Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q92: Difference between revisions
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{{li|start=y|I=Z1/MX|Q=92}}[[E:Q92|meta-Marxism]] (Materialist analysis of contradicting or competing Leninisms, their component parts at various large and tiny scales, and their iterative development as interacting factions or countries; R. Bergfalk) / [[E:Q92/WA|violet Marxism]] | {{li|start=y|I=Z1/MX|Q=92}}[[E:Q92|meta-Marxism]] (Materialist analysis of contradicting or competing Leninisms, their component parts at various large and tiny scales, and their iterative development as interacting factions or countries; [[U:Reversedragon|R. Bergfalk)]] / [[E:Q92/WA|violet Marxism]] | ||
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== | == Violet Marxism == | ||
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{{li|start=y|I=S2/W|tradition=W, MX|Q=618}}Marx's writings contain ideology because they are political (Althusser; Western-Marxism) / ({{9k|RD/Q21,29}}) | |||
{{li|I=S2/MX|tradition=W, MX|Q=618}}Marx's writings contain ideology when they are political / Trotsky's writings contain ideology when they are politically charged / Deng Xiaoping's statements contain ideology when they are politically charged / All sociophilosophies are ideologies, but some of them are materially accurate (generic; violet Marxism) / ({{9k|RD/Q21,29}}) | |||
{{li|I=S2/MX|tradition=HAS, ML, MX|Q=618}}It is unavoidable for philosophy to have a short-term goal / Philosophy needing a goal in order to exist has nothing to do with whether the material processes of history "intend" to reach a goal / ({{9k|RD/Q618-KarlPopper}}) -> I think it's important to remember: philosophy having a goal {{em|because it's philosophy and must have a goal by its nature}} isn't to say {{em|history has a goal}}. I think that's tripped up some people when interpreting Marx. they see that Marx is writing philosophy and laying out goals because philosophy requires goals, and they falsely think that presenting a goal is actually part of Marx's scientific model of history when at most it's part of Marx's vision of current politics, which requires philosophy, which requires goals.<br/> | |||
it's possible to present Marxism without accidentally implying that history has a goal but with everything otherwise exactly the same. I call it meta-Marxism. in meta-Marxism you step outside Marx or Stalin or Mao's movement and you detail what that group of people is doing purely descriptively rather than describing the movement's current objectives as an ethical imperative that somehow cosmically needs to happen more than another group of people's objectives. the funny thing is that if you're smart and you understand historical facts this doesn't take away from any of the claims made by Marxism whatsoever; the more you analyze Marxist movements in the third person {{em|the more various Marxisms hold up}}. when you zoom out on Marxism and "remove teleology" all it does is make it easier to objectively analyze mainstream Marxism-Leninism and Trotskyism and Deng Xiaoping Thought in parallel to each other without anybody getting caught up in the vortex of Trotskyist rhetoric (for example) and feeling like they are cosmically obligated to take the side of Trotskyism over Maoism. which makes things much clearer and less muddy and debatable than they'd be otherwise. taking away so-called "teleology" does wonders for Marxism, actually.<br/> | |||
meta-Marxism: I don't believe Marxism has teleology in it but for some reason Karl Popper did so I'm going to jump a few steps ahead of him and tear out all the remaining "teleology" from Marxism so he has nothing to complain about. | |||
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== Prior usages of "meta-Marxism" before violet Marxism == | |||
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{{li|start=y|I=S1/PT|tradition=PT onto HM|Q=618}}unpacking the meta-Marxism of the woke narrative {{YouTube|ex-bUC1wXyg}} -> oh my god you're telling me that critical theory secretly knows everything about modeling the historical development of different Marxisms?? and it knows exactly how to get China and Cuba to cooperate so they can both get back to Bolshevism?? I had no idea<br/> | {{li|start=y|I=S1/PT|tradition=PT onto HM|Q=618}}unpacking the meta-Marxism of the woke narrative {{YouTube|ex-bUC1wXyg}} -> {{i|oh my god you're telling me that critical theory secretly knows everything about modeling the historical development of different Marxisms?? and it knows exactly how to get China and Cuba to cooperate so they can both get back to Bolshevism?? I had no idea}}<br/> | ||
found this when I tried to use Google to search YouTube for "meta-Marxism". it was the only result. | found this when I tried to use Google to search YouTube for "meta-Marxism". it was the only result. | ||
Revision as of 04:32, 6 May 2026
Main entries
- meta-Marxism (Materialist analysis of contradicting or competing Leninisms, their component parts at various large and tiny scales, and their iterative development as interacting factions or countries; R. Bergfalk) / violet Marxism
Violet Marxism
- Marx's writings contain ideology because they are political (Althusser; Western-Marxism) / (9k)
- Marx's writings contain ideology when they are political / Trotsky's writings contain ideology when they are politically charged / Deng Xiaoping's statements contain ideology when they are politically charged / All sociophilosophies are ideologies, but some of them are materially accurate (generic; violet Marxism) / (9k)
- It is unavoidable for philosophy to have a short-term goal / Philosophy needing a goal in order to exist has nothing to do with whether the material processes of history "intend" to reach a goal / (9k) -> I think it's important to remember: philosophy having a goal because it's philosophy and must have a goal by its nature isn't to say history has a goal. I think that's tripped up some people when interpreting Marx. they see that Marx is writing philosophy and laying out goals because philosophy requires goals, and they falsely think that presenting a goal is actually part of Marx's scientific model of history when at most it's part of Marx's vision of current politics, which requires philosophy, which requires goals.
it's possible to present Marxism without accidentally implying that history has a goal but with everything otherwise exactly the same. I call it meta-Marxism. in meta-Marxism you step outside Marx or Stalin or Mao's movement and you detail what that group of people is doing purely descriptively rather than describing the movement's current objectives as an ethical imperative that somehow cosmically needs to happen more than another group of people's objectives. the funny thing is that if you're smart and you understand historical facts this doesn't take away from any of the claims made by Marxism whatsoever; the more you analyze Marxist movements in the third person the more various Marxisms hold up. when you zoom out on Marxism and "remove teleology" all it does is make it easier to objectively analyze mainstream Marxism-Leninism and Trotskyism and Deng Xiaoping Thought in parallel to each other without anybody getting caught up in the vortex of Trotskyist rhetoric (for example) and feeling like they are cosmically obligated to take the side of Trotskyism over Maoism. which makes things much clearer and less muddy and debatable than they'd be otherwise. taking away so-called "teleology" does wonders for Marxism, actually.
meta-Marxism: I don't believe Marxism has teleology in it but for some reason Karl Popper did so I'm going to jump a few steps ahead of him and tear out all the remaining "teleology" from Marxism so he has nothing to complain about.
Prior usages of "meta-Marxism" before violet Marxism
- unpacking the meta-Marxism of the woke narrative [1] -> oh my god you're telling me that critical theory secretly knows everything about modeling the historical development of different Marxisms?? and it knows exactly how to get China and Cuba to cooperate so they can both get back to Bolshevism?? I had no idea
found this when I tried to use Google to search YouTube for "meta-Marxism". it was the only result. - Rethinking Althusser's Meta-Marxism (Andreas Beck Holm 2024) [2] / (9k) -> so, "meta-Marxism" has rarely been used for describing Western-Marxism for some reason. rest assured, this is not at all what "meta-Marxism" is referring to on any other page on this site. ...
Ideology codes
- MX / meta-Marxism
- W / Western Marxism
- UM / unknown Marxism