User:RD/9k/Q26,92

Main entry

2692. 2692

      Marx going meta

      [1] / Engels going meta; Lenin going meta; Stalin going meta; Hoxha going meta; Mao going meta / meta-critiquing Hegel / meta-ontology in Marx (meta-Marxist term) / post-ification in Marx (meta-Marxist term; outdated) -> the motif of Marx or Engels stepping outside a philosophy to look at the material substrate behind a philosophy or what it is really intending to talk about. any well-known Marxist theorist counts, but the significance of this motif is to help trace the origins of meta-Marxism and the first moments it seems to have appeared.
      

      this should most of all apply to situations where a Marxist theorist is describing the material origins of a particular form of Marxism (actual or purported) versus another form of Marxism. Marx describing 'proletarian consciousness' or 'the origins of the proletariat having an accurate model of creating a workers' state while other parties are detached from material reality' could count in the right context. Marx and Lenin didn't speak of plural Marxisms, so what you'd look for is them describing the general concept of sociophilosophies (see below) and exactly when sociophilosophies are separate from each other.

Cases

2845. 2845

      Productive forces birth sociophilosophies

      (Marx 1859, Stalin 1951) / Every stage of productive forces bundles itself into particular relations of production, which when replicated across a country form into a particular sociophilosophy / (9k)
2134. 2134

      socio-politico-economy

      (early Marxism) / civil society as unbreakable sociopolitical and socioeconomic connection / (9k) -> the ongoing connection from production or economy to social structures and then to political structures with an indivisibility of the three layers from each other. ... Marx is in one sense trying to center the "socioeconomy" as the place where history really happens through the sheer interactions of individuals to form a society being the "actual cause" of specific historical periods, and not the words or actions of governments. ...
      

      and in that sense something like Deng Xiaoping Thought at first seems really concerning because, how do you know all the free-floating businesses aren't going to take control of the thing? but ... the central party-nation is a socioeconomic structure in its own way. ... one of the only things saving China from a color revolution is basically that it contains a socioeconomic phenomenon which is so big and extended across the country it's hard for the capitalists to break it up. ... the material development of social structures in China and Vietnam is weird and you pretty much need meta-Marxist Bauplan analysis to understand it. which just makes things harder given that meta-Marxism / existential materialism isn't even complete

2846. 2846

      Apply Marx to country characteristics

      / country characteristics (Lenin) / Marx's theory does not plan for specific country characteristics, but can be applied to them / Marx's theory provides only general guiding principles, which are applied in England differently than in France, in France differently than in Germany, and in Germany differently than in Russia (Lenin) [2]
      

      Apply Marx to country characteristics + Mark Fisher = revisionism as "country characteristics".

Critiquing other ideologies

4292. 4292

      What is analyzed is accounted for

      / To take documents "into consideration" does not mean to take them at their face value. Marx has said that it is impossible to judge either parties or peoples by what they say about themselves. [...] If, for example, we began to take as pure gold the innumerable proclamations of [... Kronstadt] we would have to recognize these gentlemen as fervent friends of socialism. But in reality they are its perfidious enemies (Trotsky 1938) [3] -> oh god Trotsky's most ironic quote. fervent perfidious enemies..... I don't know how to tell you this....
4292. 4292What is analyzed is accounted for / explaining these theoretical phrases from the actual existing relations (Marx) [4]
4293. 4293

      Show why a wrong idea arises

      / It isn't enough to show an idea is wrong, you must show why a wrong idea arises (Marx) / It's worth showing why anarchism is wrong (Stalin) [5] -> claimed to appear in Capital. case of: Marx going meta.
      

      yeah, that's the idea. that's why I came up with the concept of showing the material basis and class basis for a bunch of specific named ideologies, including the differences between different Marxisms. you'll never know which one is wrong, particularly for which country at which time, unless you know what shovel (meta-Marxism) the shovel dream came from.

4292. 4292What is analyzed is accounted for / Taking documents, remarks, anecdotes, or memoir material into account means Materialist analysis of what produced them
4293. 4293Show why a wrong idea arises
2980. 2980Bad books are instructive / There is a lot to learn from bad books as long as you have a sufficient foundation in what's correct / (9k)

Ideologies, frameworks, or fields

1. S–83 (pronounced 83. (S))[ML] [S] (pronounced (ML) (S):) ML (pronounced ML) ⧼hue-ins-domain-spacer/⧽ML / dialectical materialism1:-1:-1
2. Z–41,03 (pronounced 41,03. (Z))⧼hue-philosophy-/⧽ (pronounced ⧼hue-philosophy-tts-/⧽) (pronounced ⧼hue-philosophy-tts-/⧽) ⧼hue-ins-domain-spacer/⧽mainstream Marxism-Leninism() (pronounced ⧼hue-philosophy-tts-/⧽)1:-1:-1
3. Z–92 (pronounced 92. (Z))[MX] [Z] (pronounced (meta-) (Z):) MX (pronounced meta-)  / meta-Marxism1:-1:-1

• ML / early Marxism
• IV / early Trotskyism
• MX onto ML / meta-Marxism onto Marxism
• ML onto ML / Marxism onto Marxism