User:RD/9k/Q618-AIParadoxDignum: Difference between revisions
LLMs lack the capacity for courage, honesty, and empathy |
tin man (existential materialism) / combinations |
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{{li|start=y|I=S2/LLM/HAS|Q=618|ww=AIParadoxDignum|pp=2}}Humans possess moral and ethical discernment -> I think that statement is actually worth doubting. maybe morality is an illusion and we're all just as bad at it as an AI. | {{li|start=y|I=S2/LLM/HAS|Q=618|ww=AIParadoxDignum|pp=2}}Humans possess moral and ethical discernment -> I think that statement is actually worth doubting. maybe morality is an illusion and we're all just as bad at it as an AI. | ||
{{li|I=F2/LLM/HAS|Q=618}}Inanimate objects lack the capacity for courage, honesty, and empathy | {{li|I=F2/LLM/HAS|Q=618}}Inanimate objects lack the capacity for courage, honesty, and empathy / Inanimate objects have no courage / Inanimate objects have no honesty / Inanimate objects have no empathy | ||
{{li|I=S2/LLM/HAS|Q=618|ww=AIParadoxDignum|pp=2}}LLMs lack the capacity for courage, honesty, and empathy -> this one is... odd. it really depends on what you define virtues and moral actions {{em|to be}}. like, there are going to be some moments where we could pull out "wizard of oz" definitions and say that even if a particular object "doesn't have a heart" it still produced results that were consistent with courage, honesty, or empathy, and deserves the Wizard's medal or diploma.<br/> | {{li|I=S2/LLM/HAS|Q=618|ww=AIParadoxDignum|pp=2}}LLMs lack the capacity for courage, honesty, and empathy -> this one is... odd. it really depends on what you define virtues and moral actions {{em|to be}}. like, there are going to be some moments where we could pull out "wizard of oz" definitions and say that even if a particular object "doesn't have a heart" it still produced results that were consistent with courage, honesty, or empathy, and deserves the Wizard's medal or diploma.<br/> | ||
let's shift the discussion over from LLMs to different kinds of inanimate objects, like political parties. a political party as a whole is inanimate; it doesn't have a unique new mind of its own. this is why Marxists speak of political parties as "superstructural" within the "base-to-superstructure" process — as a whole object, a political party is an inanimate object generated out of a group of living beings based partly on their [[E:shovel dream (meta-Marxism)|distorted experiences of being in that object]], warped by [[E:shovel (meta-Marxism)|the shape of the object they're making]] as they're in the process of making it. but although a political party is inanimate, we want it to have good values and make good decisions. if a political party makes good decisions, we consider it to have done a good thing much as we do an individual person. so do you really have to be human to have courage, honesty, or empathy? I genuinely doubt it. if Che Guevara is out there with a band of rebels trying to take back a country for the peasants, the group as a whole is inanimate, but it's hard not to say it has courage. | let's shift the discussion over from LLMs to different kinds of inanimate objects, like political parties. a political party as a whole is inanimate; it doesn't have a unique new mind of its own. this is why Marxists speak of political parties as "superstructural" within the "base-to-superstructure" process — as a whole object, a political party is an inanimate object generated out of a group of living beings based partly on their [[E:shovel dream (meta-Marxism)|distorted experiences of being in that object]], warped by [[E:shovel (meta-Marxism)|the shape of the object they're making]] as they're in the process of making it. but although a political party is inanimate, we want it to have good values and make good decisions. if a political party makes good decisions, we consider it to have done a good thing much as we do an individual person. so do you really have to be human to have courage, honesty, or empathy? I genuinely doubt it. if Che Guevara is out there with a band of rebels trying to take back a country for the peasants, the group as a whole is inanimate, but it's hard not to say it has courage. | ||
</li></ol> | </li></ol> | ||
== Subjective themes == | == Subjective themes == | ||
<ol class="hue clean"> | <ol class="hue clean"> | ||
</li></ol | |||
{{li|start=y|I=S1/MX|tradition=MX onto LLM, MX onto HAS|Q=618|Q2=618}}tin man (machine learning; existential materialism) -> the motif of an inanimate object lacking the characteristics of humans that it would normally need in order to properly carry out morally Right actions {{em|per se}}, which nonetheless manages to create results which are hard to deny as being moral or virtuous.<br/> | |||
the Cowardly Lion has no courage, the wizard awards him a medal. the Scarecrow has no brain, the wizard awards him a diploma. the Tin Man has no heart, he gets awarded basically a heart pillow which does nothing a heart does and has no feelings. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_Woodman] {{YouTube|u_6S1N5RZrk}} {{YouTube|_iRpd6PgdLI}} the three keep wanting something that supposedly gives them the ability to do something, but turn out to be better at that thing than they think they are while the Wizard can't make them any better at it.<br/> | |||
the Tin Man is a cyborg in the original book actually, made out of an ordinary woodman. but shhh that's not important to the metaphor don't remember it, it's only about whether he gets his award | |||
