Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q4000: Difference between revisions

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Main entries

Bolshevik-Leninism
/ Leninism (Trotsky's definition) / Marxist theories used by the original Bolsheviks (Trotskyism) -> use to mark highly specific definitions of "Leninism" in Trotskyist texts. all Trotskyist definitions of Leninism are this, and all non-Trotskyist definitions are not.
Stalinism
(corruption) / Stalinism (prejudice) -> use to mark the concept of "Stalinism" specifically as defined in Trotskyist texts, and not in any non-Trotskyist text. if you simply gather up data on this you'll realize it refers to something much more specific than you'd think it is. "Stalin's Marxism" ("Marxism-Leninism", "mainstream Marxism-Leninism") isn't actually the same thing as "Stalinism", even though in practice the concept of "Stalinism" is being used to reject Stalin's Marxism.
Stalinism (corruption) -> mark it in the red swatch when it sounds like a statement from Stalin's allies.

Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism

Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism
/ He calls it Marxism-Leninism, but it isn't really Leninism / Stalin's "Marxism" isn't a Marxist tendency; it is something other than Marxism (sense) / (9k)
Stalinism is a Thermidorian negation
/ Stalinists were Soviet Thermidor / Stalinism begins when older forms of society crush the proletarian revolution (Trotskyism) / Stalinism is a Thermidorian negation of Bolshevism; this is to imply it is similar to when the Jacobins were defeated in the French Revolution [1] -> this is the main proposition for what Stalinism "is" and why it existed.
Stalin's Marxism is over -> [old] ~~had some vanishing chance of being true in 1940, not very believable these days~~
Trotskyism is over -> [old] why is it that all Trotskyists refuse to believe this while most or all mainstream Marxist-Leninists believe it and about half of all center-Liberals and Existentialists believe it? this should be less controversial than "Bolshevism is over". if Trotskyism isn't materially possible but mainstream Marxism-Leninism is, you'd think that nearly everyone would be unanimous about the first part of that, because advocating for Trotskyism isn't advantageous to either Existentialists or mainstream Marxist-Leninists.
Trotskyism is over -> so........ it's not. successful or unsuccessful, it's less dead than Stalinist parties.

Moscow Trials

Every Trotskyite Stalin eliminated was a Leninist [2] -> read Trotskyist talks really closely and you see the assumptions between the lines. past Trotsky and Zinoviev (? if he even was, which I usually assume he wasn't.) ~~practically none~~ only a few of the Trotskyites were Leninists or "allies of the world revolution" — which, sure, they only have to be workers if the conditions are right, but knowing how many capitalists were in there, you'd have a stronger claim if they were Leninists. can you build a revolution with enough Gramscis? who knows, but if you have anything less the chances don't look good.
Most members of early Trotskyism were not Leninists -> so, I've found out the ICFI has been actually dissecting Trotskyism to separate parts of it that are basically Menshevism from parts of it that can reasonably be called Leninism. it looks like I was perfectly on point with this one, just not for the right reasons.
[Stalin as] the great negator and principal enemy of the proletarian revolution (Breton) [3] -> this is not the same entry as "Stalin was the worst", which to me is a moral claim. this is more like a class analysis claim or a claim about whether Stalinism or Trotskyism is the real Leninism. the truth value in question here isn't "Good"/"Evil", but "Materially Accurate" or "Proletarian" versus not.
Moscow Trials + ?? = this.
Spare the original Bolsheviks
/ Don't kill original Bolsheviks / Trotsky and/or other Trotskyist theorists are members of Leninism (non-revisionist Marxism; the best form of Marxism; proletarian revolution), so you cannot kill them / the great negator and principal enemy of the proletarian revolution -> I will never stop saying the early Soviet Union is terribly interesting, but the more you study this stuff the more it starts to sound like Catholics and Protestants arguing over Northern Ireland with no real answer in sight.

Abandon Trotsky, and Bolshevism has failed + Moscow Trials = this.
We live in a post-Trotsky world + ?? = this.

Positions or errors considered Stalinism

Isolation preserves the USSR
/ Isolation will not kill the USSR / The USSR can perish from military intervention but never from its own isolation (Trotskyism onto Stalin & Bukharin) [4] -> I think if we were speaking of Stalinism as "errors away from Trotskyism", this is one of the biggest ones. Trotskyists really don't like Stalin doing anything that undermines the Fourth International, and it all starts at socialism in one country as one of the structural elements of Stalinism's overall economic base.

it seems that that country structure historically leads to strain on Communist Internationals and tears them apart period. so it only follows that Trotskyists will realize that a country structure that destroys all Communist Internationals will destroy the Fourth International and ultimately try to eliminate Trotskyism for trying to preserve it.

