User:RD/9k/Offensive jokes are democracy (Q64,76)
Main entry
- Offensive jokes are democracy / Making offensive jokes is democracy / Making offensive jokes is a core and basic form of freedom situated within the level of social reality that everything called democracy stands on and springs out of; this is to imply that freedom is more important than democracy and democracy is actually made of freedom rather than the other way around
Sightings
- Nothing is more democratic than to have the high and mighty lampooned and spoofed (Hustler v. Falwell) ; Hustler Magazine and Larry C. Flynt, Petitioners v. Jerry Falwell [1] [2]
- Trey and I are attracted to that like flies to honey. Oh, that's where the taboo is? [3]
- South Park is freedom of criticism / South Park getting to make a corporate product is people having freedom of speech and criticism [4] -> so many people are praising this incident of South Park challenging Donald Trump but it's like... what kind of Western-Marxism are you people getting at. that's a tiny chunk of the country having the ability to challenge the country's own president while most people can't do anything. a tiny chunk of the country with the ability to surround itself with an army of lawyers gets to challenge the president while regular people have to hide from their own relatives and neighbors and town business owners to avoid being involved in an imminent blood feud between the Republican-party nation and the Democratic-party nation which is not well contained by any form of Liberal-republican law and is barely being contained whatsoever by culture itself and "culturocracy". why does anyone think this is a victory for anything. like, anything. when I see this incident I wanna go into a South Park voice and South-Park the South Park incident.
- South Park is freedom of criticism / South Park just reaffirmed they're leading the fight for real free speech (video title) [5]
- Mimi and Eunice [6] -> yeah, this belongs here. for Nina Paley, being able to make bad jokes about trans women is Freedom.
Humor is legally sound
- If speech isn't offensive, you can never prove it deserves free speech protections -> it's weird how most of the time free speech discussions revolve around speech that outright offends somebody, and how when something is offensive it always seems to have a slam dunk case to prove it's okay. people who don't really like South Park suddenly got behind it when it was slamming Trump. Drawn Together got to air basically because it was offensive, while many other things that are similar to other things get hit with lawsuits, and few of them ever get an adequate defense.
- TV channels with total free speech are generally safer than social platforms with total free speech -> I think this is true, at least mostly, but it's worth asking why. I feel like to some extent something that's an entire business like an animation studio or a room of TV executives has an incentive to think about what is worth creating — what actually has a point to keep putting out week after week, and what betrays the overall goal of the organization. the same isn't really true for arbitrary individual human beings, who will never have a Spanishness Office inside them that's inherently accountable to outside forces.
Humor is government by the people
- Humor is a form of government / (9k) -> I hate this proposition because I know it's not true but I have a very hard time disproving it because I don't even know what's the best concrete place to start.
- Humor is a form of government / (9k) -> my first thoughts here... humor can be used by literally anyone with any point of view, and it can be used to discourage things that are normal or harmless if enough people subjectively decide they're awkward. trans women have been the subject of terrible jokes for decades and decades, all intended to make them go away. "global warming" has also been a very frequent subject of jokes. and people who are told that hateful jokes aren't funny generally don't change their minds ...
humor is about as democratic as impeaching Donald Trump, because it has done about as much to get him out of office. - Humor is not a form of government / I've never watched South Park (Donald Trump) [7]
- If humor is a form of government, then it can outlaw protests / If humor is a form of government, then protesting can be outlawed and suppressed simply by calling frivolous protests "actually stupid" / (9k)
- Humor is a form of government -> to claim that humor is "democratic" seems to be using a definition where "democracy" has nothing to do with giving the people any power to govern each other (so, democracy is not government of the people by the people and for the people), and in fact is almost synonymous with freedom; as people have more and more freedom there is democracy, but when people are actually given the power to govern the people that has nothing to do with democracy.
Offensive jokes are Leninism
- Slavoj Žižek is a Communist / I'm a Communist, not a Socialist (Slavoj Žižek)
- Any philosophy is admirable as long as you're committed to it (Slavoj Žižek) -> one of the most Trotskyist things anyone has ever said that also contained no Marxism.
