Research talk:5c/ICFI/WoodsIntroducingRCI: Difference between revisions
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It wasn't time for a Fourth International in 1917 |
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== Usage notes == | == Usage notes == | ||
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== Motifs or claims == | == Motifs or claims (Woods) == | ||
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{{li|start=y|I=S2/IV|Q=618|Q2=618}} | {{li|start=y|I=S2/IV|tradition=MX|Q=618}}Global capitalism finished its progressive role in 2024 / Only now has global capitalism exhausted its historically progressive role of developing the means of production (Alan Woods, 2024) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/12/27/ofjx-d27.html] -> not exactly wrong, but probably setting the boundary a bit too late. arguably it was actually done in about 2000, after the internet had been invented but before LLMS. maybe you could peg the end of big capitalism to 2008, when there was a speculation crisis so big it hit both the United States and Japan.<br/> | ||
the one thing I know with a bit more certainty is that we now live in a world shaped by the petty bourgeoisie in global multicapitalist hell. | |||
{{li|I=S2/IV|Q=618|Q2=618}}It wasn't time for a Fourth International in 1917 / Global capitalism has not been developed enough to create a successful Fourth International until 2024; this is to imply that there were not the right material conditions for Trotskyism in 1917 -> claim accidentally implied by Alan Woods.<br/> | |||
this.... wow, this is complicated. if you're not talking about the Soviet Union, the Communist Party of China had a lot of trouble getting started and creating a workers' movement and then ended up turning into Dengism. so there could actually be a decent claim that it wasn't time for Trotskyism to form in China until about 2000. but it's much harder to say that it wasn't time for Trotskyism to form in the Soviet Union, because of how it had that unusual structure of many separate nations in a supranational federation that has hardly ever been seen since. that is a bizarrely Trotskyist country structure, particularly when the country is so big, with such a great overall area. so I would hesitate to say that there weren't conditions for Trotskyism between about 1900 and 1930. that might have been the previous time there {{em|were}}! as World War II developed that kind of put a damper on the conditions for Trotskyism and shifted the conditions to be more favorable to Stalin's Marxism and Dengism for about 20 years, until in about 1960 after all the pressure and actual physical occupations across places like Germany and Korea there was nothing but Dengism. I think it's denying World War II to say there have been great conditions for Trotskyism this whole time, but I think there was a notable change around 1960 where the conditions for Trotskyism became better, partly because Trotskyists were becoming more successful at expelling blatant non-Trotskyists from their own organizations.<br/> | |||
I hate to say that part of that might actually be because Israel was founded in 1948 and the United States started disproportionately focusing on Israel, giving Trotskyism more room to breathe because it wasn't as important as "the arab menace". I don't think the United States ever actually became committed to peace; I think it just shifted to different wars that affected some people less. Trotskyism is a little dangerous in that it always has a setup phase before you can even do anything and global conditions can just {{em|win}} and destroy your parties before you've even quite stopped the Fourth International from forming right oppositions. but given about 20 years of "peace" for everybody but Palestine the conditions become better. | |||
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Revision as of 06:28, 28 June 2026
What is the Revolutionary Communist International proclaimed by the former International Marxist Tendency of Alan Woods?
- field, scope, or group [Item]
Links
Nickel usage or significance
- (fill in later)
Motifs or claims (Woods)
- Global capitalism finished its progressive role in 2024 / Only now has global capitalism exhausted its historically progressive role of developing the means of production (Alan Woods, 2024) [4] -> not exactly wrong, but probably setting the boundary a bit too late. arguably it was actually done in about 2000, after the internet had been invented but before LLMS. maybe you could peg the end of big capitalism to 2008, when there was a speculation crisis so big it hit both the United States and Japan.
the one thing I know with a bit more certainty is that we now live in a world shaped by the petty bourgeoisie in global multicapitalist hell. - It wasn't time for a Fourth International in 1917 / Global capitalism has not been developed enough to create a successful Fourth International until 2024; this is to imply that there were not the right material conditions for Trotskyism in 1917 -> claim accidentally implied by Alan Woods.
this.... wow, this is complicated. if you're not talking about the Soviet Union, the Communist Party of China had a lot of trouble getting started and creating a workers' movement and then ended up turning into Dengism. so there could actually be a decent claim that it wasn't time for Trotskyism to form in China until about 2000. but it's much harder to say that it wasn't time for Trotskyism to form in the Soviet Union, because of how it had that unusual structure of many separate nations in a supranational federation that has hardly ever been seen since. that is a bizarrely Trotskyist country structure, particularly when the country is so big, with such a great overall area. so I would hesitate to say that there weren't conditions for Trotskyism between about 1900 and 1930. that might have been the previous time there were! as World War II developed that kind of put a damper on the conditions for Trotskyism and shifted the conditions to be more favorable to Stalin's Marxism and Dengism for about 20 years, until in about 1960 after all the pressure and actual physical occupations across places like Germany and Korea there was nothing but Dengism. I think it's denying World War II to say there have been great conditions for Trotskyism this whole time, but I think there was a notable change around 1960 where the conditions for Trotskyism became better, partly because Trotskyists were becoming more successful at expelling blatant non-Trotskyists from their own organizations.
I hate to say that part of that might actually be because Israel was founded in 1948 and the United States started disproportionately focusing on Israel, giving Trotskyism more room to breathe because it wasn't as important as "the arab menace". I don't think the United States ever actually became committed to peace; I think it just shifted to different wars that affected some people less. Trotskyism is a little dangerous in that it always has a setup phase before you can even do anything and global conditions can just win and destroy your parties before you've even quite stopped the Fourth International from forming right oppositions. but given about 20 years of "peace" for everybody but Palestine the conditions become better.