Ontology:Q60,53: Difference between revisions
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{{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li> {{ArticleTitle|[S2] The life of a bisexual has at least two endings - MX / Q60,53 }} | {{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean compound"><li> {{ArticleTitle|[S2] The life of a bisexual has at least two endings - MX / Q60,53 }} | ||
<onlyinclude><dfn {{ | <onlyinclude><dfn class="{{{class|field_mdem}}} manual" data-dimension="S2" data-qid="60,53" data-numbersign="404" data-field="" data-series="" data-work="" data-chapter="" data-tale="" data-object="" data-note="" data-lexeme="">{{#if: {{{I|}}} | {{Template:{{{I}}}}} | {{IS2/MX}} }}{{#if: {{{1|}}} | [[E:Q60,53|{{{1}}}]] | [[E:Q60,53|The life of a bisexual has at least two endings]] }}{{#if: {{{3|}}} | {{{3}}} }}{{#if: {{{2|}}} | <ins class="edition-sense term"> ([[E:Q60,53/{{{2}}}|{{{2}}}]]<nowiki />)</ins> }}{{WaveScore|sum=1|quilt=1|ply=1|enddfn=1}}</onlyinclude> | ||
</li></ol><!-- change summary template: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN|Q60,53]] --> __NOTOC__ | </li></ol><!-- change summary template: copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN|Q60,53]] --> __NOTOC__ | ||
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<dl class="wikitable hue"> | <dl class="wikitable hue"> | ||
{{HueClaim |P=item type| {{Template:S2}} }} | {{HueClaim |P=item type| {{Template:S2}} }} | ||
{{HueRoster|EP=PPPA/L| {{E: | {{HueRoster|EP=PPPA/L|lang=en| {{E:Q60,53}} | {{E:Q60,53/ES}} | [[E:The life of a bisexual has at least two endings]] }} | ||
{{HueClaim |EP=PPPA| [[E:The biography of a bisexual has at least two possible endings|The biography of a bisexual has at least two possible endings]] }} | {{HueClaim |EP=PPPA|lang=en| [[E:The biography of a bisexual has at least two possible endings|The biography of a bisexual has at least two possible endings]] | Any character in a love triangle has a biography with two potential endings | If there exists any particular individual "Graystripe" and any two other individuals "Silverstream" and "Millie" that are potential partners, <em>at the moment this statement is accurate</em> Graystripe's story has more than one potential ending ({{book|Warriors|E=Warrior cats}}; in context Graystripe is male while Silverstream and Millie are both female) | If there exists any particular indiviudal "Asgore" and any two other individuals "Toriel" and "Rudy", Asgore's story has more than one potential ending ({{book|Deltarune|E=Deltarune}}; Asgore and Rudy are men, Toriel is a woman; there is also a third option where Asgore stays divorced) }} | ||
{{HueRoster|EP=P42| -- }} <!-- en: QID references --> | {{HueRoster|EP=P42| -- }} <!-- en: QID references --> | ||
{{HueRoster|EP=P34| {{E:Q618/MX|general-sense historical materialism}} | causality in biographical narratives [[Category:Causality in fiction ontology]] }} <!-- en: field --> | {{HueRoster|EP=P34| {{E:Q618/MX|general-sense historical materialism}} | causality in biographical narratives [[Category:Causality in fiction ontology]] }} <!-- en: field --> | ||
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{{HueRoster|EP=P4| -- }} <!-- en: case of --> | {{HueRoster|EP=P4| -- }} <!-- en: case of --> | ||
{{HueRoster|EP=P5| -- }} <!-- en: super-case of --> | {{HueRoster|EP=P5| -- }} <!-- en: super-case of --> | ||
{{HueRoster|P=anti-case of| LGBT+ erasure [[Category:LGBT+ erasure ontology]] }} <!-- en: anti-case of --> | |||
{{HueRoster|P=prototype notes| {{TTS|tts=revision 81-68|revision 81,68|oldid=8168}} }} | |||
</dl> | </dl> | ||
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</dl> | </dl> | ||
== | === Wavebuilder characterizations === | ||
< | <dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three"> | ||
< | {{WaveRoute| Graystripe (Warriors) | {{E:Q618/Fy|only one ending...?}} | {{E:Q60,53}} }} <!-- en: Along With, Produces ?? ?? --> | ||
{{WaveRoute| Asgore (Deltarune) | {{E:Q618/Fy| only one ending...?}} | {{E:Q60,53}} }} | |||
</dl> | |||
== Background == | |||
In the 2020s, it has been bizarrely rampant within the fanbase for {{book|Undertale}} and {{book|Deltarune}} to claim that "just like {{book|Deltarune}}", human lives somehow "have only one ending". This claim is strangely dubious when one has thought about it for even a few minutes. Simply looking at {{book|Undertale}}, the game has three major endings, and the good endings of the game only have impact because the bad endings were equally possible and did not happen. To say that {{book|Deltarune}} is relatable to its fans because it purportedly has one ending fails to take into account why {{book|Undertale}} can be relatable even though it isn't restricted to one ending, and in fact was wildly relatable to huge numbers of people. So, is it really true that {{book|Deltarune}}, or any particular fictional narrative, is relatable to people because the narrative has one ending and every individual life that could ever be spoken about has one ending? | |||
