Ontology:Q66,58: Difference between revisions

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pronounced 66,58. (S2)pronounced (Fy) (S2): Playing out of order gives a new ending (Deltarune) 1-1-1

Core characteristics

item type: S 1-1-1
pronounced P: label [string] (L): pronounced 66,58. (S2)pronounced (Fy) (S2): Playing out of order gives a new ending (Deltarune) 1-1-1; E:InAnyOrderAtAll
pronounced P: alias (en) [string]: Playing chapters out of order gives a new ending; Deltarune has a unique ending for playing the chapters out of order; The single ending of Deltarune will come from playing the chapters out of order (generic)
QID references [Item] 1-1-1: --
field, scope, or group [Item]: pronounced 76,17. (Z) pronounced (Z): Deltarune (2018-) 1-1-1
sub-case of [Item]: --
case of [Item]: Deltarune fan theory
topic or subject [Item] (TS): --
truth values: unknown
difficulty to refute: unknown
difficulty to falsify: unknown

Wavebuilder combinations

pronounced P: pronounced Wave-builder: forms result [Item]

: --
along with [Item]: --
forming from [Item]: --; --; --

Wavebuilder characterizations

pronounced Wave-builder: route [Item]

: --
along with [Item]: --
forming from [Item]: --; --; --

Background

In Deltarune chapter 3, Kris can end up in a hidden place called "Mancountry" where the Forgotten Man is standing behind a tree. The Forgotten Man gives a schedule of where he will be on each day:

On Thursday I go to sell the donuts.

On Friday, I toss the leftovers in the dumpster.

On Saturday, I let it cool on the windowsill.

On Sunday, I harvest the wheat.

Hold your breath, head to the left, and count backwards to 100

Did you remember to write that down?

When put in a causal order, these instructions would rearrange Deltarune's chapters as follows:

On Sunday, I harvest the wheat. [Chapter 5]

On Saturday, I let it cool on the windowsill. [Chapter 4]

On Thursday I go to sell the donuts. [Chapter 1]

On Friday, I toss the leftovers in the dumpster. [Chapter 2]

Hold your breath, head to the left, and count backwards to 100 [Chapter 3?]

Leading up to the release of Chapter 3, a particular Deltarune newsletter contained the phrase "in that order, or in any order at all". As well, in Chapter 4, Gerson makes several comments about retelling stories and how Dragon Blazers and Lord of the Hammer and the Prophecy are all altered versions of each other, while Susie may be able to make a better ending with "the white pen of hope". Taken together, these concepts might suggest that to get a better ending Deltarune is supposed to be rearranged.

One interpretation of these instructions is that they only tell where to find all the eggs for players that have not found all of them. Another interpretation is that they actually specify some sort of route through Deltarune which will involve playing chapters out of order to unlock some sort of unknown thing in chapters before them. There could theoretically be some hidden thing in Chapter 5 that would be good to have while going back to Chapter 4, and something in Chapter 4 that would be good to have in Chapter 1 or 2. This unlockable thing may not be directly related to the eggs, as much as just the rearranged order of the chapters.

This proposition is the theory that there is a particular ending or end result to the game unlocked by playing the chapters out of order which a new player would not be able to get without backtracking to previous chapters.

One possibility is that this order is referring to the Shadow Crystals. A player can't easily solve the Chapter 1 key puzzle without already having completed Chapter 1 and seen the castle; this would be a decent reason to play Chapter 4 and then go back to Chapter 1. Chapters 1 and 2 would be in order because they contain Jevil and Spamton, and Jevil's item is good to have against Spamton but he is also difficult enough it might make more sense to go back to Chapter 4 and fight Gerson first. Chapter 3 could be at the end because the Forgotten Man and the hidden Nightmare encounter in that chapter are each the hardest to find respective to other chapters. The only problem with this solution is that it might make more sense if the Forgotten Man's guide had been given earlier in the order than the end, when the player should have already found everything — though if it is only a checklist this might be justified.

One possibility which is likely ruled out is that playing the chapters out of order is connected to the Weird Route. The Weird Route has a more or less linear causality inside it, directly going from one chapter to another. Playing Chapter 3 would give the hint that the Weird Route exists, but the Forgotten Man's order gives Chapter 3 at the end and Chapter 4 first.