Ideologies or fields

pronounced Fourth / Trotskyism
pronounced M-L / Stalinism (Soviet Union)
pronounced M-L / Stalin's Marxism (2020s)
pronounced Fourth onto L-R / Trotskyism onto Menshevism

Full title for bookmarks (optional)

[9k] Bolshevik-Leninism - Q4000 ; Stalinism , is a Thermidorian negation - Q4001;40,01;4,0,0,1 ; Isolation preserves the USSR , will not kill the USSR ; great negator and principal enemy of the proletarian revolution

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{NextNineThousand|PPPA=Bolshevik-Leninism|User=RD|E=Q4000|Contents=y}}
+{{NextNineThousand|PPPA=Bolshevik-Leninism|User=RD|E=Q4000, Q4001|Contents=y}}
 == Main entries ==
 {{HueCSS}}<ol class="hue clean">
-{{li|I=S1/IV|Q=4000|Q2=4000|h4= Bolshevik-Leninism }} / Leninism (Trotsky's definition) / Marxist theories used by the original Bolsheviks (Trotskyism)  ->  use to mark highly specific definitions of "Leninism" in Trotskyist texts. all Trotskyist definitions of Leninism are this, and all non-Trotskyist definitions are not.
+{{li|start=y|I=S1/IV|Q=4000|Q2=4000|h4= Bolshevik-Leninism }} / Leninism (Trotsky's definition) / Marxist theories used by the original Bolsheviks (Trotskyism)  ->  use to mark highly specific definitions of "Leninism" in Trotskyist texts. all Trotskyist definitions of Leninism are this, and all non-Trotskyist definitions are not.
+{{li|tradition=|I=S1/IV|Q=4001|Q2=4001|h4 = Stalinism }} (corruption) / Stalinism (prejudice)  ->  use to mark the concept of "Stalinism" specifically as defined in Trotskyist texts, and not in any non-Trotskyist text. if you simply gather up data on this you'll realize it refers to something much more specific than you'd think it is. "Stalin's Marxism" ("Marxism-Leninism", "mainstream Marxism-Leninism") isn't actually the same thing as "Stalinism", even though in practice the concept of "Stalinism" {{em|is}} being used to reject Stalin's Marxism.
+{{li|I=S1/ML|tradition=|Q=4001|Q2=4001}}Stalinism (corruption)  ->  mark it in the red swatch when it sounds like a statement from Stalin's allies.
 </li></ol>
 == Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism ==
 <ol class="hue clean">
@@ Line 12: / Line 15: @@
 {{li|start=y|I=S2/IV|tradition=|Q=4002|Q2=4002|h4= [[E:Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism|Stalin's Marxism isn't Leninism]] }} / He calls it Marxism-Leninism, but it isn't really Leninism / Stalin's "Marxism" isn't a Marxist tendency; it is something other than Marxism (sense) / ([[User:RD/9k/Q28,92|9k]])
-{{li|I=S2/IV|tradition=|Q=41,84|Q2=4184|h4= Stalinism is a Thermidorian negation }} / Stalinists were Soviet Thermidor / Stalinism begins when older forms of society crush the proletarian revolution (Trotskyism) / Stalinism is a Thermidorian negation of Bolshevism; this is to imply it is similar to when the Jacobins were defeated in the French Revolution [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2008/10/stal-o20.html]
+{{li|I=S2/IV|tradition=|Q=41,84|Q2=4184|h4= Stalinism is a Thermidorian negation }} / Stalinists were Soviet Thermidor / Stalinism begins when older forms of society crush the proletarian revolution (Trotskyism) / Stalinism is a Thermidorian negation of Bolshevism; this is to imply it is similar to when the Jacobins were defeated in the French Revolution [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2008/10/stal-o20.html]  ->  this is the main proposition for what Stalinism "is" and why it existed.
 {{li|I=S2/IV|tradition=|Q=49,90|Q2=4990|h4=}}Stalin's Marxism is over <!-- / Stalin Thought is over -->  ->  [old] <s>had some vanishing chance of being true in 1940, not very believable these days</s>
@@ Line 21: / Line 24: @@
 </li></ol>
+== Moscow Trials ==
+<ol class="hue clean">
+{{li|start=y|I=F2/IV|Q=42,03|Q2=4203}}Every Trotskyite Stalin eliminated was a Leninist {{YouTube|DS8s6j5gVEo}}  ->  read Trotskyist talks really closely and you see the assumptions between the lines. past Trotsky and Zinoviev (? if he even was, which I usually assume he wasn't.) <del>practically none</del> only a few of the Trotskyites were Leninists or "allies of the world revolution" — which, sure, they only have to be workers if the conditions are right, but knowing how many capitalists were in there, you'd have a stronger claim if they were Leninists. can you build a revolution with enough Gramscis? who knows, but if you have anything less the chances don't look good.