One way to probe and unravel this question is to point out a simple fact about {{book|Undertale}} fans: many {{book|Undertale}} and {{book|Deltarune}} fans are [[E:LGBT+|queer]]. To phrase this another more specific way, some {{book|Deltarune}} fans are gay, and some {{book|Deltarune}} fans are bisexual. A bisexual person is capable of [[E:family unit|getting married]] to a person who is the same sex or a person who is not clearly the same sex. For some hypothetical bisexual woman Alice, if Alice knows two people named Bobbie and Carl, and has been going back and forth between which one she likes better, Alice's life has two possible endings in the sense of what is [[Term:epistemic possibility|epistemically possible]] at that moment in time. Is Alice ending up with Bobbie the exact same ending as Alice ending up with Carl? It can be argued that each hypothetical future could be qualitatively different enough that these would outright be two different lives, two different experiences, and two different endings to Alice's story. At any given moment it is not possible to know exactly what each of the futures would be like, or which of the futures would be "better". If Alice's choices contribute to her future, she does not necessarily select her future in the sense of having [[E:Free Will|the sheer willpower]] to [[E:chaos magic|manifest]] getting the single objectively correct partner. However, the simple fact Alice is bisexual makes it indisputable that Alice has the potential to end up with two different people who each have different genders, and who probably have different names and personalities. Alice could write two different autobiographies, perhaps three or four depending on how many people she has actually met, and each hypothetical book would have different contents from the beginning of the book to the end of the book.<ref group="n" name="poly" /> The question then becomes, is a book with totally different contents a book with a different ending? | |||
Here this particular proposition cannot quite make it to the finish line on its own. It is still possible for someone to try to take two books and claim that, for instance, if one {{book|Warriors|E=Warrior cats}} book is about [[redlink|Firestar]] and one book is about [[redlink|Tigerstar]], if both characters eventually died then both books have the same ending. A fan of the {{book|Warriors}} series would know that Tigerstar died a drastically different death from Firestar and led a drastically different life, but someone who has not read the books could easily assume that they are both cats living in a tribal society [[Term:sealioning|and ask]] how their lives could possibly be any different whatsoever. | |||
At this point the best answer may be to cut to the chase and ask if [[E:A book that ends with slavery is a different ending than a book which ends without slavery|two books which start with the same society and end in completely different societies]] have different endings. This is harder to argue against. Even in the nicest example, it would not be easy for someone to argue that a {{book|Warriors}} book where ShadowClan rules the whole forest as one big monarchy over the other tribes has the same ending as a book where all the tribes stay independent. At a certain point, there really has to be a line drawn saying that books really do have different kinds of endings. The challenge, in a world where so many people interpret books in Idealist ways, is in getting people to settle onto mostly-objective Materialist criteria for what different kinds of endings are. If you can successfully get people to settle onto a material criterion of what a different ending is, it will become easier to argue whether two narratives each about individuals in fact have different endings. | |||
== Usage notes == | == Usage notes == | ||
=== Color swatch === | |||
This proposition may be used with the blue <code>ES</code> swatch to represent arguing that gay or bisexual relationships are possible endings to a story for the simple sake of LGBT+ people existing and "having the right to exist in media", as opposed to for the sake of making an argument for [[:Category:Historical materialism ontology (general-sense)|general-sense historical materialism]] that different causal processes inside narratives lead to different results. | |||
== Footnotes == | |||
<references group="n"> | |||
<ref name="poly">If there exists a possible scenario where Alice ends up in [[E:polyamory|a group marriage consisting of 4 parents]], then the number of possible biographies she could write only increases.</ref> | |||
</references> | |||
<!-- | <!-- | ||
Latest revision as of 06:24, 17 August 2025
- pronounced [MX]The life of a bisexual has at least two endings 1-1-1
Core characteristics[edit]
- item type
- S2 (pronounced C) 1-1-1
- pronounced [P] label [string] (L)
- pronounced [MX]The life of a bisexual has at least two endings 1-1-1
- pronounced [S2]The life of a bisexual has at least two endings (ES) 1-1-1
- E:The life of a bisexual has at least two endings
- pronounced [P] alias (en) [string]
- The biography of a bisexual has at least two possible endings
- Any character in a love triangle has a biography with two potential endings
- If there exists any particular individual "Graystripe" and any two other individuals "Silverstream" and "Millie" that are potential partners, at the moment this statement is accurate Graystripe's story has more than one potential ending (Warriors; in context Graystripe is male while Silverstream and Millie are both female)
- If there exists any particular indiviudal "Asgore" and any two other individuals "Toriel" and "Rudy", Asgore's story has more than one potential ending (Deltarune; Asgore and Rudy are men, Toriel is a woman; there is also a third option where Asgore stays divorced)
- QID references [Item] 1-1-1
- --
- field, scope, or group [Item]
- sub-case of [Item]
- --
- case of [Item]
- --
- super-case of [Item]
- --
- anti-case of
- LGBT+ erasure
- prototype notes
Components[edit]
- model combines claims
- --
Use in thesis portals[edit]
- appears in work [Item]
- --
Wavebuilder combinations[edit]
- pronounced [P] pronounced Wavebuilder: forms result [Item]
- --
- along with [Item]
