Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q6912: Difference between revisions
m Dess is not whole in the sense that Kris and Susie are |
m special Gaster swatch |
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{{li|start=y|I=S1/UTDR|class=field_fantasy field_horror|Q=69,12|Q2=6912}}Dess Holiday / December Holiday | {{li|start=y|I=S1/UTDR|class=field_fantasy field_horror|Q=69,12|Q2=6912}}Dess Holiday / December Holiday | ||
{{li|I=S1/UTDR/WD66|Q=69,12|Q2=6912}}Dess Holiday | {{li|I=S1/UTDR/WD66|Q=69,12|Q2=6912}}Dess Holiday -> Dess gets the special Gaster swatch inasmuch as she may be some kind of cosmic rift entity hidden behind or within the Roaring Knight. | ||
</li></ol> | </li></ol> | ||
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<ol class="hue clean field_horror"> | <ol class="hue clean field_horror"> | ||
{{li|start=y|I=S1/Fy|Q=12,25|Q2=1225}}character embodying abstract concept / ({{9k|RD/Q12,25}}) | |||
{{li|I=S1/Fy|Q=12,24|Q2=1224}}calendar date as leitmotif -> "{{TTS|tts=12-25|1225}}". | |||
{{li|I=S1/HAS|Q=618|Q2=618}}Feuerbach and Deltarune / ({{9k|RD/Q618-FeuerbachAndDeltarune}}) | {{li|I=S1/HAS|Q=618|Q2=618}}Feuerbach and Deltarune / ({{9k|RD/Q618-FeuerbachAndDeltarune}}) | ||
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<ol class="hue clean field_horror"> | <ol class="hue clean field_horror"> | ||
{{li|I=S2/ | {{li|I=S2/DFy|Q=618|Q2=618}}Waterfall is retelling Dess' story / Waterfall in Undertale is secretly retelling one or more incidents in Dess' backstory / There is secret foreshadowing for Deltarune hidden in Undyne's theme songs in Undertale -> this sounds unlikely until you notice it. so, in the Ruins there is a particular theme associated with Toriel. this motif then appears again a little skewed in Undyne's theme. that's a slightly weird motif to be in there. you'd think it's maybe because of some stretched link from Toriel to Sans to Papyrus to Undyne. but it's not. because versions of the Ruins motif carry through into Battle Against a True Hero and into Gerson's theme. so what is that theme doing in the Ruins? you have to remember what Undyne does in the main story of Undertale — she tells you about how she learned to fight from Gerson. so believe it or not that motif in her theme is actually about learning from somebody older and more experienced, and that's why it's used in the Ruins as Toriel's theme. but then you look at the Waterfall theme, which is also a slower version of Undyne's theme, and in turn, a different version of the Ruins theme. funny enough, when you get into Hotland the Core has the same theme so it's a very central theme to Undertale. Snowdin is the only one that's weird — which is because it's a distantly-related version of Noelle's flashback theme that nobody would have known about until Deltarune but that totally existed before Undertale as evidenced by Gaster's theme also coming from it. I think Waterfall is more critical to understanding Deltarune than it would appear because the concept of Undyne learning from Gerson is written all over it, from the Waterfall theme to Undyne's main theme to Battle Against a True Hero. when you meet Gerson in Chapter 4 you visually see {{em|waterfalls}} there multiple times. and the whole time they're associated with tears and by extension Shadow Crystals ("something grew"). I think Waterfall as a whole is somehow telling a story of how Dess sort of terrorized Kris but also became a mentor figure that left a huge impact. if I remember right the waterfall like, goes off the edge, and Alphys was looking down it in depression? I think that was another hint of what the waterfall means. Undertale is secretly about losing Dess. it keeps it very quiet so as not to trample over the unique story and combination of characters happening in Undertale. but I'm pretty sure all the background choices about the story that are not as important to the central themes are actually foreshadowing Deltarune. even Undyne running after you until she collapses and is going to die feels like some weird nightmare regurgitated out of Kris' mind after trying to forget Dess. having to use water to save her is interesting too... waterfall water is a healing item in Deltarune, remember. is the Underground another form of "the dark". don't forget, I'm with you in the dark, which also means the entirety of Undertale? it's gotta be. I don't know who Frisk is supposed to be but I don't know if that matters, because Asriel, Chara, Undyne, and Gerson are much more focal characters to Undertale than its main character if you're connecting it to Deltarune. I feel like Frisk might be some sort of statement that Kris believes protagonists are replaceable and you could just throw in seven or eight different people and it doesn't matter to a story built on themes and recycled memories who the protagonist is. alphys and undyne seem to have very different and opposite responses to the waterfall. the waterfall helps Undyne get