Falsification criteria

There are not enough chapters of Deltarune released to say whether this claim is true or false.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{ArticleTitle|[S2] Playing out of order gives a new ending / Fy / UTDR / Q618|NoContents=y}}
+{{ArticleTitle|[S2] Playing out of order gives a new ending / Fy / UTDR / Q66,58|NoContents=y}}
-<includeonly><onlyinclude><dfn {{IS2/Fy/class}} data-qid="618"><data data-numbersign="404" data-series="" data-work="Deltarune" data-lexeme=""></data>{{IS2/Fy}}[[E:Q618|Playing out of order gives a new ending]]{{#if: {{{3|}}} | {{{3}}} | <ins class="note series_deltarune"> (<cite>Deltarune</cite>)</ins> }}{{#if: {{{2|}}} | <ins class="edition-sense term"> ([[E:InAnyOrderAtAll/{{{2}}}|{{{2}}}]]<nowiki />)</ins> }}{{WaveScore|sum=1|quilt=1|ply=1|enddfn=1}}</onlyinclude></includeonly>{{HueNumberPreview|E=InAnyOrderAtAll}}<!--
+<includeonly><onlyinclude><dfn {{IS2/Fy/class}} data-qid="66,58"><data data-numbersign="404" data-series="" data-work="Deltarune" data-lexeme=""></data>{{IS2/Fy|Q=66,58}}[[E:Q66,58|Playing out of order gives a new ending]]{{#if: {{{3|}}} | {{{3}}} | <ins class="note series_deltarune"> (<cite>Deltarune</cite>)</ins> }}{{#if: {{{2|}}} | <ins class="edition-sense term"> ([[E:Q66,58/{{{2}}}|{{{2}}}]]<nowiki />)</ins> }}{{WaveScore|sum=1|quilt=1|ply=1|enddfn=1}}</onlyinclude></includeonly>{{HueNumberPreview|E=Q66,58}}<!--
-duplication hint:  copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN|Q618]] -->
+duplication hint:  copy or update fake Item from [[Special:PermanentLink/NNNN|Q66,58]] -->
 == Core characteristics ==
@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 <dl class="wikitable hue series_undertale-deltarune">
 {{HueClaim |P=item type| {{Template:S1}} }}
-{{HueRoster|EP=PPPA/L|lang=en| {{E:InAnyOrderAtAll}} | [[E:InAnyOrderAtAll]]  }}
+{{HueRoster|EP=PPPA/L|lang=en| {{E:Q66,58}} | [[E:InAnyOrderAtAll]]  }}
 {{HueRoster|EP=PPPA|lang=en| Playing chapters out of order gives a new ending | Deltarune has a unique ending for playing the chapters out of order | The single ending of Deltarune will come from playing the chapters out of order (generic) }}
 {{HueRoster|EP=P42| -- }}  <!-- en: QID references -->
@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 {{HueRoster|EP=P4| Deltarune fan theory [[Category:Deltarune fan theories ontology]] }}  <!-- en: case of -->
 {{HueRoster|EP=P35/TS| -- }}
+{{HueRoster|P=truth values| unknown }}
+{{HueRoster|P=difficulty to refute| unknown }}
+{{HueRoster|P=difficulty to falsify| unknown }}
 </dl>
@@ Line 25: / Line 28: @@
 <dl class="wikitable hue data_wavebuild three series_undertale-deltarune">
-{{WaveRoute| -- | -- | -- }}  <!-- en: Along With, Produces  ??  ?? -->
+{{WaveRoute| -- | -- | -- }}  <!-- en: From  ??  ?? -->
 </dl>
-== [[User:Reversedragon/FirstNineThousand|Prototype]] notes ==
+== Background ==
-<ol class="hue clean data_urbanfantasy">
+In {{game|Deltarune}} chapter 3, Kris can end up in a hidden place called "Mancountry" where the [[E:forgotten man (Deltarune)|Forgotten Man]] is standing behind a tree. The Forgotten Man gives a schedule of where he will be on each day:
-<li value="618" class="field_horror" data-dimension="S2">Deltarune has a unique ending for playing the chapters out of order / The single ending of Deltarune will come from playing the chapters out of order  ->  the egg man really focused on the notion of "in any order at all". what if you used the eggs to rearrange the chapters into the order he said instead of from 1 to 7? my prediction is that the single ending of Deltarune happens only when you do this and otherwise the story simply {{em|terminates}} rather than ends. it doesn't take Noelle to creepypasta the story, Kris already creepypasta'd the story before the game booted up by endlessly avoiding the major conflicts of the story. kind of funny how fictional stories totally revolve around single characters for the world to even exist, isn't it? that's what I think is going on. the story revolving around three teenagers is a bit of silliness, a bit of book logic, but if they don't play their part then the story doesn't end and the world tears to pieces before the story actually ends. that makes a lot of sense as a way a dream could end; any number of people have had dreams that ended before the "story" inside ended. it's actually one of the more common ways for things to end — we've all had that one disappointing VHS tape that didn't catch the end of a TV show or movie, or in more recent times, maybe a video that was playing when the phone totally shut off.