- --
Wavebuilder characterizations[edit]
- pronounced Wavebuilder: route [Item]
- pronounced [MX]The life of a bisexual has at least two endings 1-1-1
- along with [Item]
- Graystripe (Warriors)
- forming from [Item]
- Graystripe (Warriors)
- only one ending...? (proposed; Fy) 1-1-1
- pronounced [MX]The life of a bisexual has at least two endings 1-1-1
- pronounced Wavebuilder: route [Item]
- pronounced [MX]The life of a bisexual has at least two endings 1-1-1
- along with [Item]
- Asgore (Deltarune)
- forming from [Item]
- Asgore (Deltarune)
- only one ending...? (proposed; Fy) 1-1-1
- pronounced [MX]The life of a bisexual has at least two endings 1-1-1
Background[edit]
In the 2020s, it has been bizarrely rampant within the fanbase for Undertale and Deltarune to claim that "just like Deltarune", human lives somehow "have only one ending". This claim is strangely dubious when one has thought about it for even a few minutes. Simply looking at Undertale, the game has three major endings, and the good endings of the game only have impact because the bad endings were equally possible and did not happen. To say that Deltarune is relatable to its fans because it purportedly has one ending fails to take into account why Undertale can be relatable even though it isn't restricted to one ending, and in fact was wildly relatable to huge numbers of people. So, is it really true that Deltarune, or any particular fictional narrative, is relatable to people because the narrative has one ending and every individual life that could ever be spoken about has one ending?
One way to probe and unravel this question is to point out a simple fact about Undertale fans: many Undertale and Deltarune fans are queer. To phrase this another more specific way, some Deltarune fans are gay, and some Deltarune fans are bisexual. A bisexual person is capable of getting married to a person who is the same sex or a person who is not clearly the same sex. For some hypothetical bisexual woman Alice, if Alice knows two people named Bobbie and Carl, and has been going back and forth between which one she likes better, Alice's life has two possible endings in the sense of what is epistemically possible at that moment in time. Is Alice ending up with Bobbie the exact same ending as Alice ending up with Carl? It can be argued that each hypothetical future could be qualitatively different enough that these would outright be two different lives, two different experiences, and two different endings to Alice's story. At any given moment it is not possible to know exactly what each of the futures would be like, or which of the futures would be "better". If Alice's choices contribute to her future, she does not necessarily select her future in the sense of having the sheer willpower to manifest getting the single objectively correct partner. However, the simple fact Alice is bisexual makes it indisputable that Alice has the potential to end up with two different people who each have different genders, and who probably have different names and personalities. Alice could write two different autobiographies, perhaps three or four depending on how many people she has actually met, and each hypothetical book would have different contents from the beginning of the book to the end of the book.[n 1] The question then becomes, is a book with totally different contents a book with a different ending?
Here this particular proposition cannot quite make it to the finish line on its own. It is still possible for someone to try to take two books and claim that, for instance, if one Warriors book is about Firestar and one book is about Tigerstar, if both characters eventually died then both books have the same ending. A fan of the Warriors series would know that Tigerstar died a drastically different death from Firestar and led a drastically different life, but someone who has not read the books could easily assume that they are both cats living in a tribal society and ask how their lives could possibly be any different whatsoever.
At this point the best answer may be to cut to the chase and ask if two books which start with the same society and end in completely different societies have different endings. This is harder to argue against. Even in the nicest example, it would not be easy for someone to argue that a Warriors book where ShadowClan rules the whole forest as one big monarchy over the other tribes has the same ending as a book where all the tribes stay independent. At a certain point, there really has to be a line drawn saying that books really do have different kinds of endings. The challenge, in a world where so many people interpret books in Idealist ways, is in getting people to settle onto mostly-objective Materialist criteria for what different kinds of endings are. If you can successfully get people to settle onto a material criterion of what a different ending is, it will become easier to argue whether two narratives each about individuals in fact have different endings.
Usage notes[edit]
Color swatch[edit]
This proposition may be used with the blue ES swatch to represent arguing that gay or bisexual relationships are possible endings to a story for the simple sake of LGBT+ people existing and "having the right to exist in media", as opposed to for the sake of making an argument for general-sense historical materialism that different causal processes inside narratives lead to different results.
Footnotes[edit]
- ↑ If there exists a possible scenario where Alice ends up in a group marriage consisting of 4 parents, then the number of possible biographies she could write only increases.