back up but it just about helps alphys die. does it matter that alphys is yellow? is this telling us what yellow means? but Undyne isn't pink, she only has red accents. there actually isn't much overlap between Spamton/Jevil and Gerson that I can remember except for the freedom motif; Spamton is contrasted with Tenna, not Gerson. which is like, I see a theme of hope with Tenna and despair or suffering with Spamton. I see hope with Gerson and hope and recovery with Undyne and I see death and suffering with Alphys. which.... oh god. so Undyne is the tough one and Alphys is the quiet yellow one. they really are Susie and Noelle even though Undyne isn't pink. it's really weird that Noelle would be hinted to be associated with death and despair in Undertale while in Deltarune she seems very hopeful, she seems more hopeful than Kris as long as you don't try to mess with her mind. there is a sad but theatrically staged scene where the fans get sad that Mettaton is going away, and that's like Tenna having to go away when he doesn't want to but the Knight comes in and breaks him. I can't remember Mettaton having much to do with the yellow/pink hope/despair theme other than maybe like he has pink boots and he's not as depressed as Alphys but that's about it. Tenna wants everything back, the Knight says no. the Knight is on Spamton and Alphys Undertale's team of "the waterfall never ends". then Undyne Deltarune shows up unaware what she's getting herself into with the Knight. there is this thorough separation between the Knight as this horror entity and Undyne, both Undynes. Alphys Undertale hiding the monster in the basement and never showing it to Undyne is quite a bit like Undyne Deltarune facing the Knight, only it's out in the open. the Knight is conceptually the thing you find at the end of the waterfall — Deltarune actually says that. off the edge lies the end of the waterfall. the waterfall could help you, it could help you get back up, or you could go off the edge by getting close to it and like, become an Abstraction; this isn't Digital Circus but man are the metaphors just exactly the same within a couple of its episodes. I think Dess is another version of that same idea, that a broken mind creates a wildly distorted version of a monster, and there's simply maybe a bit of a literal angle to the metaphors with a literal edge or maybe a literal waterfall, definitely a literal Shadow Crystal and a literal Black Shard whatever those are. maybe it's like.... a Deltarune character is just a thin boundary around a section of Dark World that can actually be pierced, and then the character falls into shards of glass leaving a blob of darkness? that is a disturbing image. it reminds me a bit of the corruption creatures in Tunic that were the holes in the game cartridge that could destroy everything. but here it's not {{em|that}} literal, Deltarune is more drawn on this abstract medium of creative potential or something but it's still possible to pierce all the way through it. I think there's something to the concept of post-structuralist themes in Deltarune, like Gerson casually tells you to erase the narrative so you can write a new one, but maybe Dess looked at the world and said, well if our world is just one big fabricated construct maybe I can destroy it by piercing through me to reach the other side where anything is possible. again kind of what Scratch did. but it didn't work quite the way she intended. the world was more material than she thought and she only successfully destroyed her body. although along with unleashing darkness she did break through the world. and maybe the Knight is gonna turn into some huge crazy world-reshaping rift in Chapter 7? god if this isn't the real game plot this is my new AU. omega Knight. that would be so cool.<br/> | ||
this is one of the most coherent theories I've ever come up with for {{em|why}} suffering would make Noelle stronger, or {{em|why}} Kris seems to be afraid of growing and completing their 'adventure' and seems to do everything to subvert it. the Shadow Crystal bosses are trying to tempt Noelle to become a fantasy black hole apparently, or maybe Kris, the Knight is casually waiting for one of their participation before ending the world and Kris is terrified | this is one of the most coherent theories I've ever come up with for {{em|why}} suffering would make Noelle stronger, or {{em|why}} Kris seems to be afraid of growing and completing their 'adventure' and seems to do everything to subvert it. the Shadow Crystal bosses are trying to tempt Noelle to become a fantasy black hole apparently, or maybe Kris, the Knight is casually waiting for one of their participation before ending the world and Kris is terrified | ||
Latest revision as of 12:39, 5 May 2026
Main entry
- Dess Holiday / December Holiday
- Dess Holiday -> Dess gets the special Gaster swatch inasmuch as she may be some kind of cosmic rift entity hidden behind or within the Roaring Knight.
