User:Reversedragon/UTDR/bad-memory
The gumball door aligning is crazy. You find Gaster's door randomly with the right number. You find the Dess flashback using the right number. Dess disappeared. Gaster disappeared. Gaster fell into his creation. The Knight might be a shadow of Dess, and creates Dark Fountains. Gaster has holes in his hands. The Roaring Knight has hand holes. Noelle could have a hole in her hand... Does Dess have a hole in her hand? Or just a hand that went missing into the abyss before she fell all the way in? Dess could have been wearing a green Christmas sweater for all we know! We don't know for sure Dess isn't green.
So what I think is going on is Kris created the forgotten man, who turned into Gaster, to try to solve the situation of Dess being gone, but Gaster went out of control trying to overwrite Deltarune with Undertale because he didn't know he was "fake", and this caused the monster/human war in Undertale, which looks more like the Roaring Knight and the Roaring in Deltarune. Then Gaster disappeared from Undertale because he was still similar to Dess and so they both disappeared. But he appeared in Deltarune as a narrator figure, and now Gaster saving Deltarune is in conflict with the real Dess coming back because Gaster can only exist when Dess doesn't exist but Dess can only come back when Gaster doesn't exist. Finding the eggs and remembering Dess is still out there and Gaster is fake could stop Gaster existing and saving Deltarune, therefore it's an issue
that's how it extended "serpentine", and the children followed it then Dess found it and somehow put her hand into it to investigate it. but she couldn't find her hand. subsequently she fell all the way in but if Dess had punched the crack in the world deeper, she would have fallen into her own creation. so Kris made up Gaster to try to forget what happened to Dess, and have this dubious superhero figure that would supposedly save Deltarune. but then Gaster existing caused Undertale to exist, and Undertale started trying to destroy the Deltarune world by becoming real over the top of it. Gaster disappears from Undertale either because Dess disappeared, or because he went to Deltarune and became the "narrator". so the conflict of Deltarune is that the real Dess could come back but Gaster would rather replace her because that's the way Kris made him. (I mean in the overall metanarrative as the narrator guy or stuck deep in the Dark World or something, but the idea of him manifesting in Hometown is definitely very funny.) In light of this theory, Friend being a hand makes plenty of sense. we don't know exactly what significance Kris' hand would have — did they put only their hand in, and chicken out on trying to rescue Dess? who knows. but it does vaguely make sense that to reflect the trauma of Dess falling into the darkness some kind of cursed shadow of a hand would show up, haunting Kris' imagination whenever they look at shadows. no surprises there, the only questions are why it's a cat, why it's a hand, and whose hand it is.
A) The Memoryhead looks a bit like a melty skeleton with six heads. It hands Frisk a "Bad Memory". Being an amalgamate, it is something else revived, but it's clearly not Undertale monsters, so what is it? Bad memories? Does the Bad Memory actually have a physical form, like maybe one of the spooky faces it attacks with? One of the Gaster followers is holding a face instead of a donut. Is that a Bad Memory?
B) Ralsei is determined to make a better ending for Deltarune which is "more favorable", while Narrator-Gaster wants to create "a better future". If there was somebody who lived through the original ending of Deltarune, that would presumably be a bad memory.
C) Kris already has bad memories from an earlier time in their life, as evidenced by the Forgotten Man and only being able to draw him as a bunch of scribbles behind a tree.
D) Kris' bad memories, at least the most important ones, are evidently about Dess. There are so many hints in Deltarune that everybody is trying to forget Dess such as the gumball machine and Carol not really talking about her despite being willing to spoil her with a bunch of discarded gifts, and so on. Kris and Noelle both have bad memories relating to Dess.
E) Dark Worlds are made from multiple people's thoughts or memories at once. Kris liked cards, Noelle feared plugs, Susie was just happy to see food. This is very very relevant when discussing the Roaring Knight and the Forgotten Man.