-</li></ol>
-<blockquote class="bop-text">on sunday, I harvest the wheat  - chapter 5, flower field
+<blockquote class="poem wikitable">
-on saturday, I let it cool on the windowsill  - chapter 3/4, church windows?
+* {{caps|On Thursday I go to sell the donuts.}}
-on thursday I go to sell the donuts  - chapter 1, bake sale
+* {{caps|On Friday, I toss the leftovers in the dumpster.}}
-on friday, I toss the leftovers  - chapter 2, dumpster
+* {{caps|On Saturday, I let it cool on the windowsill.}}
-hold your breath, head to the left, and count backwards to 100
+* {{caps|On Sunday, I harvest the wheat.}}
+* {{caps|Hold your breath, head to the left, and count backwards to 100}}
+* {{caps|Did you remember to write that down?}}
 </blockquote>
-== Usage notes ==
+When put in a causal order, these instructions would rearrange Deltarune's chapters as follows:
+<blockquote class="poem wikitable">
+* {{caps|On Sunday, I harvest the wheat.}} [Chapter 5]
+* {{caps|On Saturday, I let it cool on the windowsill.}} [Chapter 4]
+* {{caps|On Thursday I go to sell the donuts.}} [Chapter 1]
+* {{caps|On Friday, I toss the leftovers in the dumpster.}} [Chapter 2]
+* {{caps|Hold your breath, head to the left, and count backwards to 100}} [Chapter 3?]
+</blockquote>
+Leading up to the release of Chapter 3, a particular Deltarune newsletter contained the phrase "in that order, or in any order at all". As well, in Chapter 4, Gerson makes several comments about retelling stories and how {{game|Dragon Blazers}} and {{book|Lord of the Hammer}} and the Prophecy are all altered versions of each other, while Susie may be able to make a better ending with "the white pen of hope". Taken together, these concepts might suggest that to get a better ending {{game|Deltarune}} is supposed to be rearranged.
+One interpretation of these instructions is that they only tell where to find all the eggs for players that have not found all of them. Another interpretation is that they actually specify some sort of route through {{game|Deltarune}} which will involve playing chapters out of order to unlock some sort of unknown thing in chapters before them. There could theoretically be some hidden thing in Chapter 5 that would be good to have while going back to Chapter 4, and something in Chapter 4 that would be good to have in Chapter 1 or 2. This unlockable thing may not be directly related to the eggs, as much as just the rearranged order of the chapters.
+This proposition is the theory that there is a particular ending or end result to the game unlocked by playing the chapters out of order which a new player would not be able to get without backtracking to previous chapters.
+One possibility is that this order is referring to the Shadow Crystals. A player can't easily solve the Chapter 1 key puzzle without already having completed Chapter 1 and seen the castle; this would be a decent reason to play Chapter 4 and then go back to Chapter 1. Chapters 1 and 2 would be in order because they contain Jevil and Spamton, and Jevil's item is good to have against Spamton but he is also difficult enough it might make more sense to go back to Chapter 4 and fight Gerson first. Chapter 3 could be at the end because the Forgotten Man and the hidden Nightmare encounter in that chapter are each the hardest to find respective to other chapters. The only problem with this solution is that it might make more sense if the Forgotten Man's guide had been given earlier in the order than the end, when the player should have already found everything — though if it is only a checklist this might be justified.
+One possibility which is likely ruled out is that playing the chapters out of order is connected to the Weird Route. The Weird Route has a more or less linear causality inside it, directly going from one chapter to another. Playing Chapter 3 would give the hint that the Weird Route exists, but the Forgotten Man's order gives Chapter 3 at the end and Chapter 4 first.
+=== Falsification criteria ===
+There are not enough chapters of Deltarune released to say whether this claim is true or false.
 [[Category:Items awaiting canonical ID]]
+<!-- TTS-unfriendly, search-friendly numbers:   Q6658  Q7617 -->