Themes and motifs
- character embodying abstract concept / (9k)
- calendar date as leitmotif -> "".
- Feuerbach and Deltarune / (9k)
Theories
- The Knight is Dess lucid dreaming / The Roaring Knight is Dess becoming able to lucid-dream and take control of her physical form in the created world of Deltarune (their form; his form; Deltarune)
- Dess was afraid of being trapped in a closet / Dess turned her bed away from the closet because, perhaps from a younger age, she had had nightmares about being trapped in darkness [1]
- Dess is not whole in the sense that Kris and Susie are [2] -> probably.
Rift Knight
- Waterfall is retelling Dess' story / Waterfall in Undertale is secretly retelling one or more incidents in Dess' backstory / There is secret foreshadowing for Deltarune hidden in Undyne's theme songs in Undertale -> this sounds unlikely until you notice it. so, in the Ruins there is a particular theme associated with Toriel. this motif then appears again a little skewed in Undyne's theme. that's a slightly weird motif to be in there. you'd think it's maybe because of some stretched link from Toriel to Sans to Papyrus to Undyne. but it's not. because versions of the Ruins motif carry through into Battle Against a True Hero and into Gerson's theme. so what is that theme doing in the Ruins? you have to remember what Undyne does in the main story of Undertale — she tells you about how she learned to fight from Gerson. so believe it or not that motif in her theme is actually about learning from somebody older and more experienced, and that's why it's used in the Ruins as Toriel's theme. but then you look at the Waterfall theme, which is also a slower version of Undyne's theme, and in turn, a different version of the Ruins theme. funny enough, when you get into Hotland the Core has the same theme so it's a very central theme to Undertale. Snowdin is the only one that's weird — which is because it's a distantly-related version of Noelle's flashback theme that nobody would have known about until Deltarune but that totally existed before Undertale as evidenced by Gaster's theme also coming from it. I think Waterfall is more critical to understanding Deltarune than it would appear because the concept of Undyne learning from Gerson is written all over it, from the Waterfall theme to Undyne's main theme to Battle Against a True Hero. when you meet Gerson in Chapter 4 you visually see waterfalls there multiple times. and the whole time they're associated with tears and by extension Shadow Crystals ("something grew"). I think Waterfall as a whole is somehow telling a story of how Dess sort of terrorized Kris but also became a mentor figure that left a huge impact. if I remember right the waterfall like, goes off the edge, and Alphys was looking down it in depression? I think that was another hint of what the waterfall means. Undertale is secretly about losing Dess. it keeps it very quiet so as not to trample over the unique story and combination of characters happening in Undertale. but I'm pretty sure all the background choices about the story that are not as important to the central themes are actually foreshadowing Deltarune. even Undyne running after you until she collapses and is going to die feels like some weird nightmare regurgitated out of Kris' mind after trying to forget Dess. having to use water to save her is interesting too... waterfall water is a healing item in Deltarune, remember. is the Underground another form of "the dark". don't forget, I'm with you in the dark, which also means the entirety of Undertale? it's gotta be. I don't know who Frisk is supposed to be but I don't know if that matters, because Asriel, Chara, Undyne, and Gerson are much more focal characters to Undertale than its main character if you're connecting it to Deltarune. I feel like Frisk might be some sort of statement that Kris believes protagonists are replaceable and you could just throw in seven or eight different people and it doesn't matter to a story built on themes and recycled memories who the protagonist is. alphys and undyne seem to have very different and opposite responses to the waterfall. the waterfall helps Undyne get back up but it just about helps alphys die. does it matter that alphys is yellow? is this telling us what yellow means? but Undyne isn't pink, she only has red accents. there actually isn't much overlap between Spamton/Jevil and Gerson that I can