F) Simple abstract ideas or memories can become Dark Worlds: Friend is suggested in the Chapter 3 cutscene to have been born from a shadow over Susie's room. That's nowhere near as tangible as a playing card. Friend may as well be an abstract idea. Also, there are a bunch of hints of "bad memories" in Tenna's Dark World. Snow falling. Tenna showing a picture that includes Dess. The Sword Route minigame that is hidden. There are bad memories hidden deep inside the TV World, likely in all Dark Worlds.
G) The Roaring is the division between mind or bad memories and reality breaking down. The Dark World is a plane of imagination. The Roaring is the connection between the Dark Worlds and the Light World totally breaking down and darkness covering the world. The Titans bring the Roaring once they fully get out. The Titans will not appear by creating too many Dark Fountains, only by creating a fountain inside a Dark World. So what is a Titan? A Titan is something the Dark Worlds are effectively forming a barrier against and hiding. But look at Friend, and the Roaring Knight. All three are drawn in stark black darkness. That doesn't mean all three are Titans or all three are Knights. That means stark-black darkness symbolizes bad things that are hidden. The Roaring Knight looks like that because it's a hidden thing bursting out from beneath the Dark Worlds.
H) Noelle's glitched egg (from the blog) was a trauma. Why is Tenna trying to hide that he has a Pipis? What other things leave home due to happiness? Why is Kris finding eggs when eggs are clearly a negative thing? Because the Forgotten Man and the eggs are the trail back to something painful that currently refuses to leave home.
I) Undertale keeps trying to remind us of the idea of bad memories. Memoryhead. Sans having a few bad memories about not being able to go back. Alphys literally keeping something scary deep in the basement, which has six heads just like Friend... or just like the Memoryhead. The deeply hidden Gaster events that are bad memories of Gaster supposedly vanishing or dying in a terrible accident. Asriel who has bad memories of Chara and dying and being left alone. Flowey making you remember bad timelines if you play the murder route. One of the strangest instances is the Riverperson acting as if the world "forgot" their gender. Why explicitly point out that you don't know it, when there are already characters like Kris and Frisk that don't dwell on that?
J) Why does the Core have a Soul symbol on it? Why does it have "darkness totems" around it? Why does it weirdly look like the Core created Undertale with soul-dreams and darkness rather than just being a power plant?
K) Why is the Asriel incident in Undertale so similar in concept to the Roaring Knight? Why are they both a terrible monster that breaches through to the surface and scares the surface people enough for everyone to want the barrier between the two worlds to stay firmly in place? Why are they both characters that were clearly connected within Deltarune? Could it be that Undertale is "not supposed to be real" compared to Kris and Noelle? That Undertale Asriel isn't real and Gaster isn't real and the Roaring Knight isn't real equally, while all three of these are connected to The Roaring?
L) The leap: Gaster always was a bad memory. Even before the Memoryhead existed. Everything about bad memories in Undertale is actually about Dess. That means that Kris and Noelle had bad memories (in Deltarune), then the Forgotten Man came to exist, then he somehow turned into Gaster or duplicated into Gaster and all of Undertale came to exist to hide the bad memories. This is the story being told in entry #17. Gaster is almost like some sort of imagined superhero created by Kris, or something like that. Overwhelmed, Kris steps over out of reality into unreality, directly into a reality where Gaster exists and is capable of crazy impossible technological feats. This is how Gaster "discovers" deep, advanced darkness. He didn't discover it, he came from it after Kris discovered it. He came from either the Titans and Roaring Knight layer or somewhere past it all the way to another side. And the other side became Undertale. Gaster is a weird distorted mirror of Dess, conceptually taking her place but different in all the details. Gaster was created because Dess disappeared, to fix everything as everything was getting worse. "Don't forget, I'm with you in the dark". So Gaster is formed from this weird sort of fantasy that not only is Dess waiting down in the deepest layer of stark-black darkness but she is actually super powerful and could fix everything if she wanted to. Why replace Dess with a skeleton man? I don't know. Maybe just to create something which looked nothing like her and would make it easier to imagine a better future. But in trying to create a better future, Kris might have spawned a conflict between two parallel realities each trying to overwrite each other as Gaster tries to become real in exclusion to Dess but the real Dess tries to become real again in exclusion to Gaster, and the whole worlds of Deltarune and Undertale are fighting each other within Undertale, but within Deltarune it's just Gaster versus Dess, and Kris wanting to forget Dess but Noelle wanting to remember her and this turning the two weirdly into rivals instead of friends. The Weird Route is the player trying to "fix" things by making Kris make Noelle forget Dess but let Gaster be and kill the Roaring Knight so no version of Dess will win and everything can just continue without her. Noelle is an "angel" in that she would stop "666" Gaster, despite Gaster not asking anyone to hurt her, just trying to make her forget Dess.