- Any philosophy is admirable as long as you're committed to it -> there are several ways to read this statement.
A) it is a Trotskyist statement; it says that if Stalin's government doesn't understand Trotskyism it doesn't mean it's actually bad, and it's up to Trotskyists to assemble all the Materialist analysis and winning strategies to show they're actually correct.
B) it is an individualist anarchist statement; it says that all individuals are free to believe whatever they want to as long as they've found a way that nobody will stop them.
C) it is a Liberal-republican statement; it's that old "I'll defend to the death your right to say it" thing, and it says that B is so good that a central government should defend everyone doing it from everyone else doing it. which sure suggests something strange about the nature of Liberal-republicanism.
D) it is a blue-anarchist or agorist statement; it is a statement made by somebody that believes that the sum of non-aggressive activities will more or less create a new informal State that outlaws Liberal-republicanism similar to how Liberal-republicanism or Bolshevism created a State.
I'm strongly guessing that taken in its real-life context it's actually D. - eastern Europeans insulting each other (Žižek) [8] archive.is / eastern Europeans and offensive jokes involving shared nationality ; eastern Europeans and crude jokes -> I believe this happened. but Žižek genuinely doesn't understand that these are nationalities and nationalities are different from racial subpopulations as a matter of scale. racial subpopulations are tied to the sheer scale of survival and people's actual struggle to be effective or ineffective at surviving; it's just an artifact of how small the populations are and that they compete over tiny spatial areas that only one group of people can inhabit. that is not true of Serbia and Croatia. Serbs aren't constantly trying to be the only people who can occupy Croatia, because countries are comically big to be doing that — except when it's Palestine. Existentialists literally don't know the difference between big things and small things.
- Trump is Žižek / Trump making crude jokes does not prove Slavoj Žižek is Donald Trump, but arguably does prove that Trump is Žižek, or, to put it more literally, that the Republican party is a countable instance of blue or brown anarchism whether charcoal anarchists want to believe that is actually considered anarchism or not / Trump making crude jokes does not prove Žižek is a Tory, but does imply that Žižek's premises are incorrect and he is not modeling what he thinks he is; Žižek claimed he was a "Communist" but if Trump does what Žižek says and is against Communism it means that what Žižek believes is not Marxism or Leninism; this is to imply that what Žižek believes is blue anarchism / (9k)
Humor is a form of government + Donald Trump and crude jokes = Trump is Žižek.
Offensive jokes are anarchy
- Offensive jokes are freedom, and freedom is the exact same thing as democracy / Humor is a form of government (generic) -> I think I take things really literally whenever anyone says anything, and if something doesn't make sense after I've listed out the six or so possible figurative meanings I can think of and asked if any of those is literally logically coherent with the usage I saw, then I just assume it doesn't make sense; my brain understands metaphors but only when I can figure out how they're similar literally.
so, of course when I see the word democracy I assume it would mean... democracy, as the word literally means government of the people by the people.
that isn't what it means at all. in this claim "democracy" refers to all the things excluded from the US constitution as this primeval anarchist Thing that existed before democracy was created and that operates on an entirely separate level from democracy; the definition of freedom/democracy here is like, democracy's abusive mom that says 'I made you up, behave because I can un-make you'. and whatever it is, it appears to be described by the theory of agorism, the model that society is composed of loci of non-aggression that associate together around the things they like and against the things they're afraid of and both are and aren't obligated to stop being bigoted and improve, because you can't force people to build bridges over toxic relationships but also the ability to grow loci of non-aggression is supposed to fix them. it's a mess. the fact some people think this is a new kind of society that will form later and not precisely the description of what we have now is... cute, but wrong.
Related
Edgeworth's dialectic
/ When The Subject simply is, it compels people to listen / Susie's dialectic (Deltarune) / Bartleby's dialectic (Lacanianism) / technetium rule (new metallic rule) / (9k)
Ideologies or fields
- LR / Liberal-republicanism
- Ag / agorism
- / existentialism
- / Free Culture movement (freed culture)
- / psychoanalysis
- PT / conservative comedy
- / Trotskyite conspiracies
- / meta-Marxism