrevolution
/ Stalinism begins when older forms of society crush the proletarian revolution; this is to imply it is similar to when the Jacobins were defeated in the French Revolution / (9k)
Ideologies or fields
- / early Marxism
- / Trotskyism
- / Trotskyism as meta-Marxism