+{{li|I=S2/IV/LR|Q=42,03|Q2=4203}}Most members of early Trotskyism were not Leninists  ->  so, I've found out the ICFI has been actually dissecting Trotskyism to separate parts of it that are basically Menshevism from parts of it that can reasonably be called Leninism. it looks like I was perfectly on point with this one, just not for the right reasons.
+{{li|I=S1/IV|Q=40,98|Q2=4098}}[Stalin as] the great negator and principal enemy of the proletarian revolution (Breton) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1997/06/bre2-j16.html]  ->  this is not the same entry as "[[E:Stalin was the worst|Stalin was the worst]]", which to me is a moral claim. this is more like a class analysis claim or a claim about whether Stalinism or Trotskyism is the real Leninism. the truth value in question here isn't "Good"/"Evil", but "Materially Accurate" or "Proletarian" versus not.<br/>
+Moscow Trials + ?? = this.
+{{li|I=S2/IV|Q=40,98|Q2=4098|h4= Spare the original Bolsheviks }} / Don't kill original Bolsheviks / Trotsky and/or other Trotskyist theorists are members of Leninism (non-revisionist Marxism; the best form of Marxism; proletarian revolution), so you cannot kill them / the great negator and principal enemy of the proletarian revolution  ->  I will never stop saying the early Soviet Union is terribly interesting, but the more you study this stuff the more it starts to sound like Catholics and Protestants arguing over Northern Ireland with no real answer in sight.<br/>
+Abandon Trotsky, and Bolshevism has failed + Moscow Trials = this.<br/>
+We live in a post-Trotsky world + ?? = this.
+</li></ol>
+== Positions or errors considered Stalinism ==
+<ol class="hue clean">
+{{li|start=y|I=F2/ML|tradition=|Q=26,75|Q2=2675|h4= Isolation preserves the USSR }} / Isolation will not kill the USSR / The USSR can perish from military intervention but never from its own isolation (Trotskyism onto Stalin & Bukharin) [https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1928/3rd/ti02.htm]  ->  I think if we were speaking of Stalinism as "errors away from Trotskyism", this is one of the biggest ones. Trotskyists really don't like Stalin doing anything that undermines the Fourth International, and it all starts at [[E:socialism in one country|socialism in one country]] as one of the structural elements of [[E:Stalin's Marxism|Stalinism's]] overall economic base.<br/>
+it seems that that country structure historically leads to strain on Communist Internationals and tears them apart period. so it only follows that Trotskyists will realize that a country structure that destroys all Communist Internationals will destroy the Fourth International and ultimately try to eliminate Trotskyism for trying to preserve it.
+</li></ol>
 == Related ==
-<!--
 <ol class="hue clean">
-</li></ol> -->
+{{li|start=y|I=S1/IV|Q=49,17|Q2=4917|h4 = Russian Revolution according to Trotskyists }} / ([[User:RD/9k/Q49,17|9k]])
+{{li|I=F2/IV|Q=40,97|Q2=4097|h4= Stalin was the worst }} / The Moscow Trials exposed Stalin as the dirtiest, most criminal and most repulsive figure in history (Trotsky) / ({{9k|RD/Q642}})
+</li></ol><!--
+== Wavebuilder combinations ==
+<dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three">
+{{WaveBuild| -- | -- | -- }}  -- en: Along With, Produces  ??  ??
+{{E:Q618/IV|?}} --
+</dl>-->
 == Ideologies or fields ==
@@ Line 35: / Line 69: @@
 {{li|I=Z1/LR |Q=41,04 |Q2=4104}}{{TTS|IV onto LR|Fourth onto L-R}} / Trotskyism onto Menshevism
 </li></ol>
+== Full title for bookmarks (optional) ==
+<pre>[9k] Bolshevik-Leninism - Q4000 ; Stalinism , is a Thermidorian negation - Q4001;40,01;4,0,0,1 ; Isolation preserves the USSR , will not kill the USSR ; great negator and principal enemy of the proletarian revolution</pre>
 [[Category:Next nine thousand (RD)]]  <!-- page ends here.  TTS-unfriendly numbers incoming
-redirects:   [[User:RD/9k/Q4000]]
+redirects or titles:
-duplication hint:   copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN|9k/Q4000]] -->
+   [[User:RD/9k/Q4000]]
+   [[User:RD/9k/Q4001]] [[Ontology talk:9k/RD/Q4001]]
+duplication hint:   copy markup from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN|Q4000]] -->