M) Knowing the Roaring is just one big crack in the Deltarune cosmos, where the Titans and Friend are things at the bottom that must not break out, what if we're overcomplicating what the pointed tail is? What if the pointed tail is just a crack in the world? This would be the one past event that didn't connect back to Dess. The world just cracked one day, because not everything revolves around Kris and Noelle. The crack extended "serpentine", and nobody could stop it from growing. Then the children followed the "pointed tail" to find a weird hole in the world. Then Kris or Dess put their hand in and saw it disappear. Then Dess somehow fell into The Roaring and disappeared entirely. This kicked off the great chain of events around trauma and bad memories across Deltarune. Then the Dark Worlds became distorted by those bad memories, and the Roaring Knight formed from them to torment Kris and Noelle. The Roaring Knight isn't literally Dess, just bad memories ignored for too long. So long Kris and Noelle have turned Dess into a creepypasta in their minds that "surely" is angry enough to come kill them. The ThornRing and the Knight's hand holes are approximately the same thing. The Roaring Knight is their shared pain that got stronger as more pain was put into it. Carol may have decided the crack had to be filled in somehow and the whole incident covered up. That part is an inference, but come on, she has a lot of power and she is seemingly making Asgore investigate the incident secretly. What I'm more confident in is that The Roaring and Dess disappearing are separate events that intertwined because the game (we're going Doylian now) wants us to see the two things as similar. The Roaring is just something that exists, but when Kris and Noelle tried to forget about Dess it turned into a metaphor for improperly trying to forget things you shouldn't be trying to forget that will come back to bite you if you do try to forget. "Don't forget, I'm with you in the dark."
N) If Dess did anything to accidentally punch the crack deeper, then she fell into her own creation.
Kicking off a cycle of various other people falling into their own creations. Kris fell into their own creation and got stuck creating and serving Gaster. Noelle messed with Cat Petterz 2 until the egg appeared and Spamton appeared and she fell into her own creation. There might be more examples. Gerson is "good" because he's the closest thing to a real Gaster, he's hopelessly lost in the darkness but he only wants to help. Maybe Gaster is a reflection of what every adult in Kris' life did for all we know, always trying to make them bury the pain and rewrite things instead of actually fix the problem.
O) I have absolutely no idea why Gaster is affiliated with Sans, or why Deltarune Sans is tirelessly guarding his house as if there's a Gaster door still in there we aren't allowed to see. Did Dess manifest at Sans' house and decide nobody could know she wasn't really gone, while Sans lies that the person in his house is just his "brother"?? I have no idea what's going on in Sans' house. Sans' house isn't part of this theory. I mean, he's never been the main character anyway.
So... here's the shorter version. A) The Roaring was a natural disaster before it was a psychology metaphor. The pointed tail was the first hint of The Roaring, and Dess fell into it. B) Kris and possibly Noelle made up Gaster to try to forget Dess and turn away from an otherwise nasty future. C) As narrator, Gaster wants Kris to complete the story without figuring out he was made to cover up Dess, because if found out he will disappear for real and can't create a better future.