remember except for the freedom motif; Spamton is contrasted with Tenna, not Gerson. which is like, I see a theme of hope with Tenna and despair or suffering with Spamton. I see hope with Gerson and hope and recovery with Undyne and I see death and suffering with Alphys. which.... oh god. so Undyne is the tough one and Alphys is the quiet yellow one. they really are Susie and Noelle even though Undyne isn't pink. it's really weird that Noelle would be hinted to be associated with death and despair in Undertale while in Deltarune she seems very hopeful, she seems more hopeful than Kris as long as you don't try to mess with her mind. there is a sad but theatrically staged scene where the fans get sad that Mettaton is going away, and that's like Tenna having to go away when he doesn't want to but the Knight comes in and breaks him. I can't remember Mettaton having much to do with the yellow/pink hope/despair theme other than maybe like he has pink boots and he's not as depressed as Alphys but that's about it. Tenna wants everything back, the Knight says no. the Knight is on Spamton and Alphys Undertale's team of "the waterfall never ends". then Undyne Deltarune shows up unaware what she's getting herself into with the Knight. there is this thorough separation between the Knight as this horror entity and Undyne, both Undynes. Alphys Undertale hiding the monster in the basement and never showing it to Undyne is quite a bit like Undyne Deltarune facing the Knight, only it's out in the open. the Knight is conceptually the thing you find at the end of the waterfall — Deltarune actually says that. off the edge lies the end of the waterfall. the waterfall could help you, it could help you get back up, or you could go off the edge by getting close to it and like, become an Abstraction; this isn't Digital Circus but man are the metaphors just exactly the same within a couple of its episodes. I think Dess is another version of that same idea, that a broken mind creates a wildly distorted version of a monster, and there's simply maybe a bit of a literal angle to the metaphors with a literal edge or maybe a literal waterfall, definitely a literal Shadow Crystal and a literal Black Shard whatever those are. maybe it's like.... a Deltarune character is just a thin boundary around a section of Dark World that can actually be pierced, and then the character falls into shards of glass leaving a blob of darkness? that is a disturbing image. it reminds me a bit of the corruption creatures in Tunic that were the holes in the game cartridge that could destroy everything. but here it's not that literal, Deltarune is more drawn on this abstract medium of creative potential or something but it's still possible to pierce all the way through it. I think there's something to the concept of post-structuralist themes in Deltarune, like Gerson casually tells you to erase the narrative so you can write a new one, but maybe Dess looked at the world and said, well if our world is just one big fabricated construct maybe I can destroy it by piercing through me to reach the other side where anything is possible. again kind of what Scratch did. but it didn't work quite the way she intended. the world was more material than she thought and she only successfully destroyed her body. although along with unleashing darkness she did break through the world. and maybe the Knight is gonna turn into some huge crazy world-reshaping rift in Chapter 7? god if this isn't the real game plot this is my new AU. omega Knight. that would be so cool.
this is one of the most coherent theories I've ever come up with for why suffering would make Noelle stronger, or why Kris seems to be afraid of growing and completing their 'adventure' and seems to do everything to subvert it. the Shadow Crystal bosses are trying to tempt Noelle to become a fantasy black hole apparently, or maybe Kris, the Knight is casually waiting for one of their participation before ending the world and Kris is terrified
Related
Wavebuilder combinations
- : forms result [Item]
- making the will of humanity objective ( / HAS)1
-1-1 - along with [Item]
- Dess Holiday ( / DFy)1
-1-1 - forming from [Item]
- Dess Holiday ( / DFy)1
-1-1 - it's
Christmas ( / Fy)1-1-1 - making the will of humanity objective ( / HAS)1
-1-1
- making the will of humanity objective ( / HAS)1
Ideologies or fields
- Fy / urban fantasy
- (D)Fy / cosmic horror
- UTDR / Deltarune