</li></ol> | |||
== Related ==<!-- | == Related ==<!-- | ||
<ol class="hue clean"> | <ol class="hue clean"> | ||
</li></ol>--> | </li></ol>--> | ||
== Wavebuilder combinations == | == Wavebuilder combinations == | ||
<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three"> | <dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three"> | ||
{{WaveBuild| | {{WaveBuild| {{E:Q618/HAS|Inanimate objects have no courage}} | {{E:Q618/ML|Che Guevara}} | {{E:Q618/ML|Communist parties are inanimate objects with courage}} }} | ||
{{WaveBuild| {{E:Q618/HAS|Inanimate objects have no courage}} | {{E:Q618/ML|Strikes are acts of courage}} | {{E:Q618/ML|Unions are inanimate with courage}} }} | |||
{{WaveBuild| {{E:Q618/HAS|Inanimate objects have no empathy}} | {{E:Q618/ML|Communist parties are inanimate with courage}} | {{E:Q618/MX|tin man (existential materialism)}} }} | |||
</dl> | </dl> | ||
== Ideology codes == | == Ideology codes == | ||
| Line 37: | Line 43: | ||
{{HueNumber|Q83|asdfsdfsdf}} | {{HueNumber|Q83|asdfsdfsdf}} | ||
</ol> --> | </ol> --> | ||
* MX / existential materialism | |||
* LLM / machine learning | * LLM / machine learning | ||
* HAS / humanities, arts, and social sciences | * HAS / humanities, arts, and social sciences | ||
Revision as of 04:37, 22 April 2026
Main entry
- The AI Paradox (Dignum 2026) -> 'paradox' is one of the most clickbait words you could put in a book title. clickbait for libraries.
Motifs or claims
- Humans possess moral and ethical discernment -> I think that statement is actually worth doubting. maybe morality is an illusion and we're all just as bad at it as an AI.
- Inanimate objects lack the capacity for courage, honesty, and empathy / Inanimate objects have no courage / Inanimate objects have no honesty / Inanimate objects have no empathy
- LLMs lack the capacity for courage, honesty, and empathy -> this one is... odd. it really depends on what you define virtues and moral actions to be. like, there are going to be some moments where we could pull out "wizard of oz" definitions and say that even if a particular object "doesn't have a heart" it still produced results that were consistent with courage, honesty, or empathy, and deserves the Wizard's medal or diploma.
let's shift the discussion over from LLMs to different kinds of inanimate objects, like political parties. a political party as a whole is inanimate; it doesn't have a unique new mind of its own. this is why Marxists speak of political parties as "superstructural" within the "base-to-superstructure" process — as a whole object, a political party is an inanimate object generated out of a group of living beings based partly on their distorted experiences of being in that object, warped by the shape of the object they're making as they're in the process of making it. but although a political party is inanimate, we want it to have good values and make good decisions. if a political party makes good decisions, we consider it to have done a good thing much as we do an individual person. so do you really have to be human to have courage, honesty, or empathy? I genuinely doubt it. if Che Guevara is out there with a band of rebels trying to take back a country for the peasants, the group as a whole is inanimate, but it's hard not to say it has courage.
Subjective themes
- tin man (machine learning; existential materialism) -> the motif of an inanimate object lacking the characteristics of humans that it would normally need in order to properly carry out morally Right actions per se, which nonetheless manages to create results which are hard to deny as being moral or virtuous.
the Cowardly Lion has no courage, the wizard awards him a medal. the Scarecrow has no brain, the wizard awards him a diploma. the Tin Man has no heart, he gets awarded basically a heart pillow which does nothing a heart does and has no feelings. [1] [2] [3] the three keep wanting something that supposedly gives them the ability to do something, but turn out to be better at that thing than they think they are while the Wizard can't make them any better at it.
the Tin Man is a cyborg in the original book actually, made out of an ordinary woodman. but shhh that's not important to the metaphor don't remember it, it's only about whether he gets his award
Related
Wavebuilder combinations
- : forms result [Item]
- Communist parties are inanimate objects with courage ( / ML)1
-1-1 - along with [Item]
- Inanimate objects have no courage ( / HAS)1
-1-1 - forming from [Item]
- Inanimate objects have no courage ( / HAS)1
-1-1 - Che Guevara ( / ML)1
-1-1 - Communist parties are inanimate objects with courage ( / ML)1
-1-1
- Communist parties are inanimate objects with courage ( / ML)1
- : forms result [Item]
- Unions are inanimate with courage ( / ML)1
-1-1 - along with [Item]
- Inanimate objects have no courage ( / HAS)1
-1-1 - forming from [Item]
- Inanimate objects have no courage ( / HAS)1
-1-1 - Strikes are acts of courage ( / ML)1
-1-1 - Unions are inanimate with courage ( / ML)1
-1-1
- Unions are inanimate with courage ( / ML)1
- : forms result [Item]
- tin man (existential materialism) ( / MX)1
-1-1 - along with [Item]
- Inanimate objects have no empathy ( / HAS)1
-1-1
- tin man (existential materialism) ( / MX)1
Ideology codes
- MX / existential materialism
- LLM / machine learning
- HAS / humanities, arts, and social sciences
- HAS onto LLM